Notre Dame to ACC in non-football sports

[guru]

Sorry, but the statement "There might be stability for a while" does not fill me with enthusiasm for the future.

[seaweed]

one thing is clear - we should all be praying for Steve Lavin and a resurgent SJU. The notion that NY/MSG belongs to anyone other than the Johnnies needs to be banished.

[reformation]

One good outcome of the ND exit would be a rethinking of our overall athletic program, maybe freeing ourselves of the need to overinvest in some sports because of BE requirements and rethinking the home of some of the non bball flagship sports like men's/women's lacrosse, e.g.,--.

Also rethinking the scheduling across all sports given the diminished attractiveness of the BE schedule

I don't expect this but who knows, maybe this will get the admin to get their head out of the sand. Lee Reed it seems was brought in primarily as an administrator-it seems that we really need a good strategic thinker at this point.

[DFW HOYA]

Sept 13, 2012 23:27:08 GMT -5 reformation said:

One good outcome of the ND exit would be a rethinking of our overall athletic program, maybe freeing ourselves of the need to overinvest in some sports because of BE requirements and rethinking the home of some of the non bball flagship sports like men's/women's lacrosse

What sports (other than basketball, perhaps) does Georgetown over-invest in?

[CTHoya08]

Sept 13, 2012 19:36:02 GMT -5 HoyaNyr320 said:

Sept 13, 2012 16:49:11 GMT -5 pash said:

And the main problem is that none of these schools support nearly as many teams as Georgetown. Even the Big East schools on the list are big laggards—DePaul has only 13 varsity teams, for example, and Marquette has only 10.

Unless Georgetown sticks with the big boys in a major conference, it's going to have a hell of a time figuring out how to avoid cutting half its sports.

I definitely agree with you on this for the most part. However, there are always ways to find leagues to house the sports that the main league doesn't - i.e. ECAC for Lacrosse, Sailing is non-NCAA anyway, Colonial for Rowing, etc.

The problem isn't finding leagues for those teams, it's funding them.

[hoyarooter]

Sept 13, 2012 19:12:04 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8375714/commissioner-mike-aresco-says-big-east-prepared-negotiate-notre-dame-buyout

That has added to the perception that the Big East is a league on the verge of falling apart. Aresco's response to those assertions?

"Complete nonsense," he said. "First of all. I've read some of the articles. Some have been fair, others haven't been fair. We have a great basketball conference. Notre Dame -- we enjoy having the relationship -- but when you have Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, and UConn and Georgetown and Villanova and an up-and-coming St. John's, the possibility of DePaul doing well in Chicago, and adding Memphis and Temple, two strong programs. ... When you have all that, how can anybody argue we aren't top to bottom the best basketball conference in the country? We're right up there.

"When you lose a team, there's always some comment and that's fine. We know we have a strong future, and we also know we've reconstituted our football and we've added some outstanding teams. The old Big East in football was a very good conference, but it didn't have a Boise, which has a national appeal, it didn't have range, it didn't have the Texas schools. We have a bright outlook, and I'm going to make that point. What we don't want to do is let a narrative take over that might simply be inaccurate. It is simply inaccurate."

Given the latest move, though, Aresco believes the landscape has perhaps solidified itself, and a period of stability may take hold. That would benefit no other conference more than the Big East as it tries to rebuild itself and its image again.

"It clarifies the situation. Our sense is this might be it for a while," he said. "There might be stability for a while. The ACC has made a statement they don't want to expand. The Big 12 has steadfastly said they want to stay at 10. It looks like there might be a period of relative calm. What we want to do is make our schools happy to be in the Big East, proud of the Big East. We want to instill pride. That's key. That's why I've been so adamant about the fact that we have a great story to tell. What we need to do, any school that left we want to have the kind of conference where they wish they were back in. If we do have that period of stability, we can accomplish some terrific things."

I propose a debate between the commish and Ranch Dressing.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

Aresco covered much the same ground in an on-air interview with ESPN during a truly dreadful Slutgers-USF football game. He did pretty well, taking the high road at all opportunities.

[calhoya]

Sept 14, 2012 11:23:57 GMT -5 BubbleVisionBiff said:

Aresco covered much the same ground in an on-air interview with ESPN during a truly dreadful Slutgers-USF football game. He did pretty well, taking the high road at all opportunities.

Got to feel a little sorry for Aresco. He inherited this mess and cannot be blamed for what has gone on previously. Also, would be curious to know whether and to what extent negotiations are ongoing with ESPN. Given what is presumed by many about ESPN's "gloating" over the impact of defections on the BE, it would be amazing if they submitted a strong bid to keep the conference's TV package. At that point they would have to develop a plan to help resurrect the image of the conference.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

Sept 14, 2012 11:35:55 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Sept 14, 2012 11:23:57 GMT -5 BubbleVisionBiff said:

Aresco covered much the same ground in an on-air interview with ESPN during a truly dreadful Slutgers-USF football game. He did pretty well, taking the high road at all opportunities.

Got to feel a little sorry for Aresco. He inherited this mess and cannot be blamed for what has gone on previously. Also, would be curious to know whether and to what extent negotiations are ongoing with ESPN. Given what is presumed by many about ESPN's "gloating" over the impact of defections on the BE, it would be amazing if they submitted a strong bid to keep the conference's TV package. At that point they would have to develop a plan to help resurrect the image of the conference.

He referred to "preliminary conversations" having taken place thus far, that's it, and then named names in both camps that have had strong relationships over the years. Said again that BE has a great story to tell and that it's his job to tell it.

I simply can't imagine ESPN has any real interest in the BE on anything resembling a peer level contract-wise with ACC.

[reformation]

Sept 13, 2012 23:32:51 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Sept 13, 2012 23:27:08 GMT -5 reformation said:

One good outcome of the ND exit would be a rethinking of our overall athletic program, maybe freeing ourselves of the need to overinvest in some sports because of BE requirements and rethinking the home of some of the non bball flagship sports like men's/women's lacrosse

What sports (other than basketball, perhaps) does Georgetown over-invest in?

I would say probably baseball, women's volleyball, + football.

I wouldn't be opposed to actually spending more on these sports if we thought we could compete at a high level but I think its silly to partially fund mediocre efforts. The money could be redistributed elsewhere to sports where we could compete at a high level with a modest amt of extra $. I don't think it makes sense for Gtwn to give out athletic scholarships in sports where we have no high level competitive aspirations, my sense is that we do that in these sports to satisfy BE minimums. If we think we can compete at a high level with schollies great, but otherwise it makes no sense.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Um, football has nothing to do with BE minimums. After a modest commitment to the program, there is finally a silver lining and with a new stadium which would benefit soccer & lacrosse, the football team could dominate the patriot league. The sports that currently have no home base are probably difficult to continue pursuing but you have to keep in mind that if you axe a program, you are going to upset a lot of big donors who played that sport.

[Ranch Dressing]

My goodness, where to start? Let's see. Aresco thinks the key to sustaining the conference hodge podge is by "instilling pride" in the member schools.

I'm not sure the debate between Ranch Dressing and Aresco would be all that compelling or interesting. I might just rest my case after simply citing to Aresco's opening argument and sitting down.

We need to make our own future. Now.

[nychoya3]

Aresco = guy who knows the TV and college sports business inside and out. Ranch = guy who keeps repeating himself on internet message boards. I think I'll pass on that debate.

[happyhoya1979]

Like it or not, the company we keep with our athletic partners has a great deal to do with sustaining the academic reputation of the university. Look at what the Big East has lost over the past few years. While Syracuse and UPitt were not great schools, at least the former had the Maxwell School and the latter a strong medical school and AAU membership. Notre Dame is a top 20 school. Virginia Tech is one of the top 10 engineering schools in the nation. WVU may be a huge party school but it at least had a phi beta kappa chapter. The loss of these members is devastating.

Every last one of the top 20 schools with divsion 1 athletics is either in the Ivy League or in a conference with other strong academic schools except Georgetown. Even Vanderbilt in the SEC has a fellow AAU member in Florida.

On the court itself, UConn is now the only remaining Big East school to have won a title since 1986 (a quarter century) and it is about to sink into mediocrity. The Big East is not going to be a launching pad to a national title for anyone anymore.

We need to do something to get an appropriate athletic home outside the Big East and the sooner the better.

[strummer8526]

Sept 14, 2012 15:45:29 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

Like it or not, the company we keep with our athletic partners has a great deal to do with sustaining the academic reputation of the university. Look at what the Big East has lost over the past few years. While Syracuse and UPitt were not great schools, at least the former had the Maxwell School and the latter a strong medical school and AAU membership. Notre Dame is a top 20 school. Virginia Tech is one of the top 10 engineering schools in the nation. WVU may be a huge party school but it at least had a phi beta kappa chapter. The loss of these members is devastating.

Every last one of the top 20 schools with divsion 1 athletics is either in the Ivy League or in a conference with other strong academic schools except Georgetown. Even Vanderbilt in the SEC has a fellow AAU member in Florida.

On the court itself, UConn is now the only remaining Big East school to have won a title since 1986 (a quarter century) and it is about to sink into mediocrity. The Big East is not going to be a launching pad to a national title for anyone anymore.

We need to do something to get an appropriate athletic home outside the Big East and the sooner the better.

I'm sure if we dig hard enough, we can find positive things to say about the academics of Villanova, Marquette, Providence, Temple, etc. In fact, I doubt we have to dig that hard at all. No, none of them is Harvard, but they're fine academic institutions, whereas Syracuse is a trash heap and WVU's phi beta kappa chapter is probably made up of the fifteen hillbillies who drink the least moonshine on weeknights. ND is a loss academically, but I hardly think we're slumming it with the league we have now compared to the one we had two years ago.

[happyhoya1979]

You can say something reasonably nice about Rutgers but in national terms we don't have anything close to an academic soul mate in the BE. There is nothing world class about any of the other schools.

[hoopsmccan]

Vandy is in the same boat in it's league. No one gives a .

hm

[calhoya]

I never thought of athletic conferences--with the exception of the Ivy League--from an academic point of view. Conferences are a creation of the NCAA sports machine. Regardless of historical purpose, they continue to exist today for the purpose of providing vehicles to promote sports competition. As we now know, in the case of football and basketball, revenue enhancement is also a major factor. I have no problem with the Hoyas playing in a conference with the remaining BE schools. I am certain they each have many alumni worthy of us.

When I went to GULC, I never could understand the arrogance of some (though by no means all) of my classmates who had attended Ivy League schools, the undergraduate school on the hilltop, Notre Dame or other elite liberal arts colleges. All of these schools are great institutions, but the performance of students in the law school over the three years I attended did not reflect any obvious discrepancy between quality academic institutions and "lesser" schools.

[DFW HOYA]

Sept 14, 2012 15:45:29 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

Like it or not, the company we keep with our athletic partners has a great deal to do with sustaining the academic reputation of the university. Look at what the Big East has lost over the past few years. While Syracuse and UPitt were not great schools, at least the former had the Maxwell School and the latter a strong medical school and AAU membership. Notre Dame is a top 20 school. Virginia Tech is one of the top 10 engineering schools in the nation. WVU may be a huge party school but it at least had a phi beta kappa chapter. The loss of these members is devastating.

That's an overstatement. Syracuse and Pitt are each #58 in the US News survey. But newcomer SMU is #58 as well. West Virginia is #164, not far removed from Central Florida.

The US News numbers (and many methodologies) skew favorably to research universities. Thirteen of the 15 ACC schools qualify as such. But because Catholic schools do not score highly in institutional rankings (only seven of the US News Top 100 are Catholic) and reseach institutions are comparatively rare among Catholic schools (e.g., GU is the only Catholic school in the East--and one of only four nationally--with both a law and a medical school), only half of the Big East schools would even be considered research oriented.

Schools like Villanova and Providence aren't even ranked as national universities, while St. John's (#147) is alongside South Carolina State and Illinois-Chicago. A research school like Florida State or Virginia Tech dwarfs a Seton Hall or DePaul in rankings, but they have much different missions, too.

But in the long run, no one is measuring Georgetown's national prestige because they play Memphis or Cincinnati in basketball. But the Big East remains far preferable to the available options out there, emphasis on "available". The ACC or Big 10 isn't interested. Neither is the Ivy. The best option is the house it built. The Big East needs more builders, not more bailers.

[mapei]

I confess to a lot of ambivalence. I think the Big East is on a fast downward trajectory, and I hate to go down with the ship. But the realistic alternatives aren't that great, either.

Meanwhile, I love this:

"The Big 12 has steadfastly said they want to stay at 10.