GOT, Season 2

[SFHoya99]

Thought the episode last night was phenomenal; almost perfect. Shae just grates on me though.

Things I loved:

• It was directed by Alik Sahkarov, who is a veteran HBO cinematographer -- having done a lot of Sopranos and a couple of GOT episodes. But he had full reign here and killed it with the shots. From the smoothly transitioned shots of Tyrion laying his trap to the Iron Islands scenes -- all three -- the awesome show of Balon as Theon screamed at him; Theon's burning of the letter and betrayal of Robb; and his baptism -- just high level movie quality shots. Only shots I thought lacked a bit was the action sequence at the end, but that can be a function of budget.
  
  
• The Iron Islands: I love how the show is drawing out quickly the motivations that were either clear or implied in the books. Theon's sense of abandonment and desperation to belong, of course (as well as his sense of entitlement) as well as Balon's implied feeling of failure when he looks at Theon.
  
  
• The Renly plotline was just as good. Brienne is awesome -- there's no concern about her action sequences are there? And aside from being devastatingly hot, I love the politically savvy and pragmatic Margaery Tyrell, which is always hinted at but she never lets show in public in the books.
  
  
• Sansa was great - her turning on her maid as the one thing she's allowed to lash out at was fantastic writing and acting. It's one of those things you hate Sansa for, but it is human nature -- often the most oppressed are the quickest to push down others because no one wants to be at the bottom. And for a teenager, there's even less conscious thought.
  
  
• Varys and Tyrion can have as many scenes as they like. Conleth Hill is kind of becoming the jester in this whole thing, isn't he? If he didn't have his own motivations...
  
  
• I don't think Jon and Sam's scenes resonated as much with me as the others, but the question of political expediency and where you bend your morals is an important one. Jon bent in the prior episode a bit, but he's not ready to bend as far as Mormont has.
  
  
• Love Yoren's speech and it's nice to give some lead in to what comes later... Joffrey, Cersei, the Mountain, Polliver, The Tickler..." P.s. apparently that was Polliver who killed Lommy.
  
  
• Can't say I care about the changes. They are going straight to Harrenhal (fine, just missing some whining about walking) and I think we're skipping Courtney Penrose and Storm's End and going straight on with Renly (don't seem harm there). Shae's Sansa's maid earlier -- if this means more Sansa, I'm good. And we're moving out of Craster's with a bit more tension (okay).
  
  

[Boz]

Some of my thoughts.

Small Alert: I try not to post spoilers here, but to put some of this stuff in context, it's kind of necessary. If you have not read the books and want to remain completely in the dark, you might want to skip this.

1. I can't say how much I appreciate what the directors of this show are doing with Theon Greyjoy. In the novels, I found him entirely unsympathetic...until his redemption as Reek. There was almost no context provided for his betrayal. (OK, I'm not sure betrayal is the right word, since it is made very clear that he is not a Stark.) Quite frankly, his character was despicable in almost every way. On the show, they have provided much more of that needed context and I find that I am actually sympathetic to what his character is going through. Of course, he's about to do some terrible, unforgivable things anyway, but I think his character development right now sets the stage much better for his eventual fall and rise in future seasons.

One thing I don't like that much is his sister. I always got the sense in the books that she really did love and care for him, but felt that he had not yet earned the respect that she had. And I think she had a level of insecurity about her as well that is not being developed. Here, it is just outright and utter contempt for Theon. I think her character is better than that (again, as evidenced in the most recent book), but I'm not seeing it in the screen version.

Tyrion's trap was very cleverly done. I enjoyed that a great deal. Some minor tweaks here and there, but overall a lot of credit to the director there, as SF has already noted with other scenes.

I too find Shae to be pretty darn annoying right now, and I don't remember that so much from my reading. But, if I had to guess, I would say they are setting the stage for her eventual betrayal as well and providing some more justification for that than I think the books gave us.

I am also OK with a lot of the minor changes (no Lollys, Myrcella to Theon Greyjoy), because there's just no way to introduce so many characters. And hey, who wants to begrudge Sam a little quality time and emotional exchange with Gilly.

I am very interested to see the performance of Rose Leslie as Ygritte (she of "You know nothing, Jon Snow" fame). I've never watched Downtown Abbey, so I have no idea who this actress is, but I think Ygritte is a tremendously important character, so I hope she does well.

I'm also very much looking forward to the Harrenhall scenes, particularly the interactions between Arya and Jaqen H'ghar, and most particularly, their final scene.

[SFHoya99]

Spoilers do abound...

Boz, agree with you on Yara/Asha, though if the series goes long enough, she will get time to develop. Less so now.

I like the Theon context, and the Cersei context, etc. We see so many of these characters through a POV in the books -- which I love -- but there's something neat about seeing them here from a more omniscient narrator. Theon is still petulant and childish -- he worries more about his one ship than the fact that they are attacking Bran and Rickon and going against Robb -- but that doesn't mean his life is roses, either.

Shae is actually the character I find most annoying that they've fleshed out and altered. In the books, she is a gold-digging, dumb prostitute, and while she's an uninteresting character, it shows a lot about Tyrion. Having her be intelligent -- someone Tyrion could feel challenges him at time, changes that, and I'm not sure it's for the betterment of the story. The betrayal is stronger; Tyrion's weakness in believing she loved him is weakened. IMO.

[JB5]

A few more thoughts:

-- Catelyn's speech about "the knights of summer" was a bit undiplomatic, but I loved the way she delivered the line.

-- Great death scene for Yoren.

-- Maisie Williams had a wonderful moment as she thuoght of the way to save Gendry. Well played.

-- When Balon told his son the Starks had made him "weak," I couldn't halp thinking "rhymes with..."

[SFHoya99]

Apr 16, 2012 15:54:13 GMT -5 JB5 said:

-- When Balon told his son the Starks had made him "weak," I couldn't halp thinking "rhymes with..."

Awesome. The producers said early on that they just wanted to get through Book 3, in order to do a certain scene.

I may be getting greedy, but I think I will more enthralled by the Reek plotline.

[thebin]

"I wanted Mary Ann on Gilligan's Island ugly, not Cornelius on Planet of the Apes ugly. TV-ugly, not ugly-ugly."

What is that from? Killing me....

[Boz]

Apr 19, 2012 13:34:03 GMT -5 thebin said:

"I wanted Mary Ann on Gilligan's Island ugly, not Cornelius on Planet of the Apes ugly. TV-ugly, not ugly-ugly."

What is that from? Killing me....

www.snpp.com/episodes/BABF12

[Boz]

Joffrey, you are one sick [edited]!!!

[sleepyjackson21]

Great episode!

[Boz]

To avoid posting spoilers this week, I'll simply say that I agree with about 90% of the episode review on westeros.org.

I really don't understand why the change was made with respect to Robb Stark. It doesn't make much sense to me.

On the other hand, the change with respect to the Joffrey scene, while gratuitous, definitely served a purpose in showing the young king to be the monster that he is, and not just a brat spoiled by his mom.

Overall, some great scenes and, as usual, Tyrion/Peter Dinklage stole the show.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Yeah what the hell Joffery! You'd think a teenage boy would be able to put two girls to much better use than that. At least use them properly first sheesh.

And as someone who has not read the books. What the Hell just crawled out of her Vagina!

[Boz]

Apr 23, 2012 20:29:44 GMT -5 HoyaSinceBirth said:

Yeah what the hell Joffery! You'd think a teenage boy would be able to put two girls to much better use than that. At least use them properly first sheesh.

And as someone who has not read the books. What the Hell just crawled out of her Vagina!

I was wondering what the reaction to that would be from non-readers.

Yes, there are dragons in the show, and we've had hints of other supernatural elements (mainly through Bran, but also very early on with the White Walkers), but to this point, they have been pretty minor.

Mellisandre is really the first really explicit acknowledgement of the fact that, yes, there is still magic in this world. And it is going to play a big role in events to come.

Readers will have been prepared for that, but viewers not as much. I almost liken it to the moment that they made the island "move" on Lost. I think that turned some people off. I am wondering if it will do the same here. I hope not.

To answer your question, she is a naughty child and that is pure, concentrated evil coming out of her!
;D (thanks, Family Guy)

(I won't say anything else. It should be pretty clear next week.)

[SFHoya99]

Apr 23, 2012 19:52:20 GMT -5 Boz said:

To avoid posting spoilers this week, I'll simply say that I agree with about 90% of the episode review on westeros.org.

I really don't understand why the change was made with respect to Robb Stark. It doesn't make much sense to me.

On the other hand, the change with respect to the Joffrey scene, while gratuitous, definitely served a purpose in showing the young king to be the monster that he is, and not just a brat spoiled by his mom.

Overall, some great scenes and, as usual, Tyrion/Peter Dinklage stole the show.

I think it's way too early to worry about what's going on with "Talisa" from Volantis."

SPOILER ALERT: Jeyne's grandparent or great-grandparent from the book was from Volantis and I'm all but certain this is Jeyne but just lying since she's a noblewoman from the other side.

Sure, the open was a little typical, but so is nursing Robb while his wounds healed. If we're going to show the romance, might as well make it good, and there was nothing in the book.

[SFHoya99]

My favorite little added moment:

"My King is my husband and my husband is my King."

From most of the reviews and people commenting, I think most people missed Margaery's point: she -- and her money -- are not married to Renly. She is married to the King. If someone else is going to be King, that man can be her husband as well.

I think the episode was uneven at times, but like you, Boz, I thought there was a lot more to that scene than Joffrey is mean or shock value. In addition to taking it to a whole new level of sadism, his actions are clearly aimed at Tyrion, which is upping the ante.

Overall, I thought the episode was uneven at times, but I like the thematic of the trodden common man (amputated, tortured, tortured again, etc.), Catelyn with Ned's bones, and also, SHADOW BABY!

[SFHoya99]

Actually, come to think of it, there's a lot of criticism from book purists that TV-finger is somewhat incompetent.

Yet in his trip to Renly's camp, he:

1) Places an offer before Renly to betray the Lannisters, likely protecting himself if Renly does end up making it to KL and looks like the likely victor, where before Renly despised him.

2) Gets an understanding from Margaery (and thus Highgarden) that they are for sale if Renly somehow fails. The Reach (where Highgarden is) is the breadbasket of the nation and while not necessarily as rich as the Lannisters, is more populous.

3) Despite failing to get Cat on his side without making the Imp's offer, still intrigues her with Tyrion's potential trade -- so if she goes through with it, he will get credit with both the Lannisters and Catelyn, if not all the Starks.

[TC]

Apr 23, 2012 23:08:10 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

My favorite little added moment:

"My King is my husband and my husband is my King."

From most of the reviews and people commenting, I think most people missed Margaery's point: she -- and her money -- are not married to Renly. She is married to the King. If someone else is going to be King, that man can be her husband as well.

I'd side with the reviewers - I've only read books 1 and parts of 2, so I'm not sure if you are hinting at something in the future, but her point really seemed to be the opposite - I thought it was about loyalty - she was going to stick with Renly as her husband despite the situation and has no shame about it, and she didn't have any interest in aligning herself with anyone other than Renly.

"Don't talk about my wife."
"I'm not! I'm talking about other women."

[JB5]

I loved the Harrenhall scenes this week. They're doing a great job with Arya's story. And a great teaser for next week ("3 deaths").

I also like adding more of Robb's story, although we should see more of Jaime so he can say "There are no men like me." a few more times.

What did everyone think of Qarth? That part of the book underwhelmed me, but the scene was well done. Kudos to the credits team for finally moving beyond Vaes Dothrak. Was anyone else thinking Dany's refusal to show off her dragons was driven by lack of a CGI budget?

My favorite line: "Bronn, the next time Ser Meryn opens his mouth, kill him."

[SFHoya99]

Apr 24, 2012 12:08:41 GMT -5 TC said:

Apr 23, 2012 23:08:10 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

My favorite little added moment:

"My King is my husband and my husband is my King."

From most of the reviews and people commenting, I think most people missed Margaery's point: she -- and her money -- are not married to Renly. She is married to the King. If someone else is going to be King, that man can be her husband as well.

I'd side with the reviewers - I've only read books 1 and parts of 2, so I'm not sure if you are hinting at something in the future, but her point really seemed to be the opposite - I thought it was about loyalty - she was going to stick with Renly as her husband despite the situation and has no shame about it, and she didn't have any interest in aligning herself with anyone other than Renly.

"Don't talk about my wife."
"I'm not! I'm talking about other women."

I'm not really speaking in terms of the book -- though this scene could have happened in the book, neither is a POV character, as you know.

From my point of view, I think it's telling that Margaery did not say, "Renly is my husband." She married the King (and in a lot of ways, she made Renly a favorite, though that hasn't been clear enough on TV), not Renly.

She did it in a way that is totally deniable, but I think Littlefinger understands that Margaery wants to be Queen. That's her (and her family's) goal.

I like that it's not clear either way. You could be right; I could be right and even future events won't necessarily prove either of us wholly right.

[SFHoya99]

Apr 24, 2012 12:27:35 GMT -5 JB5 said:

I loved the Harrenhall scenes this week. They're doing a great job with Arya's story. And a great teaser for next week ("3 deaths").

I also like adding more of Robb's story, although we should see more of Jaime so he can say "There are no men like me." a few more times.

What did everyone think of Qarth? That part of the book underwhelmed me, but the scene was well done. Kudos to the credits team for finally moving beyond Vaes Dothrak. Was anyone else thinking Dany's refusal to show off her dragons was driven by lack of a CGI budget?

My favorite line: "Bronn, the next time Ser Meryn opens his mouth, kill him."

My overall favorite, I think: "There's no cure for being a Edited."

As for Qarth, Dany's storyline in Book 2 is pretty uneventful. I'm looking forward to the House of the Undying, but there's basically two plot points of note (HotU and Arstan) aside from wandering the desert and conversations with rich and powerful people.

The upside is that Xaro is the first of five characters we meet in Qarth, and I think they are all cast and since there's only five episodes left, it should move at a decent pace now, especially since I think the entirety of Ep 9 may be in KL.

---------------

As for the Dragons, I'm sure CGI played a role, but I also think Dany knew her one trump card is Dragons -- except those Dragons are small and defenseless -- and revealing them for less than what you need is giving away the last thing she has.

I realize its small, but she couldn't give in for nothing.

[prhoya]

Apr 24, 2012 14:17:37 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

, but I also think Dany knew her one trump card is Dragons -- except those Dragons are small and defenseless -- and revealing them for less than what you need is giving away the last thing she has.

I realize its small, but she couldn't give in for nothing.

This!
I liked that Anne Boleyn is Margaery.