Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 26, 2012 14:23:47 GMT -5
The 1992 team also did not have any Syracuse players on it who punch like a little girl and then run away.
Advantage: Dream Team.
(OK, fine, it had Laettner, but he was a throwaway who pretty much just kept Charles Barkley's seat warm throughout the tournament).
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 26, 2012 14:38:46 GMT -5
Track-what records are 20 years old. I may be forgetting one or two, but I can't think of any that are 20 years old. However, that isn't even the point. the average olympian of today is faster and stronger than his or her counterpart from 1992 Assuming this link is accurate, there's lots of old records: www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/records/records.jsp?listId=1Also, doesn't FloJo or Jackie Joyner Kersee have a sprint record still standing from the 1980's? I love how you totally move the bar from "there aren't any old WRs" to "even if there are old WRs, athletes are faster today."  |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 26, 2012 14:53:10 GMT -5
No way that list is accurate. There's an Irish team on it.
;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 18:00:52 GMT -5
you are correct that there are some records back from 20 years. I had forgotten about the German field records from the 1980s. Most of those in events such as the hammer, shot put et were accomplished by the Germans during the 1980s. Almost all from the 80s which we know occurred before we were able to detect steroids.We know now that they were being given steroids by their government. It is much harder to use steroids today, although not impossible. The overwhelming majority of best times are within the past 10 years. There are also old records from events that aren't even run anymore.
The bottom line is that the vast majority of the high school, college and professional teams in any sport today, is infinitely better than those of 20 years ago. They are bigger, stronger, quicker and more accomplished. Do you dispute that??
If you get ESPN classic or NBA TV they have replays of past NBA games. Watch games from the era 20 years ago and you will see how primitive they are compared to the game today. Watch particularly the way defense was played then and how it was played today. The Miami heat won the NBA championship without a classic under the basket center and more and more teams are playing that way. Players today have to be able to guard any other player and any other position due to the wide use of pick and roll. That didn't used to happen 20 years ago.
BTW-I was not shifting, I was adding.
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Jul 31, 2012 10:12:24 GMT -5
The bottom line is that the vast majority of the high school, college and professional teams in any sport today, is infinitely better than those of 20 years ago. They are bigger, stronger, quicker and more accomplished. Do you dispute that?? I don't know that this thread really needs any more responses after the stupidity rubicon was crossed with the statement that Tyson Chandler would give (both) Patrick Ewing and David Robinson "fits," but there is, in fact, something to dispute as to the above quote: www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/sunday-review/why-olympic-records-are-broken-or-not.html |
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rpn6
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Post by rpn6 on Jul 31, 2012 12:21:24 GMT -5
The bottom line is that the vast majority of the high school, college and professional teams in any sport today, is infinitely better than those of 20 years ago. They are bigger, stronger, quicker and more accomplished. Do you dispute that?? I don't know that this thread really needs any more responses after the stupidity rubicon was crossed with the statement that Tyson Chandler would give (both) Patrick Ewing and David Robinson "fits," but there is, in fact, something to dispute as to the above quote: www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/sunday-review/why-olympic-records-are-broken-or-not.htmlYea I don't know how anyone could try to make that argument. The one thing I will say is that the guy making the swimming comparisons to the early 90's is using the 50 free which is the shortest and quickest event. The 200 or 400 would be a better comparison. That being said the .3 second difference between then and now is huge for such a short race at this level. Either way I have no qualms with anyone who says athletes then would be able to compete now. They would be subject to the same training and fitness knowledge we know now. |
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jul 31, 2012 12:25:46 GMT -5
The author compares the 1968 Olympics with the 2008 in relating track and field times. This comparison is a little skewed because the 1968 Olympics were in Mexico City, which is at altitude, so the sprints and the long jump benefited from the rare air up there. The distance events correspondingly suffered from the decrease presence of oxygen. Therefore, the difference in percentage of increase (decrease) in performances between sprints and distance events. |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 31, 2012 12:36:03 GMT -5
The author compares the 1968 Olympics with the 2008 in relating track and field times. This comparison is a little skewed because the 1968 Olympics were in Mexico City, which is at altitude, so the sprints and the long jump benefited from the rare air up there. The distance events correspondingly suffered from the decrease presence of oxygen. Therefore, the difference in percentage of increase (decrease) in performances between sprints and distance events. This is probably true. If Bob Beamon's jump had been at sea level, he probably would only have gone about 28'6". ;D |
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 31, 2012 18:14:26 GMT -5
I know that the genesis of this conversation was Kobe's comment that the 2012 team could beat the Dream Team, but by the "modern athletes are better" argument, shouldn't the 2008 team also beat the Dream Team? How far apart in time do two teams have to be to apply the "modern athletes are better" analysis?
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Aug 1, 2012 11:43:29 GMT -5
I know that the genesis of this conversation was Kobe's comment that the 2012 team could beat the Dream Team, but by the "modern athletes are better" argument, shouldn't the 2008 team also beat the Dream Team? How far apart in time do two teams have to be to apply the "modern athletes are better" analysis? Good point. Or what about the 2006 squad? The one with LeBron, CP3, D-Wade, Melo, and Dwight Howard? Such futuristic athletes would have eaten the original Dream Team's lunch. Never mind that they lost to Greece in the semis of the World Championships . . . . |
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Aug 1, 2012 11:57:19 GMT -5
The author compares the 1968 Olympics with the 2008 in relating track and field times. This comparison is a little skewed because the 1968 Olympics were in Mexico City, which is at altitude, so the sprints and the long jump benefited from the rare air up there. The distance events correspondingly suffered from the decrease presence of oxygen. Therefore, the difference in percentage of increase (decrease) in performances between sprints and distance events. This is probably true. If Bob Beamon's jump had been at sea level, he probably would only have gone about 28'6". ;D He also had the maximum allowable wind of 2.0 mps behind him, so the stars were aligned perfectly for that jump. A friend of mine was in the stadium at the time, and of course, he couldn't believe the jump. |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 1, 2012 14:48:05 GMT -5
The author compares the 1968 Olympics with the 2008 in relating track and field times. This comparison is a little skewed because the 1968 Olympics were in Mexico City, which is at altitude, so the sprints and the long jump benefited from the rare air up there. The distance events correspondingly suffered from the decrease presence of oxygen. Therefore, the difference in percentage of increase (decrease) in performances between sprints and distance events. Nevada, I am surprised you would use an argument like that in relation to Beamon's extraordinary WR Gold Medal jump. Did the slight 2 MPH wind help? Did the infinitesimal difference in air density help? Well... if it was a significant factor, why weren't all the other long jumpers achieving similar results? He beat the record by 2 FT! Wind and air density were non-factors in a result that dramatically different... and in the pre-PED era! |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Aug 1, 2012 18:52:17 GMT -5
How far did the other guys jump? Weren't they also in Mexico City with similar conditions?
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Aug 1, 2012 19:08:53 GMT -5
How far did the other guys jump? Weren't they also in Mexico City with similar conditions? I looked it up. The East German who won silver in 1968 jumped 26 ft 10 in, two feet and four inches less than Beamon, so the altitude and wind did not make anyone else fly. |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Aug 1, 2012 20:52:32 GMT -5
I don't think that's Nevada's point. I believe that if the wind had exceeded permitted levels, the record would have been disallowed. Of course, that would have been a preposterous result, but them's the rules.
I still remember sitting in my friend's dorm room freshman year at GU and watching that jump. I think my chin was on the floor. I turned to my friend and said that I thought that jump went well past 28 feet. Little did I know...
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 3, 2012 0:24:04 GMT -5
So, new OR for the 2012 team. Dream Team vs this team sure would be fun to watch.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Aug 3, 2012 9:51:19 GMT -5
Third highest team FG% ever in a game coached by Coach K. We all remember #1 on that list.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Aug 3, 2012 16:55:20 GMT -5
Actually, I was just relating what some of the nay-sayers had to say about Bob Beamon's jump over jumps. I was totally impressed and awestruck at that jump. Over the years people have brought up the altitude discussion and the fact that the wind was at its maximum allowable limit. We have learned that wind does make a difference in the sprints, so much that people have quantified it and have calculations that show what a 100m sprint would be under various wind conditions. I don't think they have quantified it for altitude, but each increase in elevation would benefit the sprinter. And besides LJ world records were set, I believe, in the 100m, 200m, and 400m (or at least two of the three; in the 400m, any assistance had to be from the altitude, because there are no wind readings taken for the full lap - wind that aids on one 200, deters on the other ), sprints that would benefit from the altitude. Of course, no world records were set at distances of 800m and above.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 4, 2012 14:35:28 GMT -5
99-94
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 4, 2012 15:56:45 GMT -5
Could Lithuania beat the original Dream Team?
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