Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 13, 2013 12:06:15 GMT -5
And again--I've said this 400 times in this thread--though nothing fills the seats like winning, there are a number of clear little things that can be done to make the Verizon Center atmosphere feel like an EVENT. Steps to combat the staid nature of a huge NBA arena when it isn't completely full. Stopping the Fr. McFadden announcement reading would be a great first step.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 13, 2013 12:07:40 GMT -5
I understand I attended the University during the transition. I'm not looking for 2/3 of the student body to own season tickets. We need the Duke '06 games and the Final Fours to get that. I'm not even looking for 1/2 of the student body to show up to games anymore. Basically, I am well, well aware that I came to the university at a special time (and am forever grateful!) The thing is, we've been consistently ranked in the top 25 for the last few seasons. We are a good basketball team. I'm just looking for this to create SOME buzz on campus. We are a basketball school - no offense to any of the other sports but basketball is really our only fan sport. The fact that there is close to no buzz on campus about this is ridiculous. I just want more than 400 or so students to show up for a top-20 matchup on Big Monday. The fact that the student sections were half full on national television was an embarrassment. I don't disagree with anything you've said. I haven't been to campus in years and have no feel for the buzz level. It was definitely embarrassing to see such a poor turnout for the Marquette game. I mostly just wanted to reminisce about the those first few years of JTIII ;D I really think the biggest issue far and away is transportation.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 13, 2013 12:09:58 GMT -5
All of the points about success are important, and I don't think Final Fours have to be the bar--a simple Sweet Sixteen trip would do the trick. The incredible buzz on any campus that occurs during those 4 days of media hype when you're one of 16 teams left in the country is enormous. Assuming you don't then lose to a lower-seeded team, those things make a difference. Agree 100%. Upsetting Ohio St. and making the Sweet 16 had an incredible effect on student fandom that set the stage for the level of support we got in the following few seasons that we all want to recapture.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 13, 2013 12:14:22 GMT -5
MY GOD we are spoiled as a fan group.....A Sweet 16 every year should be the benchmark to expect students to show up to games??? excuse me for a second....
WHAT THE BLEEPING BLEEPING BLEEP ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!
Soooo basically the fact that because we're such a good program consistently now, we have to have post season success to draw fans. Yeah ok...just checking. Wanted to make sure that was as ridiculous as it sounded
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Feb 13, 2013 12:29:21 GMT -5
All of the points about success are important, and I don't think Final Fours have to be the bar--a simple Sweet Sixteen trip would do the trick. The incredible buzz on any campus that occurs during those 4 days of media hype when you're one of 16 teams left in the country is enormous. Assuming you don't then lose to a lower-seeded team, those things make a difference. Anything is better than first and second round loses which we have seen since 07. That has caused the team to lose momentum in the fan base.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 13, 2013 12:29:23 GMT -5
MY GOD we are spoiled as a fan group.....A Sweet 16 every year should be the benchmark to expect students to show up to games??? excuse me for a second.... WHAT THE BLEEPING BLEEPING BLEEP ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?! Soooo basically the fact that because we're such a good program consistently now, we have to have post season success to draw fans. Yeah ok...just checking. Wanted to make sure that was as ridiculous as it sounded You're missing the point. Badly. No one is saying that's the benchmark. The students that appreciate the consistent winning by a good program like those of us on this board are the ones who show up now. Them and the ones who like to get drunk and scream. It's all the casual fan students that don't really give a crap about winning and losing that aren't showing up now. All the kids who will go just because all their friends are going. We're simply saying that a lack of recent postseason success is part of the reason for that. As I said, I have no feel for the buzz on campus, but others have stated it's lacking. Winning the BE tourney and/or making a run in the Big Dance helps create that buzz. And if you go back and read my previous posts, you'll see that I've clearly stated I think the lack of free/easy transportation to the arena is the biggest deterrent to students nowadays, especially on weeknights. So please, take a deep breath and calm yourself lest we have to suffer through another self-censored tirade
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 13, 2013 12:36:05 GMT -5
My point is that post season success shouldn't really have anything to do with students showing up to games during the year. period. end of story
The transportation issue I completely agree with. Making the games a more party environment I completely agree with.
The team doing anything in the post season is a flimsy argument/rationalization for a few reasons. As you say these are "casual" fans why would they care if they went to the sweet 16 the year before? We're consistently ranked in the top 25....we have a chance to be one of very few teams to be ranked in the top 10 for what 7? 8? consecutive seasons. We're a national power. As a casual fan, you see a top 20 matchup on ESPN and you can't come out? As I stated earlier I don't expect miracles (ie a weeknight depaul or seton hall game) to attract fans. A top 20 matchup that any casual observer can see and say "huh this is a big game"; and they don't show up. THAT'S A PROBLEM!
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 13, 2013 12:44:17 GMT -5
My point is that post season success shouldn't really have anything to do with students showing up to games during the year. period. end of story The transportation issue I completely agree with. Making the games a more party environment I completely agree with. The team doing anything in the post season is a flimsy argument/rationalization for a few reasons. As you say these are "casual" fans why would they care if they went to the sweet 16 the year before? We're consistently ranked in the top 25....we have a chance to be one of very few teams to be ranked in the top 10 for what 7? 8? consecutive seasons. We're a national power. As a casual fan, you see a top 20 matchup on ESPN and you can't come out? As I stated earlier I don't expect miracles (ie a weeknight depaul or seton hall game) to attract fans. A top 20 matchup that any casual observer can see and say "huh this is a big game"; and they don't show up. THAT'S A PROBLEM! Fair enough, I can't disagree with that. I've been reading this forum for a long time and I happen to generally like what you bring to the table, so for the sake of not getting into the typical Hoyatalk let's-beat-this-to-death-even-though-we-really-mostly-agree argument, I'm going to shift this back to the transportation issue. Why did they stop providing buses for games? I'm assuming it was money. Is it really that expensive? I really can't see anything else being as big a factor in this discussion.
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Hoyaholic
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Post by Hoyaholic on Feb 13, 2013 12:48:53 GMT -5
Not to beat a dead horse, but there were also no exciting home games prior to conference play.
As mentioned above, and ad nauseum in other posts, GU has circumstances related to (1) playing off-campus, (2) limited undergrad enrollment, and (3) the lack of a sizeable local alumni base that collectively are unique to any school trying to compete at this level. As a result we simply cannot approach the OOC portion of our schedule the same way that other schools do.
We have to give the students (and other season ticket holders) a reason to get engaged earlier in the season. The fact that the season was half over before there was a home game worth attending is inexcusable, and I am sure is at least partly responsible for the lack of interest on campus.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 13, 2013 12:51:13 GMT -5
My point is that post season success shouldn't really have anything to do with students showing up to games during the year. period. end of story The transportation issue I completely agree with. Making the games a more party environment I completely agree with. The team doing anything in the post season is a flimsy argument/rationalization for a few reasons. As you say these are "casual" fans why would they care if they went to the sweet 16 the year before? We're consistently ranked in the top 25....we have a chance to be one of very few teams to be ranked in the top 10 for what 7? 8? consecutive seasons. We're a national power. As a casual fan, you see a top 20 matchup on ESPN and you can't come out? As I stated earlier I don't expect miracles (ie a weeknight depaul or seton hall game) to attract fans. A top 20 matchup that any casual observer can see and say "huh this is a big game"; and they don't show up. THAT'S A PROBLEM! This shows a shocking ignorance of the way the casual fan operates. Most casual fans of college basketball simply don't pay attention to the sport until March Madness. Indeed, the media doesn't really go all-in on hoops until that point, at which point college basketball is basically the only thing anyone is talking about (think about all of the people who fill out brackets who probably haven't watched a college hoops game all season up to that point). People LOVE to bask in reflected glory, so when your school suddenly is getting widespread media attention for its achievements, the bandwagon can't fill up fast enough. Now flip that around. If everybody is watching, and your no. 2 or 3 or 4 seeded team craps out on the first weekend when such upsets ALWAYS lead the news, the casual fan runs away and doesn't want to be associated with failure. At a school as small as ours, playing in a building as massive and as inconvenient to get from campus as Verizon, you will need the casual fan to show up regularly in order to draw big numbers. This isn't a commentary saying this fair, only an attempt at a realistic assessment of what set apart a few years ago's student attendance (and really all attendance) from today's. If I recall, there was a somewhat similar effect in the early part of the 2001-2002 season following the surprise Sweet Sixteen appearance in 2001. This is the same reality according to which successful baseball teams sell 3 million tickets the year AFTER they go to the World Series but not necessarily the year they actually get there.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 13, 2013 12:51:27 GMT -5
I also heard that student season tickets got more expensive. Anybody know how that's affected sales? In other words, are there simply fewer students with season tickets compared to previous years?
And to add one to Hoyaholic's post: (4) we don't bus them to games anymore. Anybody know if we still subsidize metro?
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 13, 2013 12:54:04 GMT -5
MY GOD we are spoiled as a fan group.....A Sweet 16 every year should be the benchmark to expect students to show up to games??? excuse me for a second.... WHAT THE BLEEPING BLEEPING BLEEP ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?! Soooo basically the fact that because we're such a good program consistently now, we have to have post season success to draw fans. Yeah ok...just checking. Wanted to make sure that was as ridiculous as it sounded One other point: I don't think anyone is saying the Sweet Sixteen every year is the benchmark. The problem is that when you receive a top 16 seed, which suggests you should make the Sweet 16, and then you don't get there, that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the casual fan. Maybe that can happen just one year and it won't damage enthusiasm. Maybe even two years. But 4 years out of 5 exiting the tourney via relatively significant upset with one massive failure to make the tournament sandwiched in there? Is it really such a surprise enthusiasm has waned a bit? I'll bet there are a lot fewer average posts per day on this board than there were in 2008.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Feb 13, 2013 13:01:41 GMT -5
I also heard that student season tickets got more expensive. Anybody know how that's affected sales? In other words, are there simply fewer students with season tickets compared to previous years? And to add one to Hoyaholic's post: (4) we don't bus them to games anymore. Anybody know if we still subsidize metro? They are $125 now as opposed to I think $80-something in 06/07? They may have risen to $100 by the time I graduated in 08. They justified the price difference by combining ticket packages for men's and women's hoops. Before, you could buy women's separately, but no one would go if they had to pay. They couldn't make it free for students because of Title IX - not free for mens, therefore not free for womens. Now, they can say "you can get into women's games for free" to encourage attendance. Maybe they could drop the price back down to $100 for the "ticket package."
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Feb 13, 2013 13:21:44 GMT -5
I also heard that student season tickets got more expensive. Anybody know how that's affected sales? In other words, are there simply fewer students with season tickets compared to previous years? And to add one to Hoyaholic's post: (4) we don't bus them to games anymore. Anybody know if we still subsidize metro? Student section season tickets are now $125 and I believe include both the women's and men's games (you can check the GUHoyas.com ticketing page). When I was a student 2003-2007, season ticket prices did go up over my four years, but I want to say the average price was around $75. Also, for my first three years, there was the bus system that everyone is talking about. During my senior year, they stopped doing the buses because there were now TOO many students to feasibly bus to and from the games. Instead, they included discounted Metro passes, and buses shuttled students to either the Rosslyn or Dupont Circle Metro stations. I believe the AD had this subsidized Metro system for two years, but then stopped, as apparently the plan all along was to phase this system out. I took the buses a lot as a freshman, but as I got older, I took Metro more and more often to get there earlier, before the first buses arrived, to ensure I got better seats. However, since it's the casual fans we're talking about, I think I've finally come around on this one - I think we ABSOLUTELY should start busing folks to and from games again. The original reason they stopped is because too many students were going to games. That's no longer a problem. Time to bring them back. At least for weekday games. There are some logistical things that would need to be worked out - having a proper number of buses to make sure no one gets stranded, and make sure they don't leave before the game ends (which would encourage students to leave the game early). The busing system was never perfect, but I believe with proper planning and organization these things can be figured out. Yes, it would cost the AD more money, but we did it before when the program was struggling and had LESS money, so I don't see why we aren't in a position anymore to do it again. I don't have a nostalgic view of the buses like some do. But anything that gets more students to games, I will support.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 13, 2013 13:22:52 GMT -5
MY GOD we are spoiled as a fan group.....A Sweet 16 every year should be the benchmark to expect students to show up to games??? excuse me for a second.... WHAT THE BLEEPING BLEEPING BLEEP ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?! Soooo basically the fact that because we're such a good program consistently now, we have to have post season success to draw fans. Yeah ok...just checking. Wanted to make sure that was as ridiculous as it sounded One other point: I don't think anyone is saying the Sweet Sixteen every year is the benchmark. The problem is that when you receive a top 16 seed, which suggests you should make the Sweet 16, and then you don't get there, that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the casual fan. Maybe that can happen just one year and it won't damage enthusiasm. Maybe even two years. But 4 years out of 5 exiting the tourney via relatively significant upset with one massive failure to make the tournament sandwiched in there? Is it really such a surprise enthusiasm has waned a bit? I'll bet there are a lot fewer average posts per day on this board than there were in 2008. To add to this point, we on this board and those like us understand that VCU was a terrible matchup for us, that Davidson was underseeded and had a one man wrecking crew on their team, that NC State was a young, talented team that caused matchup problems for us inside and out. (I have no comment on the Ohio debacle. I don't think anyone could come up with an explanation for that one.) I am by no means saying we should not have won those games, but I think most of us can understand from a basketball perspective why we lost. The casual fan doesn't. To the casual, we lost/got pummeled by bad, no-name teams and had a miserable debacle of a season in 08-09 where we missed the dance. When you take off the Hoyatalk blinders for a second, it's easy to see why a casual fan would think this program hasn't been successful recently. Hence, weak attendance on Monday night. THAT AND NO GODDAMN BUSES
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Post by bigelephant on Feb 13, 2013 15:34:29 GMT -5
Why , in God's name, doesn't the AD provide transportation. Student attendance was MUCH higher when they did. Also good teams attract fans - so isnt 18-4 good? I think so. Monday nite isnt the best time nor is 9PM.. That being said - PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION (buses) and fill the end zone seats.
The issue at the time was that many students avoided the buses altogether in lieu of Metro or taxis. Lots of empty buses ordered for students that did not show--Admin
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Post by bigelephant on Feb 13, 2013 15:45:42 GMT -5
So order less buses - times change and def the freshman would be the biggest users. Why not reconsider? Just because that was the case once doen't mean we have to drop the idea forever.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Feb 13, 2013 16:05:10 GMT -5
Why , in God's name, doesn't the AD provide transportation. Student attendance was MUCH higher when they did. Also good teams attract fans - so isnt 18-4 good? I think so. Monday nite isnt the best time nor is 9PM.. That being said - PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION (buses) and fill the end zone seats. The issue at the time was that many students avoided the buses altogether in lieu of Metro or taxis. Lots of empty buses ordered for students that did not show--AdminBut I thought relying on metro/taxis to get to Verizon was too difficult, like searching for Timbuktu.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 13, 2013 17:38:43 GMT -5
There has to be a solution to this issue. Can we survey the student body to find out why they're not showing up? Is it the team? Is it transportation? Is it ticket prices? Is it the god-awful ads/announcements over the PA system? Would it be that hard to conduct a short survey and gather some data to try and solve this problem? Because that turnout on Monday was terrible. All of us were discouraged by the student section and I'm sure the players noticed as well.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 13, 2013 21:01:45 GMT -5
The issue at the time was that many students avoided the buses altogether in lieu of Metro or taxis. Lots of empty buses ordered for students that did not show--Admin That is an explanation I've never heard before.
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