prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 17:57:30 GMT -5
Rivers, Nikita, JB, Bolden, etc... didn't leave because they realized they couldn't take the pressure. They left because the writing was on the wall as to playing time the following year being taken up by an incoming recruit. Instead of competing for pt, they left. Look at Rivers or Mack or Nikita, each went to highly regarded basketball programs with equal pressure situations. And why was their writing on the wall....? oh wait, they weren't good enough to keep minutes. Thanks for proving my point...and no the pressure situations at Wake and IU were pretty much the polar opposite of here at the time. And I don't mean literally couldn't take the pressure, I meant they got on the court and realized they might not be good enough to make an impact in the program. In regards to vmack he realized he couldn't be the "big ticket" everyone was hoping for and he admitted he didn't work hard enough on his game while at GU. How did I prove your point? Were you the poster quoted about pressure? I didn't even know. LOL! You mean to tell me that Rivers, Nikita and Mack thought that they got on the court and realized they were not good enough for GU, but would be just fine in IU, WF and UF? The players mentioned left because some were delusional (Rivers) about the following year's playing time, some were Editeded and didn't put the work in (Mack), and Nikita... well he was Nikita. Each had to compete against good/great recruits for pt and starting spots, not guaranteed. That said, each could have had a role and playing time here not as a starter, but decided against it. Put simply: it wasn't that the pressure got to them or the realization that they weren't good enough; it was because they wanted more playing time or to be starters, and they were not going to get it here.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:08:06 GMT -5
And why was their writing on the wall....? oh wait, they weren't good enough to keep minutes. Thanks for proving my point...and no the pressure situations at Wake and IU were pretty much the polar opposite of here at the time. And I don't mean literally couldn't take the pressure, I meant they got on the court and realized they might not be good enough to make an impact in the program. In regards to vmack he realized he couldn't be the "big ticket" everyone was hoping for and he admitted he didn't work hard enough on his game while at GU. How did I prove your point? Were you the poster quoted about pressure? I didn't even know. LOL! You mean to tell me that Rivers, Nikita and Mack thought that they got on the court and realized they were not good enough for GU, but would be just fine in IU, WF and UF? The players mentioned left because some were delusional (Rivers) about the following year's playing time, some were Editeded and didn't put the work in (Mack), and Nikita... well he was Nikita. Each had to compete against good/great recruits for pt and starting spots, not guaranteed. That said, each could have had a role and playing time here not as a starter, but decided against it. Put simply: it wasn't that the pressure got to them or the realization that they weren't good enough; it was because they wanted more playing time or to be starters, and they were not going to get it here. You just don't get it...
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:11:29 GMT -5
I like to use facts.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:17:02 GMT -5
Facts? Do you wanna talk about facts? Fact: Wake and IU were both in the ter during those years. The fact that you deny that is enough for me..
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:23:40 GMT -5
Facts? Do you wanna talk about facts? Fact: Wake and IU were both in the Editedter during those years. The fact that you deny that is enough for me.. Facts: Even Duke and UK have had down times. IU and WF are important college basketball programs with rabid fan/student/alumni/donor bases (whether more so than GU is debatable, but not less so) who do not take a year off. For you to deny that is enough for me.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:29:23 GMT -5
Facts? Do you wanna talk about facts? Fact: Wake and IU were both in the Editedter during those years. The fact that you deny that is enough for me.. Facts: Even Duke and UK have had down times. IU and WF are important college basketball programs with rabid fan/student/alumni/donor bases (whether more so than GU is debatable, but not less so) who do not take a year off. To deny that is delusional. Keep telling yourself that JR and Nikita didn't transfer to bottom feeders that had less pressure than GU at the time. Part of the nature of transferring is alleviated some pressure by changing scenery and going to a program where expectations might not be as high....
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:33:20 GMT -5
Facts? Do you wanna talk about facts? Fact: Wake and IU were both in the Editedter during those years. The fact that you deny that is enough for me.. Facts: Even Duke and UK have had down times. IU and WF are important college basketball programs with rabid fan/student/alumni/donor bases (whether more so than GU is debatable, but not less so) who do not take a year off. To deny that is delusional. Keep telling yourself that JR and Nikita didn't transfer to bottom feeders (at the time for IU, and still for Wake) that had less pressure than GU at the time. I don't care what your programs reputation is, when you have consecutive losing seasons like those two had expectations aren't very high. Part of the nature of transferring is alleviating some pressure by changing scenery and going to a program where expectations might not be as high....you have a whole year to get better before being expected to perform.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:34:56 GMT -5
So according to you, expectations might not be so high at IU and WF? compared to GU?
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:35:17 GMT -5
So according to you, expectations might not be so high at IU and WF? No not at all. Why don't you put that in context? You can laugh all you want but the reality is GU had an infinitely better basketball team than both those programs, roughly from 2008-2011 (and still much better than Wake). I remember Jerelle losing us a game by shooting an ill advised 3 in a close game up at the pavilion because JT3 was trying to develop him as much as possible....where did he end up? But I'm done because you're twisting the central point of debate.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:36:52 GMT -5
So according to you, expectations might not be so high at IU and WF? No not at all. Why don't you put that in context? You can laugh all you want but the reality is GU had an infinitely better basketball team than both those programs, roughly from 2008-2011 (and still much better than Wake). But I'm done because you're twisting the central point of debate. Programs are not built around 3 years. But, I'm glad we're done.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:39:31 GMT -5
No not at all. Why don't you put that in context? You can laugh all you want but the reality is GU had an infinitely better basketball team than both those programs, roughly from 2008-2011 (and still much better than Wake). But I'm done because you're twisting the central point of debate. Programs are not built around 3 years. But, I'm glad we're done. Hahah yet keeps twisting words....why don't you just use your "facts" to come up with a logical sequence of thoughts?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 18:40:19 GMT -5
Ah! So you were not done?!
I'm sorry you couldn't provide evidence to back up your "pressure" statement.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jan 5, 2014 19:19:33 GMT -5
So just to be clear (and stir the pot), elite programs that are in down years are lower pressure situations than ones with teams performing closer to institutional expectations. That should ease the worries of those coaches whose teams underperform at elite schools
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 5, 2014 20:10:16 GMT -5
Silly seaweed.... when teams are in down years, everyone plays fast and loose and everyone is relaxed and content to play poorly. They don't, under any circumstance, feel any additional pressure to play better. I think that was George Steinbrenner's motto in fact.
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hoyaloya
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by hoyaloya on Jan 5, 2014 20:12:15 GMT -5
Does it help the starters not to use blowouts to give game time experience to some bench players? In each recent blowout, was there not sloppy play by the starters in the 2d half?
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 5, 2014 22:28:05 GMT -5
Quote: "Bench players come in and realize they can't take the pressure and leave." I don't understand the reasoning or the premise. As another poster pointed out, AB is an example of how game time experience is improving him. This is a deceptive example to prove the point that freshmen like Cameron or Domingo (his freshman year) need more minutes though. AB hardly played as a freshman or sopohmore (3.4 minutes & 3.8 minutes respectively). He played 7.0 minutes last year and 15.9 minutes a game this year. From that it's impossible to conclude whether it was 3 years of practice time and skills development under JT3's system or the increased minutes his junior year which is responsible for his increased effectiveness. I doubt a role player like AB would have dramatically improved during his freshmen year by playing more minutes and it probably would have cost the team +/- and games while he was out there for 15 plus minutes running around like a chicken with his head cut off (to paraphrase JT3). If you look at JT3 most of the scholarship role player or above seniors are getting 10+ minutes. JT3 has no problem playing freshmen 15+ minutes if they can handle themselves. (Monroe, Freeman, Wright, Lubick, Porter, Whit). The problem in the past is that he has been burned by playing marginal role player type guys (Jeremiah Rivers, Nikita, Bennimon) who were rushed into service to fulfill a team positional weakness and trading off the negative +/- they brought to the table in exchange for experience only to have them take that PT and leave. If the player is ready to play he gives them the minutes. As it is Cameron is getting almost 10 minutes a game (For comparison, Jabril averaged 11 minutes a game as a freshmen) which is alot for someone who can't defend right now.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Jan 5, 2014 23:16:14 GMT -5
I do not recall Jeremiah Rivers playing time costing the Hoyas a game.
If this is wrong, can someone give an example and the game he cost us.
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hoyaloya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 156
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Post by hoyaloya on Jan 5, 2014 23:18:32 GMT -5
We are not talking about 15 minutes every game. We are talking about getting more than a minute in blowouts.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 5, 2014 23:25:32 GMT -5
Can someone give me the scoop on Reggie Williams son that is the new walkon. Didn't I read on this board somewhere that he played for his father in high school?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 5, 2014 23:59:31 GMT -5
Quote: "Bench players come in and realize they can't take the pressure and leave." I don't understand the reasoning or the premise. As another poster pointed out, AB is an example of how game time experience is improving him. This is a deceptive example to prove the point that freshmen like Cameron or Domingo (his freshman year) need more minutes though. AB hardly played as a freshman or sopohmore (3.4 minutes & 3.8 minutes respectively). He played 7.0 minutes last year and 15.9 minutes a game this year. From that it's impossible to conclude whether it was 3 years of practice time and skills development under JT3's system or the increased minutes his junior year which is responsible for his increased effectiveness. I doubt a role player like AB would have dramatically improved during his freshmen year by playing more minutes and it probably would have cost the team +/- and games while he was out there for 15 plus minutes running around like a chicken with his head cut off (to paraphrase JT3). If you look at JT3 most of the scholarship role player or above seniors are getting 10+ minutes. JT3 has no problem playing freshmen 15+ minutes if they can handle themselves. (Monroe, Freeman, Wright, Lubick, Porter, Whit). The problem in the past is that he has been burned by playing marginal role player type guys (Jeremiah Rivers, Nikita, Bennimon) who were rushed into service to fulfill a team positional weakness and trading off the negative +/- they brought to the table in exchange for experience only to have them take that PT and leave. If the player is ready to play he gives them the minutes. As it is Cameron is getting almost 10 minutes a game (For comparison, Jabril averaged 11 minutes a game as a freshmen) which is alot for someone who can't defend right now. You're leaving out that Bowen, as a player, has improved. I don't know but I don't think that's because of increased minutes during games. I think he's improved himself. His decisions are better. His shot selection is better. His defense is miles better. Aaron has a much better understanding of both the offense and the defense. I feel like he's getting more minutes because his skills and abilities are needed but, thankfully, he's also not remotely the same player that he was last year. AB deserves a lot of credit for putting in that work on his own. I'm sure that he's known/been told what to work on. To his credit, he's done some of that work. In short, I don't think he's improved because he got more minutes. I think he improved so he's getting more minutes. It's a chicken/egg sort of thing but I think Aaron deserves praise for the work he's obviously put into his game.
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