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Post by sweetdaddy on Mar 28, 2005 16:38:02 GMT -5
want to come play in this offense? i mean seriously, if you weren't a born hoya, would you really want to come here and play in this offense? to be quite honest, i wouldn't and i love the hoyas. so do you guys think we will get another top notch big man anytime soon?
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Mar 28, 2005 16:42:02 GMT -5
Well if you're a TOP big man, you aren't going anywhere other than the pros. That said, nowadays, most big guys want to develop their "perimeter" games and be more like Jeff Green than Mike Sweetney or Sean May. The Princeton offense does that as well as any offense. Personally, I feel like it's not a great thing for the game in general that everyone wants to be KG or Dirk instead of learning to play with their back to the basket. But that's the way it is.
I think the decisions that most recruits make aren't as sophisticated as you might think. A lot of it is their relationship with the staff (and we have an excellent staff), their impressions of the school, and their desire to get exposure.
If Pat Ewing was in high school today, would he be a Hoya? I doubt it, but not because of our offense.
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Mar 28, 2005 16:45:39 GMT -5
want to come play in this offense? i mean seriously, if you weren't a born hoya, would you really want to come here and play in this offense? to be quite honest, i wouldn't and i love the hoyas. so do you guys think we will get another top notch big man anytime soon? any coach with a GREAT big man isn't going to have him out on the perimeter... He'd definitely taylor his offense to his personnel...
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 28, 2005 16:50:47 GMT -5
No doubt the system is geared toward a perimeter big man than it is toward a back to the basket post up big man--geared more toward a Jeff Green than a Roy Hibbert if you will.
Nonetheless, Im confident that JTIII is pragmatic enough to maximize the talent he has. If at some point during his time at Georgetown, Hibbert develops into a great post player, Im confident JTIII will put in some alternative options to the motion-based O that are designed to get him the ball in the paint. The same is true of any other PF/C recruits he lands. I think hell focus more on trying to recruit skilled big men and players who can "do it all" rather than on focusing on old school centers, but if one falls into his lap Im sure hell take advantage of it.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 28, 2005 16:51:45 GMT -5
I guarantee if we get a great big man, the Princeton Offense would go out the window. Its like JT2 always ran a big man offense. Remember he had the offense run through Othella Harrington those first two years. Then Allen Iverson came into the picture and JT2 changed the whole offensive philosophy because he knew that made the team better than just dumping the ball to Othella and playing a slow-down game. He started pushing the ball up-court at a fast pace. Othella had to lose weight his Junior year so he could keep up with the changes in the offense. JTIII strikes me as a coach that plays to his talent. If we had a big man, you would see some adjustments to the offensive approach.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2005 16:59:45 GMT -5
want to come play in this offense? i mean seriously, if you weren't a born hoya, would you really want to come here and play in this offense? to be quite honest, i wouldn't and i love the hoyas. so do you guys think we will get another top notch big man anytime soon? nychoya3 is right - any TOP big man is going pro these days (or somewhere for a year at most). More importantly, I don't think T3 is too concerned with landing a TOP big man to maintain the Georgetown "tradition" of dominant big men. I'd love to see some big man depth to give Green and Hibbs some breathers, and I'd even love to see a nasty big man who can take over games down low in a Hoya jersey, but I'd rather see III get the athletes he thinks best fit the system he's put in. I trust his judgment on personnel at this point - and if that means we lose our "Big Man U." rep, so be it. I'd trade all that for a title anyway.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 28, 2005 17:01:43 GMT -5
Three key points:
1) JTIII seems to be recruiting the best players regardless of position...we are not focusing on a perceived need or "hole" in the lineup but gunning for the top players in the country.
2) JTIII seems to structure his game plan and offense around the talent he has...that was the largest critique, fair or unfair at Princeton. Basically, some of the alumni there were angered that JTIII would tailor and alter the Princeton O drastically depending on who he had in the game or who was playing season to season. Those disgruntled alumns complained that he was tarnishing the famous O and welcomed the arrival of Scott who is much more dogmatic. Of course JTIII's players had the worst Princeton season ever under Scott's new system. Funny how some people embrace orthodoxy over success...
3) He has repeatedly said that the Princeton O isn't about sets, but is a philosophy about sharing the ball effectively and using players to their full potential. While you and other media figures might think of it as pass, pass, pass, shoot a three -- JTIII envisions it as more of an underlying philosophy about maximizing talent by distributing the ball efficiently. That works in any league and when run smoothly will result in pretty basketball, highlight reel dunks, high shooting percentages and media fawning --- this will drive recruitment.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 28, 2005 17:07:59 GMT -5
Totally agree. The reason we emphasized outside shooting this year is because a sharing offense will always open up wide open jumpshots, but also it was because we didn't have great penetrators or dominant post players. Add a top-notch pivot man into the mix, and you'll still see plenty of spacing and outside shooting, but I'd be willing to be that JT3 has more than enough coaching ability to design lots of nice plays for the stud center, too. We just recruited some slashers -- wanna bet we see more slashing next year?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 28, 2005 17:28:20 GMT -5
If I were a top big man, but for some reason wasn't going to the pros (Bynum, for example), this is EXACTLY the offense I'd want.
Why?
1. I touch the ball every possesion. The offense runs through me.
2. I get to play on the perimeter like my idol, Kevin Garnett/Dirk Nowitzki, etc.
3. It develops skills I've totally neglected in HS, like passing.
4. When I go to the low post, and the offense allows it, there's no one clogging the lane, getting in my way, or even close enough to double team. My teammates actually stretch the defense!
Do you think Jeff Green is complaining? This is the BEST offense for the modern big man. I can't imagine a better one.
The myth:
We didn't give our guys enough low post chances.
Truth:
They got it when they deserved it. Every time Roy was in, he got chances. The guy took more than his share of shots and turned over the ball quite a bit, too. For one of the less effective offensive players we had (which is to be expected from a Frosh big man), he got a ton of opportunities.
Jeff got a lot of chances versus smaller players, but was ineffective at times versus bigger teams. When they collapsed on him, we took advantage on the perimeter. He's not Mike Sweetney -- scoring at will against triple teams. And he's a perimeter player at heart.
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Post by bowmansbruzers on Mar 28, 2005 17:36:00 GMT -5
If I were a big man coming out of high school highly recruited I would love this program, because with me being a superstar in high school I want that ball and through this offense I touch the ball every time down. Also, If I am a big boy, I dont like to run alot back and fourth down the court, and in this offense we set the ball up in the offense and dont rush and dont have to many break aways so its the perfect offense here.
But, I think a sloping team like St. John's would be maybe better. I have the superstar treatment in high school and still want it in high school so I could step in at SHU, SJU, PC, or SFU and start the first year and get a ton of minutes and get the ball everytime down the floor, and me being the go to guy.
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Post by StoneColdHoya on Mar 28, 2005 20:18:29 GMT -5
If I were a big man, I'd love this offense. I think this offense teaches you so many skills - skills that will make you that much more marketable to an NBA franchise if you are able to master them. The offense we run is really a variation of the motion offense that so many teams in the NBA are using today (Kings, Nets, Spurs, etc). Any big man that isn't Shaq (and even those that are) is going to have to know how to pass from the elbow, how to read a defense from the top of the key, how to thread nice backdoor passes, how to find the open man on skip passes, etc. This offense teaches you that, and more.
Further, I'd reiterate what everybody has said before - as a big man in this offense, you are going to get plenty of touches in many different situations, and you are going to have plenty of oppotunities to score, get assists, get offensive rebound, and get easy shots.
I'm not a big man, though...in fact, I'm rather short...
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 28, 2005 20:22:17 GMT -5
Any big man that isn't Shaq (and even those that are) is going to have to know how to pass from the elbow, how to read a defense from the top of the key, how to thread nice backdoor passes, how to find the open man on skip passes, etc. This offense teaches you that, and more. Thats what Shaq does now for the Miami Heat and what he did for the Lakers during their Championship years.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 29, 2005 15:06:48 GMT -5
Most of the top teams don't have a dominant big and if they do he is an undersized power forward a la, Gomes, Smith, Diogou. Big time players will go where the W's are and JTIII will adjust the offense to the players.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 29, 2005 18:07:11 GMT -5
ColumbiaHeightsHoya is right on the money and remember during the BET, when Big John was interviewed about III's success and offensive system, he replied "John's a better coach than I am and he'll do whatever it takes to win with what he has--he wants to be more uptempo and if he has a dominant big man, the offense will change".
So I wouldn't worry about the offense attracting talent. III's a coach who will adjust to his talent, not make them limit their games to adjust to a system. I think most will be surprised what style of ball we play as more talent comes to the Hilltop.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Mar 30, 2005 11:25:10 GMT -5
Vernon Macklin is a perfect example. He loves the Hoyas and we love him. However, he may go pro, but prob not. He's nicknamed "big ticket". Has a mostly face up game at 6'9, but moved more inside this past season. He's a top 15 player in '06.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 30, 2005 11:32:53 GMT -5
Vernon Macklin is a perfect example. He loves the Hoyas and we love him. However, he may go pro, but prob not. He's nicknamed "big ticket". Has a mostly face up game at 6'9, but moved more inside this past season. He's a top 15 player in '06. His nickname's "Big Ticket"? I like this guy already. ;D
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 30, 2005 11:36:02 GMT -5
His nickname's "Big Ticket"? I like this guy already. ;D If his nickname is "Big Ticket", I don't want the guy nor would I like him for Georgetown. "Big Ticket" type players don't fit the Georgtown way of playing basketball. I don't want a media-hyped, overrated player who is a stat stuffer, and runs and hides in crunch time, gives the ball up in the last minute of the game, and lacks mental toughness.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Mar 30, 2005 11:41:55 GMT -5
Man, that's a hell of a lot of conjecture based on a nickname. Maybe his name is big ticket because he's big and he "punches it in" the hoop.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 30, 2005 11:47:24 GMT -5
If his nickname is "Big Ticket", I don't want the guy nor would I like him for Georgetown. "Big Ticket" type players don't fit the Georgtown way of playing basketball. I don't want a media-hyped, overrated player who is a stat stuffer, and runs and hides in crunch time, gives the ball up in the last minute of the game, and lacks mental toughness. I wouldn't want one of those either. If he's like Garnett though, I'd love to have him.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 30, 2005 11:47:53 GMT -5
I would trust JTIII rather than base my opinion on nicknames.
Also, if I were a top big man in hs, I would love to play for the Hoyas and join that small, but rich fraternity that is the Hoya-NBA Center Club. Plus, getting a chance to play with (during the off-season) and get tips from our NBA centers isn't half bad.
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