FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
|
Post by FLHoya on Jan 5, 2014 11:35:35 GMT -5
I dont disagree with your general assertion, but St Johns was totally unprepared because they are always totally unprepared. Under Lavin, they always look that way. Why would you think we'd have trouble versus them at home? We've won like ten straight there against them, and undisciplined, athletic teams are teams we usually dominate. St. John's displayed that irresistible combination of no outside shooting threat (beside one bench player) + no reliable post presence + limited sharing of the basketball. Every defense suddenly works well: you can trap in the half court (they always pick up their dribble), play a collapsing zone (because they take the same baseline jumper that Hopkins could easily close on), or my favorite--credit to my buddy here--play "Braswell defense" on any guard b/c you either (a) get the steal, (b) the guard will dribble straight down the lane and NEVER PASS THE BALL so the entire team can cheat on the blocked shot. Never going to look a gift Steve Lavin in the mouth, but I can't have been the only one thinking on several occasions yesterday "Wow, I can't believe THAT is working". I mean, when was the last time we were threading 15-20 foot backdoor bounce passes for layups? It boggles my mind that St. John's was hanging in with Syracuse at MSG a few weeks ago, not doing much different than today. It's an offense apparently designed to create a lot of long two point jumpers, basically to troll SFHoya. And the weird thing is, who knows what the MSG game will be like, other than somebody's a good bet to get ejected.
|
|
|
Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 5, 2014 11:43:14 GMT -5
Anyone else want to argue that this team isn't better when they play faster and force tempo? Been saying this all year: This specific team, this season, will be most effective scoring in this format. We mask a lot of our deficiencies this way. Just how the roster composition worked its way out. St. John's was TOTALLY unprepared for the new look Hoyas, got punched in the mouth and couldn't recover. It really looked like they were shocked we pressed and even more shocked we weren't walking the ball up the court and running our sets all the way through before putting up a jump shot. I give full credit to III for finally seeing this (hope it continues). St. John's is the type of team I thought we'd struggle with big time but that was such a compete effort all around. Love it! Oh and also was happy that two good local scoring guard recruits got to see it! I dont disagree with your general assertion, but St Johns was totally unprepared because they are always totally unprepared. Under Lavin, they always look that way. Why would you think we'd have trouble versus them at home? We've won like ten straight there against them, and undisciplined, athletic teams are teams we usually dominate. Yes you're right we normally tear apart athletic undisciplined teams. And for the record I never thought we would lose, however I did think they would make us work. I guess I keep foolishly expecting that this amount of talent at St. John's would put it together. However this year with big athletic teams I don't think we match up well. See Kansas. (And no St. John's is nowhere near the team Kansas is I know but hopefully look past the name.) If you could have told me Obekpa would have little to no impact and Sampson etc wouldn't really do much I would have agreed we wouldn't have much problem. But my only point is full credit to the team yesterday. They payed their butts off
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 12:25:27 GMT -5
III recruiting Tre Campbell over Romello Trimble hopefully signifies that he wants to get the tempo of our play up… Trimble is everything III used to love in a guard prospect. Great shooting undersized 2 playing point with limited athleticism. Tre is a jet, he will be one of the fastest players we have had during III’s tenure and he can really push the rock. A much better fit with the athletes we have coming in.
So never say never/fingers crossed but I hope that was the first sign in our recruiting changing
|
|
Talos
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 612
|
Post by Talos on Jan 5, 2014 12:41:05 GMT -5
III recruiting Tre Campbell over Romello Trimble hopefully signifies that he wants to get the tempo of our play up… Trimble is everything III used to love in a guard prospect. Great shooting undersized 2 playing point with limited athleticism. Tre is a jet, he will be one of the fastest players we have had during III’s tenure and he can really push the rock. A much better fit with the athletes we have coming in. So never say never/fingers crossed but I hope that was the first sign in our recruiting changing Excellent point. I hope you are right. It seems JTIII has discovered this year that a pressing defense and up tempo offense can cover up weaknesses and a lack of quality depth. Whatever the reason for using the press more often, I'm loving the results. It's fun to watch, and reminds me of the good ol' days!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 12:45:20 GMT -5
III recruiting Tre Campbell over Romello Trimble hopefully signifies that he wants to get the tempo of our play up… Trimble is everything III used to love in a guard prospect. Great shooting undersized 2 playing point with limited athleticism. Tre is a jet, he will be one of the fastest players we have had during III’s tenure and he can really push the rock. A much better fit with the athletes we have coming in. So never say never/fingers crossed but I hope that was the first sign in our recruiting changing Excellent point. I hope you are right. It seems JTIII has discovered this year that a pressing defense and up tempo offense can cover up weaknesses and a lack of quality depth. Whatever the reason for using the press more often, I'm loving the results. It's fun to watch, and reminds me of the good ol' days! One more point is he made the decision to pursue Tre over Trimble before we had Peak and White in the fold. Which also might be significant
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,532
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 12:50:09 GMT -5
Great shooting undersized 2 playing point with limited athleticism. 1. Is this DSR? 2. How many of those have we had? Please write them down so we can discuss. Let's see the standards for "great".
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 5, 2014 12:55:33 GMT -5
I dont disagree with your general assertion, but St Johns was totally unprepared because they are always totally unprepared. Under Lavin, they always look that way. Why would you think we'd have trouble versus them at home? We've won like ten straight there against them, and undisciplined, athletic teams are teams we usually dominate. Yes you're right we normally tear apart athletic undisciplined teams. And for the record I never thought we would lose, however I did think they would make us work. I guess I keep foolishly expecting that this amount of talent at St. John's would put it together. However this year with big athletic teams I don't think we match up well. See Kansas. (And no St. John's is nowhere near the team Kansas is I know but hopefully look past the name.) If you could have told me Obekpa would have little to no impact and Sampson etc wouldn't really do much I would have agreed we wouldn't have much problem. But my only point is full credit to the team yesterday. They payed their butts off Ah, you wildly underestimated the destructive force that is Lavin.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 13:05:20 GMT -5
Great shooting undersized 2 playing point with limited athleticism. 1. Is this DSR? 2. How many of those have we had? Please write them down so we can discuss. Let's see the standards for "great". A tongue and cheek comment not meant to be taken too seriously but Jon Wallace,and DSR come to mind..
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 5, 2014 13:17:37 GMT -5
1. Is this DSR? 2. How many of those have we had? Please write them down so we can discuss. Let's see the standards for "great". A tongue and cheek comment not meant to be taken too seriously but Jon Wallace,and DSR come to mind.. Ashanti Cook fits as well, as he played the point when Jon was off the floor. There's no doubt III likes his combo guards. If anything was wrong, it was probably the undersized part. None of these guys are huge, but Thompson has seemingly cut off his recruiting at about 6'1", 6'2".
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,532
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 13:24:29 GMT -5
A tongue and cheek comment not meant to be taken too seriously but Jon Wallace,and DSR come to mind.. Ashanti Cook fits as well, as he played the point when Jon was off the floor. There's no doubt III likes his combo guards. If anything was wrong, it was probably the undersized part. None of these guys are huge, but Thompson has seemingly cut off his recruiting at about 6'1", 6'2". Cook was not a JT3 recruit and he wasn't a "great" shooter.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 5, 2014 13:32:17 GMT -5
He shot 44% from three his senior year. I'll take it.
|
|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 5, 2014 13:56:47 GMT -5
I believe this team, because of its hits, lumps and bruises this season, has gained confidence. Once you play caliber teams early, whether you win or loose, you always learn a lot more than if you played a bunch of mediocre teams early. This was a great win. DSR exuded confidence. So did Lubick, Starks and the whole cast.
|
|
hoyaloya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 156
|
Post by hoyaloya on Jan 5, 2014 14:04:42 GMT -5
Quote: "Bench players come in and realize they can't take the pressure and leave."
I don't understand the reasoning or the premise. As another poster pointed out, AB is an example of how game time experience is improving him. But even if the premise were true, is it not better that they leave and open spots for more productive players as opposed to having non-usable players on the bench?
|
|
|
Post by JohnnyJones on Jan 5, 2014 14:07:01 GMT -5
I believe this team, because of its hits, lumps and bruises this season, has gained confidence. Once you play caliber teams early, whether you win or loose, you always learn a lot more than if you played a bunch of mediocre teams early. This was a great win. DSR exuded confidence. So did Lubick, Starks and the whole cast. I think the fact that we got to play (and beat) VCU in November is a huge + for the season. Whenever we get pressed I have a ton of confidence in our (Markel's) ability to handle it after having dealt with it so well for 40 minutes of the most intense pressure we will likely see all year. I suspect Markel et al have the same confidence.
|
|
OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
|
Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 5, 2014 14:54:39 GMT -5
One of the problems in the past was that the role player guys we would give PT to and invest minutes in would end up leaving the program. This happened with Jeremiah, Nikita and Bennimon in separate years. So we let them play the minutes and let them throw up air balls and miss layups and become turnover machines at the cost of losing a couple games without receiving the payoff of that playing time experience. This is a good point. There are two sides of the coin. Bench players come in and realize they can't take the pressure and leave. I was happy to see the short bench. SJ is a talented team that could go on spurts if the defense was compromised by bench players. Cameron was put in and his man went around him like he was standing still. III had to immediately take him back out. Even though the lead never got below double digits in second half you did not want the Johnnies to get any ideas of a comeback. There will be other games where his offense will be necessary despite his shaky defense. Yesterday his offense was not needed.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 15:52:45 GMT -5
Quote: "Bench players come in and realize they can't take the pressure and leave." I don't understand the reasoning or the premise. As another poster pointed out, AB is an example of how game time experience is improving him. But even if the premise were true, is it not better that they leave and open spots for more productive players as opposed to having non-usable players on the bench? I was quoting a poster who made that point. The premise was that while jt3 is busy experimenting with giving them pt we lose games in the process as they turnover the ball, throw up bricks, mess up the offensive and defensive flow, etc.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 15:54:15 GMT -5
I believe this team, because of its hits, lumps and bruises this season, has gained confidence. Once you play caliber teams early, whether you win or loose, you always learn a lot more than if you played a bunch of mediocre teams early. This was a great win. DSR exuded confidence. So did Lubick, Starks and the whole cast. I think the fact that we got to play (and beat) VCU in November is a huge + for the season. Whenever we get pressed I have a ton of confidence in our (Markel's) ability to handle it after having dealt with it so well for 40 minutes of the most intense pressure we will likely see all year. I suspect Markel et al have the same confidence. If they didn't have confidence before that, then Houston.....we have bigger problems.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,532
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 16:40:42 GMT -5
Rivers, Nikita, JB, Bolden, etc... didn't leave because they realized they couldn't take the pressure. They left because the writing was on the wall as to playing time the following year being taken up by an incoming recruit. Instead of competing for pt, they left. Look at Rivers or Mack or Nikita, each went to highly regarded basketball programs with equal pressure situations.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,532
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 5, 2014 16:44:09 GMT -5
He shot 44% from three his senior year. I'll take it. Gray area there. Still is not a JT3 recruit so he cannot be used as an example of what JT3 looks for in recruiting.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jan 5, 2014 17:25:06 GMT -5
Rivers, Nikita, JB, Bolden, etc... didn't leave because they realized they couldn't take the pressure. They left because the writing was on the wall as to playing time the following year being taken up by an incoming recruit. Instead of competing for pt, they left. Look at Rivers or Mack or Nikita, each went to highly regarded basketball programs with equal pressure situations. And why was their writing on the wall....? oh wait, they weren't good enough to keep minutes. Thanks for proving my point...and no the pressure situations at Wake and IU were pretty much the polar opposite of here at the time. And I don't mean literally couldn't take the pressure, I meant they got on the court and realized they might not be good enough to make an impact in the program. In regards to vmack he realized he couldn't be the "big ticket" everyone was hoping for and he admitted he didn't work hard enough on his game while at GU.
|
|