Olympic Hoops: Dream Team vs. 2012

[DanMcQ]

Aug 4, 2012 14:35:28 GMT -5 kchoya said:

99-94

www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/extras/olympics_blog/2012/08/us_mens_basketb.html

[Deleted]

You're a good man, Facundo Campazzo. Thank you.

[Buckets]

When last would have been first: Continual improvement in sporting performance means today's also-rans would have won gold quite recently

[EasyEd]

After today, which Dream Team was best?

[DFW HOYA]

Aug 12, 2012 19:21:25 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

After today, which Dream Team was best?

Still no question. If 2012 couldn't handle Pau Gasol inside, try Patrick Ewing and David Robinson.

Eleven of the 12 members of the 1992 team are in the Hall of Fame. How many HOFers on this team? Maybe five.

Or as Charles Barkley summed it up: "They learned from us. We didn't learn from them."

[hoyarooter]

Aug 12, 2012 21:35:25 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Aug 12, 2012 19:21:25 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

After today, which Dream Team was best?

Still no question. If 2012 couldn't handle Pau Gasol inside, try Patrick Ewing and David Robinson.

Eleven of the 12 members of the 1992 team are in the Hall of Fame. How many HOFers on this team? Maybe five.

Or as Charles Barkley summed it up: "They learned from us. We didn't learn from them."

If Tyson Chandler had played more minutes, he would have shut Pau down, just as he would have shut down Patrick and the Admiral.

[kchoya]

Aug 13, 2012 14:01:38 GMT -5 hoyarooter said:

Aug 12, 2012 21:35:25 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Still no question. If 2012 couldn't handle Pau Gasol inside, try Patrick Ewing and David Robinson.

Eleven of the 12 members of the 1992 team are in the Hall of Fame. How many HOFers on this team? Maybe five.

Or as Charles Barkley summed it up: "They learned from us. We didn't learn from them."

If Tyson Chandler had played more minutes, he would have shut Pau down, just as he would have shut down Patrick and the Admiral.

Chandler? Heck, Hayes could have shut him down.

hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=25877&page=9#505285

[Deleted]

I figured that I would give it one more try and try to address why I consider several misconceptions;

1. The dream team would have had too much height.
Just no true. the 2012 had a 2 man rotation at center Chandler and 7'1" and Kevin Love 6'10" People underestimate Love in spite of the fact that he finished 6th in the league MVP vote and despite the fact that he is a phenomenol rebounder, excellent 3 point shooter (which would have brought Robinson and Ewing away from the basket). When you look at Love, he just doesn't seem like he should be as good as he is. BTW, he did an excellent job on Gasol (look at the replay). OK the dream team started Malone who was 6'9" and Barkley who was just under 6'5" with Pippen at 6'7" (real height) as the 3rd forward. Compare that to Durant and James, with Anthony 6'8" as the alternate.

Most important, the only really accurate 3 point shooter on the dream team was Mullins. Yes I know once in a while Jordan would shoot the 3, but he was not particularly accurate (somewhat like LBJ). The 2012 had Durant, Love, Anthony, Ron Paul, D. Williams, Kobe Bryant.
I would have liked to see Magic and Stockton try to guard, Kobe Bryant and Ron Paul or Russell Westbrook for that matter.

Bottom Line. In my humble opinion, the 1992 Dream team would lose to today's 2012 USA team, the spanish team, the Argentina team, the Russian team and probably Lithuania and Brazil.

The game has changed. The Heat were NBA champions without a true interior big man who stays in the center, The thunder has a good interior big man (Perkins) and he was ineffective.
The Heat barely beat the Celtics who also don't have an interior big man. The players today are bigger, faster, and more athletic. You guys have romanticized views of the player in 1992. Barkely was 6'4" and 3/4. He could never do today, what he did back then when the players were small and not as strong or as quick.

Once again, if you get a chance, watch the NBA games from the early 1990s and you will see what I mean. I just watched a classic when Jordan scored 69 points. There are just no comparisons. Team defenses were nowhere close to what they are today. While the pick and roll were run at that time, it has become an art form today and you didn't have the knock down 3 point shooters back then that you have today.

Enough of my thoughts

Jerry

[kchoya]

Aug 22, 2012 14:42:11 GMT -5 @jerrylh said:

I figured that I would give it one more try and try to address why I consider several misconceptions;

1. The dream team would have had too much height.
Just no true. the 2012 had a 2 man rotation at center Chandler and 7'1" and Kevin Love 6'10" People underestimate Love in spite of the fact that he finished 6th in the league MVP vote and despite the fact that he is a phenomenol rebounder, excellent 3 point shooter (which would have brought Robinson and Ewing away from the basket). When you look at Love, he just doesn't seem like he should be as good as he is. BTW, he did an excellent job on Gasol (look at the replay). OK the dream team started Malone who was 6'9" and Barkley who was just under 6'5" with Pippen at 6'7" (real height) as the 3rd forward. Compare that to Durant and James, with Anthony 6'8" as the alternate.

Most important, the only really accurate 3 point shooter on the dream team was Mullins. Yes I know once in a while Jordan would shoot the 3, but he was not particularly accurate (somewhat like LBJ). The 2012 had Durant, Love, Anthony, Ron Paul, D. Williams, Kobe Bryant.
I would have liked to see Magic and Stockton try to guard, Kobe Bryant and Ron Paul or Russell Westbrook for that matter.

Bottom Line. In my humble opinion, the 1992 Dream team would lose to today's 2012 USA team, the spanish team, the Argentina team, the Russian team and probably Lithuania and Brazil.

The game has changed. The Heat were NBA champions without a true interior big man who stays in the center, The thunder has a good interior big man (Perkins) and he was ineffective.
The Heat barely beat the Celtics who also don't have an interior big man. The players today are bigger, faster, and more athletic. You guys have romanticized views of the player in 1992. Barkely was 6'4" and 3/4. He could never do today, what he did back then when the players were small and not as strong or as quick.

Once again, if you get a chance, watch the NBA games from the early 1990s and you will see what I mean. I just watched a classic when Jordan scored 69 points. There are just no comparisons. Team defenses were nowhere close to what they are today. While the pick and roll were run at that time, it has become an art form today and you didn't have the knock down 3 point shooters back then that you have today.

Enough of my thoughts

Jerry

Either your the love child between Coach K and Kevin Love, or Chris Mullin kicked your dog, but you gotta come back to reality.

In my humble opinion, the 1992 Dream team would lose to today's 2012 USA team, the spanish team, the Argentina team, the Russian team and probably Lithuania and Brazil.

I can say with absolute certainty you are the only person on this planet that believes that. The only one.

BTW, he did an excellent job on Gasol.

Are you talking about Marc Gasol who scored 17 in 17 minutes on 8-10 shooting, or Pau Gasol, who went for 24-8-7?

The 2012 had Durant, Love, Anthony, Ron Paul, D. Williams, Kobe Bryant. I would have liked to see Magic and Stockton try to guard, Kobe Bryant and Ron Paul or Russell Westbrook for that matter.

Ron Paul? Ok, maybe you're the love child of Coach K and Sarah Palin.

The game has changed. The Heat were NBA champions without a true interior big man who stays in the center, The thunder has a good interior big man (Perkins) and he was ineffective.

You're right. The Bulls won six titles on the back of Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley starting at center.

Barkely was 6'4" and 3/4. He could never do today, what he did back then when the players were small and not as strong or as quick.

Charles would probably have better numbers today.

I just watched a classic when Jordan scored 69 points. There are just no comparisons. Team defenses were nowhere close to what they are today.

The bad boys laugh at your idiocy.

If you weren't so persistent and so wordy, I'd think you're a troll.

[bmartin]

The 2012,team did not even try to play solid defense and they could not score inside against Darius Songaila and Linas Kleiza, much less the Gasol brothers. The US attempted 36 threes per game and averaged 16 makes, with Durant and Anthony especially firing up shots from out there. The 2012 team was not a team at all but a group of one on one players. The 1992 team would have been able to guard the perimeter, control the paint, and get wide open shots. No contest.

[hoyarooter]

Everyone knows that Darius Songalia and Linus Kleinza >> Patrick Ewing and David Robinson.

Jerry, you usually seem like a pretty reasonable guy, but your opinion on this one is out beyond the galaxy.

I am, however, looking forward to hearing Ron Paul thank you for your support if he gets any air time at the Republican convention.

[Deleted]

That is your opinion. I believe that you have a romanticized view of players of 20 years ago. Robinson and Ewing played against much slower and smaller and weaker players back then. Answer this: Do you think that the 1992 Superbowl champs with their offensive lineman weighing 260-275 pounds could have stood up against the teams of today? Do you think that the World Champions in baseball back in 1992 could stand up against the teams today?? Obviously not. Why do you think basketball is any different??

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2012 19:18:22 GMT -5 bmartin said:

The 2012,team did not even try to play solid defense and they could not score inside against Darius Songaila and Linas Kleiza, much less the Gasol brothers. The US attempted 36 threes per game and averaged 16 makes, with Durant and Anthony especially firing up shots from out there. The 2012 team was not a team at all but a group of one on one players. The 1992 team would have been able to guard the perimeter, control the paint, and get wide open shots. No contest.

That is because teams packed it in against the USA hoping that they would be off on their 3 point shooting
You are sayiing that the 2012 did not even try to play solid defense?? You can't really believe that.
You said that the 2012 were a group of one on one players--Are you aware that the 2012 team set records for assists and Chris (Ron?) Paul set the all time Olympic record for assists in one game.
Lastly, you underestimate the skills of today's European players. That is why so many of them play in the NBA.
You really believe that the Dream Teams forwards Malone and Barkley could have effectively guarded James and Durant?? Really??

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2012 18:09:07 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Aug 22, 2012 14:42:11 GMT -5 @jerrylh said:

I figured that I would give it one more try and try to address why I consider several misconceptions;

.



Jerry

I can say with absolute certainty you are the only person on this planet that believes that. The only one.

You are wrong. Dead wrong.



Are you talking about Marc Gasol who scored 17 in 17 minutes on 8-10 shooting, or Pau Gasol, who went for 24-8-7?
No I am talking of the time when Love guarded him. He didn't shut him down, but he definitely limited him. As a matter of fact, the announcer even commented on his in the championship game.


Ron Paul? Ok, maybe you're the love child of Coach K and Sarah Palin.
OK you know who I meant, but you never addressed my point


You're right. The Bulls won six titles on the back of Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley starting at center.
My point exactly. Those guys couldn't ever make it today



Charles would probably have better numbers today.
Yea, right!! Your opinion

I just watched a classic when Jordan scored 69 points. There are just no comparisons. Team defenses were nowhere close to what they are today.

The bad boys laugh at your idiocy.

If you weren't so persistent and so wordy, I'd think you're a troll.

Kchoya-I have an even more important question for you. I have read many of your posts. Why is it, you find it necessary to launch personal attacks on posters who don't agree with you. It is childish and unworthy of a hoya.

[bmartin]

Yes the 1992 was a much better defensive team than the 2012 team and any team the 2012 team played in the Olympics. The 2012 was forced to rely on jumpers against the decent teams they played. The 1992 team would have contested more if those jumpers much more aggressively. Magic, Jordan, et al could guard.

The 2012 Olympics were weak enough that Russia won Bronze with no great players just by playing good defense. Argentina and Spain really did not play that well.

[Boz]

Wait. What happened to "enough of my thoughts"?


Not sure really why we're discussing this anyway. Neither the 1992 or 2012 teams would stand a chance against the 3012 Olympic team.

Lazar, Grotrian, Thorias, Armo and Aracneon are far superior to anyone playing today.

(Just as long as they don't have to go to their bench, which is - admittedly - a little weak.)

[kchoya]

Aug 23, 2012 3:59:18 GMT -5 @jerrylh said:

Aug 22, 2012 18:09:07 GMT -5 kchoya said:

I can say with absolute certainty you are the only person on this planet that believes that. The only one.

You are wrong. Dead wrong.



Are you talking about Marc Gasol who scored 17 in 17 minutes on 8-10 shooting, or Pau Gasol, who went for 24-8-7?
No I am talking of the time when Love guarded him. He didn't shut him down, but he definitely limited him. As a matter of fact, the announcer even commented on his in the championship game.


Ron Paul? Ok, maybe you're the love child of Coach K and Sarah Palin.
OK you know who I meant, but you never addressed my point


You're right. The Bulls won six titles on the back of Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley starting at center.
My point exactly. Those guys couldn't ever make it today



Charles would probably have better numbers today.
Yea, right!! Your opinion



The bad boys laugh at your idiocy.

If you weren't so persistent and so wordy, I'd think you're a troll.

Kchoya-I have an even more important question for you. I have read many of your posts. Why is it, you find it necessary to launch personal attacks on posters who don't agree with you. It is childish and unworthy of a hoya.

I'm not attacking you, I'm criticizing your insane posts in this thread. Let's narrow it down to this, point to one other person who agrees with you that "the 1992 Dream team would lose to today's 2012 USA team, the spanish team, the Argentina team, the Russian team and probably Lithuania and Brazil." One person.

[Deleted]

Sorry but "The bad boys laugh at your idiocy.

If you weren't so persistent and so wordy, I'd think you're a troll."

That is a personal attack and you do it frequently on this board. You need to think about it.

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2012 7:44:05 GMT -5 bmartin said:

Yes the 1992 was a much better defensive team than the 2012 team and any team the 2012 team played in the Olympics. The 2012 was forced to rely on jumpers against the decent teams they played. The 1992 team would have contested more if those jumpers much more aggressively. Magic, Jordan, et al could guard.

The 2012 Olympics were weak enough that Russia won Bronze with no great players just by playing good defense. Argentina and Spain really did not play that well.

Hi!

The starters for the 2012 team included 4 first or second team all defensive NBA players. the only exception was Durant and he was no slouch on defense.
Magic was not a top defensive player and neither was Barkley or Malone. the only top defensive players on the dream team were Jordan Pippen and Ewing.

Do you think that Malone could defend Labron James?
Do you think that Barkley at 6'4" could defend Durant?
Do you honestly believe that Stockton, Magic, or Drexler could stay in front of Paul, Williams and Westbrook??

I also disagree with you about your use of the word "decent" teams. Spain was DECENT??? Spain started 5 current NBA players including 2 NBA all-stars (the Gasol brothers), with one of the best NBA shot blockers (Ibaka) coming off the bench.
The Dream team never had to deal with that.
Furthermore, with the pick and roll becoming an art form, all players have to be able to guard all positions

Let me ask you this. Let's assume that you are correct and that the Dream Team would beat the 2012 team by 20 points as several of the posters have stated. My question is this.

How would explain the deterioration of the skills of the top players in the NBA over the past 20 years. You are arguing the the top NBA players were better 20 years ago than they are today.

Let me also ask, Could the Washington Redskins of 20 years ago with an offensive line averaging about 270 pounds beat last season's New York Giants or the New England Patriots??

Can you name any other team sports where where the top athletes were better 20 years ago??

[Boz]

I can answer all of those questions.

Here it is:

You are not convincing anyone. No one is convincing you. This is a purely hypothetical discussion that can in no way ever be resolved by statistics, measurements or EA Sports simulations.

It is a matter of OPINION and opinion only. Period.

You have yours. Nearly everyone else has theirs. But it's still just opinion based on a complete hypothetical.

But enough of my thoughts*.


(*But by all means, keep whaling away at that dead horse to your heart's content. God knows we beat our heads against brick walls on the political board every day.)