RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 14, 2015 23:31:50 GMT -5
I assume that Thamel figured it would be too obvious to publish this column under his own byline, so he asked Nocera to do it for him... More seriously, I think a lot of people are sufficiently disgusted by the NCAA and the college athletics landscape (at least with respect to the revenue sports...) that they're willing to sweep the baby out with the bathwater, as it were, and deride any action by the NCAA because THE WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM IS GUILTY etc. |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 15, 2015 10:29:38 GMT -5
I recently looked up Kermit Davis Jr the current Middle Tennessee State coach who was busted for violations after one season at Texas A&M in the early 1990s. Davis was busted for emulating Boeheim in order to get a transfer from Syracuse. Davis hired "talent scout" Rob Johnson from NYC to work his basketball camp just as Boeheim had done for several years and Johnson delivered the player to A&M just as he had delivered about a half dozen players to Syracuse. Every infraction that Davis committed at A&M involving Johnson had been committed multiple times by Boeheim at Syracuse, but only Kermit Davis was punished.
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Post by flyoverhoya on Mar 15, 2015 10:45:15 GMT -5
I recently looked up Kermit Davis Jr the current Middle Tennessee State coach who was busted for violations after one season at Texas A&M in the early 1990s. Davis was busted for emulating Boeheim in order to get a transfer from Syracuse. Davis hired "talent scout" Rob Johnson from NYC to work his basketball camp just as Boeheim had done for several years and Johnson delivered the player to A&M just as he had delivered about a half dozen players to Syracuse. Every infraction that Davis committed at A&M involving Johnson had been committed multiple times by Boeheim at Syracuse, but only Kermit Davis was punished. Thereby proving the Tarkanian Theorem. |
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 15, 2015 11:19:59 GMT -5
I recently looked up Kermit Davis Jr the current Middle Tennessee State coach who was busted for violations after one season at Texas A&M in the early 1990s. Davis was busted for emulating Boeheim in order to get a transfer from Syracuse. Davis hired "talent scout" Rob Johnson from NYC to work his basketball camp just as Boeheim had done for several years and Johnson delivered the player to A&M just as he had delivered about a half dozen players to Syracuse. Every infraction that Davis committed at A&M involving Johnson had been committed multiple times by Boeheim at Syracuse, but only Kermit Davis was punished. Thereby proving the Tarkanian Theorem. Or the "Too Big To Fail" theorem. I suspect that part of the reason the Syracuse investigation dragged on as long as it did was because there was a lot of internal institutional hesitancy within the NCAA to go hard at a big fish like Boeheim. The Bernie Fine saga took a lot of sheen off of Boeheim's image, though, and his generally peevish and contemptuous manner probably helped seal the deal. The UNC case will be a real barometer. Their activities made Jim Harrick look like Socrates. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 15, 2015 12:06:08 GMT -5
Thereby proving the Tarkanian Theorem. Or the "Too Big To Fail" theorem. I suspect that part of the reason the Syracuse investigation dragged on as long as it did was because there was a lot of internal institutional hesitancy within the NCAA to go hard at a big fish like Boeheim. The Bernie Fine saga took a lot of sheen off of Boeheim's image, though, and his generally peevish and contemptuous manner probably helped seal the deal. The UNC case will be a real barometer. Their activities made Jim Harrick look like Socrates. I'm not all that familiar with the UNC issues, so I am wondering why everyone feels this way. From what I've read it seems to be more of University academic problem and issue that athletes were taking advantage of rather than an athletic department created problem that the NCAA had direct jurisdiction over. I think they should be punished, obviously, but I am unfamiliar with what was so terrible that they did. I am clearly missing something. |
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 15, 2015 12:34:01 GMT -5
Or the "Too Big To Fail" theorem. I suspect that part of the reason the Syracuse investigation dragged on as long as it did was because there was a lot of internal institutional hesitancy within the NCAA to go hard at a big fish like Boeheim. The Bernie Fine saga took a lot of sheen off of Boeheim's image, though, and his generally peevish and contemptuous manner probably helped seal the deal. The UNC case will be a real barometer. Their activities made Jim Harrick look like Socrates. I'm not all that familiar with the UNC issues, so I am wondering why everyone feels this way. From what I've read it seems to be more of University academic problem and issue that athletes were taking advantage of rather than an athletic department created problem that the NCAA had direct jurisdiction over. I think they should be punished, obviously, but I am unfamiliar with what was so terrible that they did. I am clearly missing something. I think the assumption - it's my assumption, anyway - is that there's zero chance that this was some independent "University academic problem" that renegade professors invented and cunning and guileful scholarship athletes took advantage of without any awareness on the part of the Athletics department. That beggars belief, not to mention Occam's Razor. People are already predisposed to suspect that many/most of these athletes couldn't study their way out of a paper bag without having an academic cat-herder, an army of tutors, and four hours of mandatory study hall a day to keep them wobbling on the path to eligibility and graduation. They're not going to find likely the possibility that these same athletes were independently involved in a wide-ranging conspiracy of academic fraud. As with most things in life, it's all a matter of degree. It's reasonably well-known that there are certain classes at Georgetown that, um, tend to draw basketball players and other scholarship athletes. The kinds of classes with professors who are willing to bend over backwards to accommodate travel and practice schedules (good!) and to schedule flash mobs as a final exam (less good!). On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, all of these classes contain actual academic content - it may not be Orgo, but there's a there there, as they say. In truth, when it comes to intellectual development and life after college, "Struggle and Transcendence" may be far more valuable to most basketball players than Econ Stats or (picks random course out of the course catalog) "Paradoxes in Aristotle and Plato". And plenty regular, non-athlete Georgetown students take and pass these classes. It is decidedly not the type of academic fraud committed by the Harricks and UNCs of the world. Where to draw the line is something about which everyone will have a different opinion. I actually don't think that UNC's actions here were all that much of an outlier, compared to most other power conference (and non-power conference, for that matter) schools with athletic programs. It just looks worse because it's UNC and they're #30 on the US News rankings and they've gone to great lengths to cultivate a reputation for academic eliteness and prestige. Double-edged sword, that. |
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Mar 15, 2015 12:39:51 GMT -5
I'm not all that familiar with the UNC issues, so I am wondering why everyone feels this way. From what I've read it seems to be more of University academic problem and issue that athletes were taking advantage of rather than an athletic department created problem that the NCAA had direct jurisdiction over. I think they should be punished, obviously, but I am unfamiliar with what was so terrible that they did. I am clearly missing something. I think the assumption - it's my assumption, anyway - is that there's zero chance that this was some independent "University academic problem" that renegade professors invented and cunning and guileful scholarship athletes took advantage of without any awareness on the part of the Athletics department. That beggars belief, not to mention Occam's Razor. People are already predisposed to suspect that many/most of these athletes couldn't study their way out of a paper bag without having an academic cat-herder, an army of tutors, and four hours of mandatory study hall a day to keep them wobbling on the path to eligibility and graduation. They're not going to find likely the possibility that these same athletes were independently involved in a wide-ranging conspiracy of academic fraud. As with most things in life, it's all a matter of degree. It's reasonably well-known that there are certain classes at Georgetown that, um, tend to draw basketball players and other scholarship athletes. The kinds of classes with professors who are willing to bend over backwards to accommodate travel and practice schedules (good!) and to schedule flash mobs as a final exam (less good!). On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, all of these classes contain actual academic content - it may not be Orgo, but there's a there there, as they say. In truth, when it comes to intellectual development and life after college, "Struggle and Transcendence" may be far more valuable to most basketball players than Econ Stats or (picks random course out of the course catalog) "Paradoxes in Aristotle and Plato". And plenty regular, non-athlete Georgetown students take and pass these classes. It is decidedly not the type of academic fraud committed by the Harricks and UNCs of the world. Where to draw the line is something about which everyone will have a different opinion. I actually don't think that UNC's actions here were all that much of an outlier, compared to most other power conference (and non-power conference, for that matter) schools with athletic programs. It just looks worse because it's UNC and they're #30 on the US News rankings and they've gone to great lengths to cultivate a reputation for academic eliteness and prestige. Double-edged sword, that. Got it. I really am unfamiliar with the case. I was under the assumption that the classes were set up and were taken largely by non-athletes. More of a University grade-inflation taken to another level kind of problem. I agree that it makes sense and would be really terrible if it did originate with the athletic department, though par for the course pretty much, as you said. |
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Mar 18, 2015 9:08:31 GMT -5
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 18, 2015 9:23:36 GMT -5
Had to happen. What he did in the Fab Melo situation is beyond shameful. |
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Mar 18, 2015 9:50:26 GMT -5
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 18, 2015 10:05:02 GMT -5
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Mar 18, 2015 10:07:12 GMT -5
Over The Hilltop @overthehilltop 9m9 minutes ago
Area Skeptical Hoya Fan Bets Boeheim Retirement Date Also A Ploy to Defer/Reduce NCAA Sanctions and/or Win Appeal
1 retweet 1 favorite
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gutuna
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by gutuna on Mar 18, 2015 10:12:24 GMT -5
Over The Hilltop @overthehilltop 9m9 minutes ago Area Skeptical Hoya Fan Bets Boeheim Retirement Date Also A Ploy to Defer/Reduce NCAA Sanctions and/or Win Appeal 1 retweet 1 favorite Exactly. This way he can claim he was not forced out too. But he'll bolt just as the sanctions are starting to bite, leaving his successor with nothing in the cupboard. What a bastard. |
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 18, 2015 10:12:19 GMT -5
Over The Hilltop @overthehilltop 9m9 minutes ago Area Skeptical Hoya Fan Bets Boeheim Retirement Date Also A Ploy to Defer/Reduce NCAA Sanctions and/or Win Appeal 1 retweet 1 favorite No doubt that SU will use his impending retirement as a basis to get a reduction in the scholarship penalty. I think it would have had more "beef" if it weren't three years out. As for giving Boeheim some wins back, who really cares? Give him some wins back. . .whatever it takes such that he still falls short of the magic 1,000 win number even if he goes unbeaten for the rest of his career. The appeal is heard by the NCAA Committee on Infractions? Somehow I doubt that there will be much of a reduction in either penalty, if any at all. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 18, 2015 10:17:59 GMT -5
1095...
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Mar 18, 2015 10:18:58 GMT -5
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 18, 2015 10:26:36 GMT -5
Preliminary reactions from the twitterverse are not kindly as to Boeheim's impending retirement:
Chris Moore @mooretosay 4m4 minutes ago
My God, who advises Boeheim, Pete Carroll?
Michelle Beadle @michelledbeadle 20m20 minutes ago
Oh. We're doing announcements for 3 years from now? Stand by….
Conor Orr @conortorr 32m32 minutes ago
Weird. Thought that happened in 2000. RT @syrbasketball Jim Boeheim will retire in three years, Syracuse University announced.
Big East Hoops 24/7 @bigeasttourney 1m1 minute ago
@hoopsweiss Not a fan of the pre-retirement announcements. Now we have 3 years of Boeheim farewell tour to endure.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoya95 on Mar 18, 2015 10:27:37 GMT -5
So Boeheim "takes reponsibility" by making his AD the fall guy and then announcing he'll retire at the same time he planned on retiring all along. Oh, and Syracuse will appeal everything else. I shouldn't be surprised, but the nerve here is pretty amazing.
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Mar 18, 2015 10:37:54 GMT -5
It's clearly to get to 1000 wins. He's banking on the NCAA inevitably restoring the 108 vacated ones. It's always only been about JB and not the fact that the program will not recover for several years after he leaves.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 18, 2015 10:41:38 GMT -5
The AD, Daryl Gross, was a "dead-man-walking" after the details as to the attempts to reclaim Fab Melo's academic eligibility became public. We can blame Boeheim for many, many things, but I don't believe that Gross is his fall guy. Gross did this to himself.
Boeheim's sheer, unmitigated gall ("chutzpah" in its purest form) in announcing that he will retire in three years, however, is breathtaking. Cajones. Big brass ones.
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