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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 11, 2015 21:35:08 GMT -5
I try to avoid criticizing the officials--I really d0--but am I the only one who feels that the officials have way too much control over the games?
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 11, 2015 22:23:34 GMT -5
I try to avoid criticizing the officials--I really d0--but am I the only one who feels that the officials have way too much control over the games? It depends. I personally wish there were fewer fouls called in the average basketball game. I'm not sure however of the best pathway to get there. The problem is, too often this becomes "I want the officials to call/not call the fouls that benefit my team the most." Take Georgetown fans, for instance. We seem pretty universally in agreement that officials should call fewer fouls on Josh Smith "for being big" in the paint. But on the other hand, we want stricter enforcement for holding guards cutting through the paint. Likewise, everyone seems to hate the renewed emphasis on hand-check fouls...until you play Villanova or VCU or Duke or anybody that plays aggressive perimeter defense and traps. Now, since this is in the Providence thread...I mean, we're kinda talking about those calls against Mikael, right? I'm with you, man.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2015 23:46:09 GMT -5
The problem with officiating isn't the level of control. Not calling a foul is just as impactful as calling a non-foul. Their level of control is what it is.
The issue is that they suck at it. I don't mean in a biased way. I mean in a "I'd be shocked that, if you reviewed via video tape each call, the officials had higher than a 60% accuracy rate." There are tons of anticipation calls, even out calls, etc. What there isn't is any real accuracy.
I know a lot of people will say, "they do the best they can" or "there's no way to improve them." They'd be wrong.
They aren't evaluated on accuracy. No one is trying to find ways to get them more accurate. They could track and analyze that data. They could add another official to the court (that bald ref kept making calls that he couldn't possibly see). They could do what football does and assign specific items for people to look for. Hell, they could go completely revolutionary and put an official in the booth -- and I'm not talking replay.
Of course it's not a real focus for anyone, but as a sports fan, I'd like to see it.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 12, 2015 7:32:23 GMT -5
In the PC game, the Providence fans around us were horrified at all the fouls called on bumping cutters. The thing that bothered me most were the ticky tack bumps they called that negated wide open layups (I'd peg that number on 1-2 on each team) and that they were so uneven in applying when they called those fouls - the same thing could have been called on 70% of plays. Oh, and Kris Dunn palms the ball on every possession - what made that one call special?
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 12, 2015 9:38:36 GMT -5
ok but regardless woulda WON cant have a senior center miss six of six foul shots at crunch time NOPE cost us the game woulda won despite playing a not great game woulda won YUP SIX AM TO MCDONOUGH dsr and markel starks did it LETS GO HOYAS HIT SOME |FREE THROWS theyre FREE wright go hoyas
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jan 12, 2015 10:15:43 GMT -5
When will the "over the back" foul call come back into fashion? Despite opposing teams using Josh's back like an escalator to go for the rebound, I feel like I haven't seen one of those called since 2008.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 12, 2015 10:47:39 GMT -5
The problem with officiating isn't the level of control. Not calling a foul is just as impactful as calling a non-foul. Their level of control is what it is. The issue is that they suck at it. I don't mean in a biased way. I mean in a "I'd be shocked that, if you reviewed via video tape each call, the officials had higher than a 60% accuracy rate." There are tons of anticipation calls, even out calls, etc. What there isn't is any real accuracy. I know a lot of people will say, "they do the best they can" or "there's no way to improve them." They'd be wrong. They aren't evaluated on accuracy. No one is trying to find ways to get them more accurate. They could track and analyze that data. They could add another official to the court (that bald ref kept making calls that he couldn't possibly see). They could do what football does and assign specific items for people to look for. Hell, they could go completely revolutionary and put an official in the booth -- and I'm not talking replay. Of course it's not a real focus for anyone, but as a sports fan, I'd like to see it. Its also near impossible to get in on the old-boys club that is college reffing. I'd love for there to be more accountability.
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Jan 12, 2015 10:58:00 GMT -5
Easily the most frustrating loss of the season for me.
- White and Copeland have to be in against the zone. A line up that has hopkins and smith has no chance. We need guys who can flash to the FT line, catch the ball and turn and shoot. White and copeland are the two that fit the bill. Once that gets going you will get smith open down low and open 3 point looks. Passing around the perimeter, you get nothing.
- Remain very excited about the freshman class.
- Trawick needs to be less aggressive but more assertive on offense, if that makes sense. Basically, I mean he needs to look for his offense more, but in a controlled fashion. He needs to take the shot when he has it, and slash to the hole when he has a lane (but not jump up in the air after two steps without a plan).
- Hopkins is a quandary. The defense played very well on the whole, which is largely attributable to Hop. But that offense....
- DSR should force the issue. I only recall once where he got his own shot -- it was a cross-over, drive to the left, step back jumper from about 12 feet. They showed a replay it was so smooth. We didn't see it again. If the offense is bogging down, or if he is on the floor with an offensively challenged line-up, I would like to see DSR force his own game and not let it come to him. Same goes, to a lesser extent, for Peak.
- Time outs. I thought that JT3 had a few chances when providence started to get some of the momentum back late in the second half to call a time out and decided to play on. He should use the time outs. Late in games we are better just playing out anyways (see Florida), so we might as well use them early.
I'm not panicking, but we are going to have to get some road wins to make the tourney and this one was prime for the taking.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 12, 2015 11:27:06 GMT -5
Easily the most frustrating loss of the season for me. - White and Copeland have to be in against the zone. A line up that has hopkins and smith has no chance. We need guys who can flash to the FT line, catch the ball and turn and shoot. White and copeland are the two that fit the bill. Once that gets going you will get smith open down low and open 3 point looks. Passing around the perimeter, you get nothing. - Remain very excited about the freshman class. - Trawick needs to be less aggressive but more assertive on offense, if that makes sense. Basically, I mean he needs to look for his offense more, but in a controlled fashion. He needs to take the shot when he has it, and slash to the hole when he has a lane (but not jump up in the air after two steps without a plan). - Hopkins is a quandary. The defense played very well on the whole, which is largely attributable to Hop. But that offense.... - DSR should force the issue. I only recall once where he got his own shot -- it was a cross-over, drive to the left, step back jumper from about 12 feet. They showed a replay it was so smooth. We didn't see it again. If the offense is bogging down, or if he is on the floor with an offensively challenged line-up, I would like to see DSR force his own game and not let it come to him. Same goes, to a lesser extent, for Peak. - Time outs. I thought that JT3 had a few chances when providence started to get some of the momentum back late in the second half to call a time out and decided to play on. He should use the time outs. Late in games we are better just playing out anyways (see Florida), so we might as well use them early. I'm not panicking, but we are going to have to get some road wins to make the tourney and this one was prime for the taking. Agree with everything but I will say Trawick's aggression early in the second half really jump-started the offense and the team. In the wake of the loss it got lost along with everything else positive, but he had a nice game. Hopefully, he can recreate last year's quality second half run after what has been, to my mind, a little disappointing senior year so far.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Jan 12, 2015 13:45:54 GMT -5
Easily the most frustrating loss of the season for me. - White and Copeland have to be in against the zone. A line up that has hopkins and smith has no chance. We need guys who can flash to the FT line, catch the ball and turn and shoot. White and copeland are the two that fit the bill. Once that gets going you will get smith open down low and open 3 point looks. Passing around the perimeter, you get nothing. - Remain very excited about the freshman class. - Trawick needs to be less aggressive but more assertive on offense, if that makes sense. Basically, I mean he needs to look for his offense more, but in a controlled fashion. He needs to take the shot when he has it, and slash to the hole when he has a lane (but not jump up in the air after two steps without a plan). - Hopkins is a quandary. The defense played very well on the whole, which is largely attributable to Hop. But that offense.... - DSR should force the issue. I only recall once where he got his own shot -- it was a cross-over, drive to the left, step back jumper from about 12 feet. They showed a replay it was so smooth. We didn't see it again. If the offense is bogging down, or if he is on the floor with an offensively challenged line-up, I would like to see DSR force his own game and not let it come to him. Same goes, to a lesser extent, for Peak. - Time outs. I thought that JT3 had a few chances when providence started to get some of the momentum back late in the second half to call a time out and decided to play on. He should use the time outs. Late in games we are better just playing out anyways (see Florida), so we might as well use them early. I'm not panicking, but we are going to have to get some road wins to make the tourney and this one was prime for the taking. Agree with all of this 100% (except dont feel that strongly about the timeouts). This one really hurt.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 12, 2015 17:57:31 GMT -5
I hear what you guys are saying about the officiating, but still--the control factor is maddening. For example, Josh picks up two quick fouls--both questionable, therefore he has to sit the rest of the first half. That's a game-changer right there. Then, later on in the game, they called another foul on Josh that they reversed. By the way, josh handled the call very well. He did not even complain loudly. Had that been me, I probably was going to walk away with a technical. Hopkins had a foul call against him that totally affected the game in the second half. Like I said before, you can go back and check all my posts, I have never complained about the officiating. However, it does seem to me, the refs tend to focus on the bread-and-butter players, maybe to create more competition.
I say somebody has to go back and look at the quality of the officiating, period. I am done. I will try to not complain about the officials ever again.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 12, 2015 18:09:00 GMT -5
I don't think most of us are disagreeing with you.
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Post by bicentennial on Jan 12, 2015 19:24:24 GMT -5
I agree refs calls definitely change games. Giving a 3rd bogus foul in the first half guarantees limited minutes for a player. Even though on average fouls end up near equal, I feel often times when there is a big discrepancy early on the refs even it out purposefully when the game can't be won! The worst foul I have ever seen called was when Jabril's jaw was broken and he was called for the foul.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 13, 2015 22:19:58 GMT -5
This one hurt because Providence played about as badly as you could ever expect them to play at home, and we still couldn't beat them.
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