hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 6, 2016 9:02:48 GMT -5
Put me in the camp of wanting assistants who can recruit, recruit, and recruit some more. IF they are really good teachers, that is a bonus more than a job requirement. Jimmies and Joes > Xs and Os. All day/ every day. Tell that to UNC fans.. Or Georgetown fans, when 2 out of the last 3 years we've missed the NCAA Tournament, despite having the most highly rated recruits in the conference. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 9:22:49 GMT -5
Put me in the camp of wanting assistants who can recruit, recruit, and recruit some more. IF they are really good teachers, that is a bonus more than a job requirement. Jimmies and Joes > Xs and Os. All day/ every day. Tell that to UNC fans.. UNC lost by a buzzer beater in the National championship. Is that the team that disproves this theory? You can find examples here and there but over the course of time usually talent wins out imo. 9 players are on schedule to graduate over the next 2 years so good recruiter has to be part of the consideration. Agree Strength and Conditioning needs to be upgraded but you don't need to use a lead asst position to do that imo. I would be ok with another ace recruiter I would also be ok with a solid bench coach. Hard tofind both in 1 so will be interesting to see what direction it goes. |
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on May 6, 2016 9:33:47 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time understanding the angst a few posters are having regarding the departure of Sutton and Hardy. As we all know, the team has missed the tourney 2 of 3 years. Last year was the worst, or at least most disappointing, most of us can remember. The team simply did "not come to play" for lack of a better term the vast majority of the season. Played no D, fell behind by large margins early, and there was no chemistry. Bottom Line....we should be THRILLED that changes are happening on the coaching front. I sincerely wish the departing coaches well, but for whatever reason it did not work, and it is time for new blood. III has to get it right this time. We will see over the next year or two, if he did.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 9:38:04 GMT -5
Or Georgetown fans, when 2 out of the last 3 years we've missed the NCAA Tournament, despite having the most highly rated recruits in the conference. HB don't take this the wrong way but you watch way too much b-ball to be relying on a High School ranking as a means to evaluate the talent on this team. How many points rebounds or assts is that HS ranking producing? Is it more than Mo Watson Jr's or Roosevelt Jones' for instance? |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 6, 2016 9:42:01 GMT -5
Hard to say it's natural turnover when Sutton was actively looking for jobs & neither guy was named Asst HC, both seem to be lateral moves.. Bottom line to me is the fact that JT3 hired these coaches so if they were bad fits or not great at important parts of their jobs then that falls on him.. A lot of what's being said about Hardy & Sutton we heard about Hunter & Brennan too when they left.. Makes it hard to be confident in JT3's ability to hire and develop a solid staff.. In this thread posters are pointing out how both the roster & the staff have bad fits or are out of balance, it definitely opens eyes.. Also if JT3 & Broadus can handle the major bulk of the coaching & recruiting then why not just give Pat Jr. one spot and then use the money for the 3rd asst. on a top flight strength & conditioning coach.. Who said JT3 and Broadus can handle the bulk of the coaching and recruiting? If coaches are not a good fit, it's better that they move on. Keeping them on staff is a more concerning issue than having them leave. I would think it would take a while to figure such things out and, thus, the turnover. It's not like a coach in a new job doesn't do his best to fit in for that honeymoon period in a new job. After that, the HC probably has a bit of a grace period for a coach that doesn't fit hoping things will improve. After which, both parties realize it's time for a change. It's possible that JT3 has an issue hiring a staff that fits. We'll never know. As for the developing of staff, we can't know that either. That said, both coaches made, at worst, lateral moves so, apparently, some people think Hardy and Sutton can get it done. When I read posts in this thread that point out that 9 of 13 kids on the roster were brought in by KB, it tells me he's the primary/dominant recruiter.. Something I've been pointing out for a long while now.. We also know that the offense is run by JT3 & it's not unreasonable to think he handles much of the defense also.. So while no one said that JT3 and KB can handle those duties by themselves the actions of the recent past suggest strongly that they do.. Whether they're doing it well can be debated.. Saying we'll never know is kind of a cop out to me Tas, of course we'll never know anything for certain but that doesn't mean the information in front of us is lacking substance.. The recent past for AC's hasn't been a productive one at Gtown but I'm hopeful the next hires will be good ones.. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 9:54:30 GMT -5
Who said JT3 and Broadus can handle the bulk of the coaching and recruiting? If coaches are not a good fit, it's better that they move on. Keeping them on staff is a more concerning issue than having them leave. I would think it would take a while to figure such things out and, thus, the turnover. It's not like a coach in a new job doesn't do his best to fit in for that honeymoon period in a new job. After that, the HC probably has a bit of a grace period for a coach that doesn't fit hoping things will improve. After which, both parties realize it's time for a change. It's possible that JT3 has an issue hiring a staff that fits. We'll never know. As for the developing of staff, we can't know that either. That said, both coaches made, at worst, lateral moves so, apparently, some people think Hardy and Sutton can get it done. When I read posts in this thread that point out that 9 of 13 kids on the roster were brought in by KB, it tells me he's the primary/dominant recruiter.. Something I've been pointing out for a long while now.. We also know that the offense is run by JT3 & it's not unreasonable to think he handles much of the defense also.. So while no one said that JT3 and KB can handle those duties by themselves the actions of the recent past suggest strongly that they do.. Whether they're doing it well can be debated.. Saying we'll never know is kind of a cop out to me Tas, of course we'll never know anything for certain but that doesn't mean the information in front of us is lacking substance.. The recent past for AC's hasn't been a productive one at Gtown but I'm hopeful the next hires will be good ones.. Or that tells you he's the main person getting it done. I don't think 3 wants Broadus to have landed 9 out of 13 he just put in work. All 3 assistants had their coverage areas. I like your idea about looking at the TX coach any idea if the reason Shaka took him off was family related? Seems like an odd situation.. |
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on May 6, 2016 10:13:11 GMT -5
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on May 6, 2016 10:18:59 GMT -5
1st call should go to Jaren Sr. Absolute no brainer.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 6, 2016 10:20:04 GMT -5
I really don't get the angst about Sutton and Hardy. First of all, all indications are they were pretty good guys, and they did make contributions to the program. Both seem to have left on good terms. Assistant coaches change. The fact is that our recruiting for 2016 wasn't super-strong, and 2017 isn't off to a great start either. In fact, I recall people being concerned about our recruiting, and I'm pretty certain that if we whiff on Lykes or someone like that soon, the board will be engulfed in an uproar by some.
At this point, all this doesn't really matter. Sutton and Hardy are gone, and their replacements are far more important to our future success at this point. I do tend to be among the group that wants good recruiters, but given how weak our defense was last year, somebody who is a specialist at teaching defense plus a fair recruiter would be a good fit too.
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Post by goyahoya69 on May 6, 2016 10:21:47 GMT -5
1st call should go to Jaren Sr. Absolute no brainer. not sure how i feel about offering him a position if it is solely or mostly due to the fact that it would improve our chances of getting his son. seems like a slippery slope. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 6, 2016 10:31:53 GMT -5
When I read posts in this thread that point out that 9 of 13 kids on the roster were brought in by KB, it tells me he's the primary/dominant recruiter.. Something I've been pointing out for a long while now.. We also know that the offense is run by JT3 & it's not unreasonable to think he handles much of the defense also.. So while no one said that JT3 and KB can handle those duties by themselves the actions of the recent past suggest strongly that they do.. Whether they're doing it well can be debated.. Saying we'll never know is kind of a cop out to me Tas, of course we'll never know anything for certain but that doesn't mean the information in front of us is lacking substance.. The recent past for AC's hasn't been a productive one at Gtown but I'm hopeful the next hires will be good ones.. Or that tells you he's the main person getting it done. I don't think 3 wants Broadus to have landed 9 out of 13 he just put in work. All 3 assistants had their coverage areas. I like your idea about looking at the TX coach any idea if the reason Shaka took him off was family related? Seems like an odd situation.. I hear you Yaboy but it seems deeper than that, IMO JT3 values KB's input much more than he does other coaches.. That's not a bad thing btw, he should run point on all highly coveted recruits but the other guys should've had more input on the 2ndary kids.. From what I've read Smart didn't want to lose Jai Lucas & by extension his Pops to Dixon/TCU.. It's reported that Lucas is very well liked in Texas recruiting circles especially Houston which has become a hotbed for talent so Lucas went from dobo to 3rd asst. over Morrell.. Nothing to lose making an inquiry to him, it'd be completely outside of the box the program is in now.. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 6, 2016 10:34:15 GMT -5
1st call should go to Jaren Sr. Absolute no brainer. not sure how i feel about offering him a position if it is solely or mostly due to the fact that it would improve our chances of getting his son. seems like a slippery slope. I agree Goya.. JJ Jr. should be able to choose his college destination without the pressure of where his Pops works .. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 10:35:28 GMT -5
1st call should go to Jaren Sr. Absolute no brainer. not sure how i feel about offering him a position if it is solely or mostly due to the fact that it would improve our chances of getting his son. seems like a slippery slope. I agree but think he brings a lot more to the table than just being his sons father. His coaching resume is very solid... He's been a head coach twice, Nba champion and he also played under Popovich so a nice resource there possibly.. I doubt it happening but he's certainly qualified www.ridiculousupside.com/2014/5/19/5730176/nba-champion-jaren-jackson-hopes-for-a-coaching-return-to-the-d-leagueA: I've always reached out to colleges, too. I look for different opportunities and am open to various things. Given my background and the way I've gone through my journey, one would think that the D-League, or any level in which one has to work harder to get their shot in the NBA, would also be their level of coaching. That's the case for me. If the NBA comes, that will be great too. But I've always considered myself a leader, so I'm trying to gravitate towards an opportunity that allows me to lead, develop, and build a team throughout the year. But I'm open to growing, whether that be at either level as a head or assistant coach. It's a grind similar to what I went through as a player. I'm not going anywhere, so I'll be ready when someone comes to appreciate what I can bring to the table. ______ A: Pop is a guy who takes on pride on both ends of the floor, but his overall message is just awesome. He wants players to share the ball, play unselfishly, and play to their own strengths. Most importantly, for me as a player, Coach provided a comfort level for those guys looking for opportunities to succeed at the NBA that would not have been looked at in the same light otherwise. I'm talking about guys who went undrafted or those who just needed someone to appreciate their special skill set. Pop does that better than anybody. That's something that I want to do when I coach, and I've done that so far. It's about making sure each guy is appreciated, from the stars to the last guy on the bench. That's an important key to putting together a winning team. Year after year, you see guys just pop up and contribute on that Spurs team more than people believe. I understood that, because I was one of those guys. I want to provide players with similar NBA opportunities. _____________ And he gives You an NBA Guard on the staff... |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 6, 2016 10:39:21 GMT -5
Or Georgetown fans, when 2 out of the last 3 years we've missed the NCAA Tournament, despite having the most highly rated recruits in the conference. How many points rebounds or assts is that HS ranking producing? Is it more than Mo Watson Jr's or Roosevelt Jones' for instance? Guilty as charged, YaBoy. The reason I do that is because I think it's the most objective way available to the casual observer to understand talent levels coming into programs. That's why I much more highly regard RSCI rankings as opposed to individual sites (for example, I think ESPN's rankings could be pretty questionable given the conflict of interest of hyping kids going to schools that play their games primarily on ESPN networks). That said, definitely agree that players develop differently and would be ranked much differently based on production at the end of their college careers than they do going in. To use your examples, at this point, I'd rather have Mo Watson's production than Tre Campbell's, and Roosevelt Jones' production than Isaac Copeland's, even though Tre and Ike were ranked higher going into college than Watson and Jones respectively. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 6, 2016 10:40:39 GMT -5
I really don't get the angst about Sutton and Hardy. First of all, all indications are they were pretty good guys, and they did make contributions to the program. Both seem to have left on good terms. Assistant coaches change. The fact is that our recruiting for 2016 wasn't super-strong, and 2017 isn't off to a great start either. In fact, I recall people being concerned about our recruiting, and I'm pretty certain that if we whiff on Lykes or someone like that soon, the board will be engulfed in an uproar by some. At this point, all this doesn't really matter. Sutton and Hardy are gone, and their replacements are far more important to our future success at this point. I do tend to be among the group that wants good recruiters, but given how weak our defense was last year, somebody who is a specialist at teaching defense plus a fair recruiter would be a good fit too. For me the angst isn't about them, it's about JT3 & his ability to hire & develop a staff.. As I stated in previous posts his recent track record isn't very good.. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 10:41:02 GMT -5
Or that tells you he's the main person getting it done. I don't think 3 wants Broadus to have landed 9 out of 13 he just put in work. All 3 assistants had their coverage areas. I like your idea about looking at the TX coach any idea if the reason Shaka took him off was family related? Seems like an odd situation.. I hear you Yaboy but it seems deeper than that, IMO JT3 values KB's input much more than he does other coaches.. That's not a bad thing btw, he should run point on all highly coveted recruits but the other guys should've had more input on the 2ndary kids.. From what I've read Smart didn't want to lose Jai Lucas & by extension his Pops to Dixon/TCU.. It's reported that Lucas is very well liked in Texas recruiting circles especially Houston which has become a hotbed for talent so Lucas went from dobo to 3rd asst. over Morrell.. Nothing to lose making an inquiry to him, it'd be completely outside of the box the program is in now.. Is this just a perception you have or is their some type of tangible evidence to back this up? Texas has deep pockets so he might be getting a nice check to stay at home but definitely worth an inquiry... |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 6, 2016 11:02:15 GMT -5
Interesting article from before last season about how the coaching staff handles recruiting. This part caught my eye: "According to Thompson, whichever assistant coach identifies a prospect of interest will usually take the lead in recruitment. In addition, Thompson himself is involved with all of the prospects." www.thehoya.com/basketball-preview-recruiting-focuses-on-history-location/ |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 6, 2016 11:11:47 GMT -5
UNC lost by a buzzer beater in the National championship. Is that the team that disproves this theory? You can find examples here and there but over the course of time usually talent wins out imo. 9 players are on schedule to graduate over the next 2 years so good recruiter has to be part of the consideration. Agree Strength and Conditioning needs to be upgraded but you don't need to use a lead asst position to do that imo. I would be ok with another ace recruiter I would also be ok with a solid bench coach. Hard tofind both in 1 so will be interesting to see what direction it goes. This. Who would turn down UNC's level of success under Droopy Dog? I'd take that in a heartbeat. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 6, 2016 11:13:00 GMT -5
UNC lost by a buzzer beater in the National championship. Is that the team that disproves this theory? You can find examples here and there but over the course of time usually talent wins out imo. 9 players are on schedule to graduate over the next 2 years so good recruiter has to be part of the consideration. Agree Strength and Conditioning needs to be upgraded but you don't need to use a lead asst position to do that imo. I would be ok with another ace recruiter I would also be ok with a solid bench coach. Hard tofind both in 1 so will be interesting to see what direction it goes. I was responding to the OPs claim that talent trumps coaching, all day everyday.. I agree that talent is needed but at the end of the day a staff must be able to maximize the players in the program in order to be consistently successful in the long term.. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 11:14:30 GMT -5
Interesting article from before last season about how the coaching staff handles recruiting. This part caught my eye: "According to Thompson, whichever assistant coach identifies a prospect of interest will usually take the lead in recruitment. In addition, Thompson himself is involved with all of the prospects." www.thehoya.com/basketball-preview-recruiting-focuses-on-history-location/ Very extensive article, lots of solid info in there... good stuff |
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