GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 10, 2010 13:39:09 GMT -5
Really nothing has changed after last night's game, right? We still do not have a defensive identity and that means we're relying on our offense to be perfect essentially.
Now the good news is our offense is pretty perfect, as in could be the #1 offense in the country when all is said and done.
But we still do not know what kind of defensive team we are. We give up easy baskets without gambling. That combo means a sub-par offensive night usually winds up in a loss.
Our defensive effort has looked better this year. But I'm still concerned about our defensive strategy. We seem too passive for a team that is clearly quick, long, and deep, but oddly plays straight up in the half court most of the time without pressure exposing our only weakness which is pure size.
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by lurkerhoya on Dec 10, 2010 13:49:23 GMT -5
I think everyone has hit the nail on the head. The one thing that stuck with me was the lack of urgency on both ends of the floor. Offensively, it was more take what they give us rather than taking our chance at forcing the action and getting what we want. Defensively, it was like the opposite: let's see what they do and, oops, there goes a baseline cutter.
CBB requires more focus game-in and game out than the NBA. We know that. I just hope the players find that urgency again that made these first 8 games such a pleasure to watch.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by GUJook97 on Dec 10, 2010 13:50:44 GMT -5
A postscript--I saw somewhere a reference to one of those classic post-loss "let's compare ourselves to a Final Four team who did this!" exercises. This one compared our loss to Duke's loss at Wisconsin last season. Why we keep trying to turn Julian Vaughn and/or Henry Sims into Brian Zoubek, I don't know. There's a better--but not more comforting--analogy. A guard-focused team with a frontcourt rotation that, while big in numbers, wasn't very threatening and always below the surface a red flag for the team. One year ago this Monday, December 13, 2009 at the Liacouras Center: Temple 75 Villanova 65 It's strange to remember that when we beat Villanova in the Snowmageddonocalypse game, that was still their only loss--they were #2 and 20-1. And then...they also ended up in Providence, almost gagged a game to #15 Robert Morris, and were eaten alive by Omar Samhan. The lesson here: you can play very well and have a great season, but unless you work on correcting your weaknesses, they'll come back to you eventually. That's the challenge now for Georgetown, those weaknesses having hurt us in a game. Definitely been talking and thinking about that same analogy, too, right down to the way Temple beat them and the way teams like us were able to expose them. That being said, I think we just are that team. What's going to change? I'd take what Nova was last year. They just happened to play the wrong team in the NCAAs. They struggled down the stretch, but I also dont think they were as deep as we are this year.
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biggmanu
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by biggmanu on Dec 10, 2010 14:21:34 GMT -5
The frustration is because we were so so close to squeaking out a victory even though we obviously didn't bring our best performance to Philly last night.
I absolutely think this will be an opportunity for Austin, Jason, Chris, and JT3 to become better leaders. If we learn anything from this game it should be figuring out who is going to take the last shot in a no-time out pressure situation.
JT3 has a few things to learn as well. If we aren't hitting 3s, pounding the ball inside instead, and are dealing with a guy who's burning us with a 30pt performance, it then falls on the coach to adjust. I appreciate JT3s trust in his veteran players, but when the veteran player doesn't take the final shot it's concerning. When a guy just burned you for 30 points, I say screw trust and get someone who will play defense. The players let the coach down. And the coach is letting the players down if he is accepting of that defensive performance.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes the team is not going to have their best night collectively and the other team has a guy who is on fire. Steph Curry, Ohio, Temple last night for example. I want to see JT3 put that fire out, adjust personnel, pressure, change the tempo, use Nate, give an opportunity to a guy who is itching to play some defense, and win the game through pure coaching. I trust our veteran guys too, but I want to have that faith in JT3. Close games always come down to free throws and coaching. I love you JT3 but you could've squeaked the Temple game out yourself. And its on you to create a culture of dominant defense. Treat your players soft after that kind of performance and they will continue to play soft
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 10, 2010 16:55:27 GMT -5
What saddens me most about last night's performance is that Georgetown's point guard was unable to out-play Temple's point guard (even though they weren't guarding each other very often). I didn't think that would happen. Fernandez was really tough all night and was battling foul trouble for most of the night.
Wright was unable to get our offense clicking and into a flow. And he was largely ineffective pushing the pace for easy transition buckets.
This particular game gets me down because it realized all my fears heading into the season. That is, if teams can effectively guard our three-point shooters, we may not have alternative and reliable methods to score with inferior big men and guards who struggle to convert on drives to the basket.
Freeman was the only player successful driving to the hoop last night. But Wright, Hollis, and Clark were completely out of synch driving to the bucket. And Sims and Vaughn showed gave us very inconsistent post play when they touched the ball.
Let's hope this game turns out to be an aberration and not a signal of our worst fears realized.
I'll feel a lot better if we take care of the next 3 games heading into BE comp.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Dec 10, 2010 17:11:19 GMT -5
JT3 biggest flaw as a coach is getting his kids to play at a fever pitch every game.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Dec 10, 2010 18:14:40 GMT -5
Let's try to stay balanced here. It was a bad game all the way around--my television barely escaped "death by remote." However, every coach has flaws, including JT III and every team has weaknesses. The key is adapting and finding a way to cover for an area of weakness while exploiting areas of strength. JT III has done a good job of addressing concerns that many of us had this year--using the bench more, allowing the team to play a more uptempo game when the opportunity presents, and employing pressure defense. Am I happy that Hollis took the last shot--not in retrospect--it was a weak effort at best, but I think that he is going to be a big part of the future and I would rather have him trying and making mistakes than afraid to take the shot. I was much more concerned with the mistakes of the seniors than that of a sophomore. So the team has one loss--a bad loss to a decent but not great team. The team has another challenge coming at Memphis. Let's see how they respond.
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LeRoyHoya
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by LeRoyHoya on Dec 10, 2010 18:37:20 GMT -5
No reason to jump off the ledge. We lost to a good basketball team on their floor. Don't forget, we were very fortunate to beat them at home last year. I know looking at the schedule at the beginning of the season, I would have been very satisfied with the start to the season.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Dec 10, 2010 20:08:07 GMT -5
No reason to jump off the ledge. We lost to a good basketball team on their floor. Don't forget, we were very fortunate to beat them at home last year. I know looking at the schedule at the beginning of the season, I would have been very satisfied with the start to the season. Exactly. It took last minute heroics by Greg Monroe, an all-BE player and lottery pick who is no longer on the team, to beat Temple last year. On paper, last year's team was better than this year's. And Temple's defense was the best I have seen in a very long time. There's no way we were going undefeated. Yeah, a bit more control from Chris and Hollis in key situations, a lockdown defense on Moore, etc., could have won the game. But we're not going to play our flat-out best every game. Sometimes we're going to make mistakes and run into a team that has a hot night. We're good but we're not going to be great every night. It's not that bad a loss. Rushing the court? That was really lame of them.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Dec 10, 2010 20:35:06 GMT -5
I actually have to give Julian Vaughn some credit. I was at the gym today and I tryed to duplicate his free throw motion. I have to say its quite awkward. I think to be able to hit free throws like that shows just how talented JV really is. Personally I only went 6-10 and was under no pressure. I take my hat off to you sir.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 10, 2010 21:00:45 GMT -5
Too much hand wringing on all three boards if you ask me. The hand wringing part is that people are acting as if the team has not improved AT ALL in some key areas after the loss last night. And this comes soon after all the glowing remarks from most about how much better the team is and how it may be superior now that Monroe is gone, yada , yada.
We lost. We didn't look good much of the time last night. We need to get better. But thankfully JTIII schedues games like this. We could have been playing at home last night against scrubs like Ohio State did. Instead we went on the road to Temple. No, we just didn't play in Philly in the Sixers' arena...the team actually played in Temple's gym. Played in a building that Temple doesn't lose often in in front of a fired-up crowd. Didn't play our A game but still manage to lose by only three points on the road to a team who is a legitimate top 25 team.
I don't want to hear complaints about defense when there was less griping about that when the Hoyas gave up over 100 points to Missouri. We know Temple is not a great shooting team so perhaps the Hoyas were awful to give up 68 points to them. But its not as if Temple lit Gtown up like Ohio did. Temple shot 45% against the Hoyas and it was only that "high" thanks to the effort of one player. I agree that the Hoyas should have not let Moore go off like that against them. But if people are going to complain that Gtown allows other players to have career games against them, let's also be fair and point out how GTown also just as often takes out the leading scorers of teams too. Allen and Fernandez are Temple's two best players and yet both of them were very much contained last night. It makes the loss to Temple that more frustrating of course, but nonetheless taking care of those two guys should count for something.
Also has it been overlooked that Temple is a pretty good rebounding team and still the Hoyas outrebounded them by ten? Rebounding does seem to have improved for this team. That's a step in the right direction.
Besides the turnovers (a major problem) and the passiveness at times on both sides of the ball, my main issue is that Julian can't keep having these 3 of 9 shooting games and Hollis can't be on the floor for 23 or more minutes and give the team next to nothing.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Dec 10, 2010 23:28:48 GMT -5
Too much hand wringing on all three boards if you ask me. The hand wringing part is that people are acting as if the team has not improved AT ALL in some key areas after the loss last night. And this comes soon after all the glowing remarks from most about how much better the team is and how it may be superior now that Monroe is gone, yada , yada. We lost. We didn't look good much of the time last night. We need to get better. But thankfully JTIII schedues games like this. We could have been playing at home last night against scrubs like Ohio State did. Instead we went on the road to Temple. No, we just didn't play in Philly in the Sixers' arena...the team actually played in Temple's gym. Played in a building that Temple doesn't lose often in in front of a fired-up crowd. Didn't play our A game but still manage to lose by only three points on the road to a team who is a legitimate top 25 team. I don't want to hear complaints about defense when there was less griping about that when the Hoyas gave up over 100 points to Missouri. We know Temple is not a great shooting team so perhaps the Hoyas were awful to give up 68 points to them. But its not as if Temple lit Gtown up like Ohio did. Temple shot 45% against the Hoyas and it was only that "high" thanks to the effort of one player. I agree that the Hoyas should have not let Moore go off like that against them. But if people are going to complain that Gtown allows other players to have career games against them, let's also be fair and point out how GTown also just as often takes out the leading scorers of teams too. Allen and Fernandez are Temple's two best players and yet both of them were very much contained last night. It makes the loss to Temple that more frustrating of course, but nonetheless taking care of those two guys should count for something. Also has it been overlooked that Temple is a pretty good rebounding team and still the Hoyas outrebounded them by ten? Rebounding does seem to have improved for this team. That's a step in the right direction. Besides the turnovers (a major problem) and the passiveness at times on both sides of the ball, my main issue is that Julian can't keep having these 3 of 9 shooting games and Hollis can't be on the floor for 23 or more minutes and give the team next to nothing. I've been griping about defense for two years and specifically started a thread about it after the horrid performance against Missouri. Its the biggest flaw of this team and has been for two years. It's been easily overlooked because of other glaring issues and blamed on lack of focus, but we simply aren't a good defensive team. Our players have serious flaws that prevent them from being good individual defenders and we don't play defense as a team to hide the flaws either. Only one of those things can change and it better if we want to get better. It hasn't in two years though, and seems to have gone ignored this long, so I have serious doubts that it will be.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 11, 2010 12:48:36 GMT -5
Dear Austin Freeman,
You are really good. Please attempt more shots, even if you miss some early.
Thanks.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 11, 2010 13:47:18 GMT -5
I'm glad MCI finally came on with a more reasonable post.
I don't know how everyone lives their lives so negatively. I was not upset about that game. We lost it's annoying, but there was so much positive from this game. This is going to be a great experience for this team. They'll learn and get better.
We were far from perfect but we did a lot of things well and we did not suck as people here are claiming.
For all the crying about defense we actually got a lot of key stops and held them scoreless for several stretches. Temple hit more shots then they're used to hitting. That's pretty much it. I'm not saying we don't need to get better on defense. We absolutely do. But we played a tough opponent that was hitting tough shots. Julian was far from perfect, but he doesn't deserve the crap he got after this game. Their starting front court only scored 11pts. We out rebounded them. I thought we actually played the 2-3 zone very well on thursday.
This loss was not the same as our losses last year. People just take a few negative moments and it clouds their whole vision of the game. A shot falls here or there or we get a call here or there and the game has a different result.
We're going to be fine and this game will help us to become better. JTIII was clearly working to make our team better in this game. Maybe with less tinkering we win this game, but perhaps it costs us a game down the road. I'm very happy about what I saw from our guys last night. They never quit. Frankly I was not worried the entire game. Like chris said it seemed like we would win the entire game. We were calm and composed it just didn't bounce our way in the end. people can choose to view the game differently from me. but from my seat in the same row as FLHoya I was fine with our performance and our teams reaction.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 11, 2010 14:02:53 GMT -5
Dear Austin Freeman, You are really good. Please attempt more shots, even if you miss some early. Thanks. It really is so true. Is Austin ever denied his attempt to drive to the basket when he really endeavors to take it to the hole? He is near unstoppable and he can force teams to double him. He needs the ball in his hands and, yes, it falls upon him to a certain extent to go to the damn ball, but he needs to go Keyshawn on this team.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Dec 11, 2010 16:15:02 GMT -5
Dear Austin Freeman, You are really good. Please attempt more shots, even if you miss some early. Thanks. It really is so true. Is Austin ever denied his attempt to drive to the basket when he really endeavors to take it to the hole? He is near unstoppable and he can force teams to double him. He needs the ball in his hands and, yes, it falls upon him to a certain extent to go to the damn ball, but he needs to go Keyshawn on this team. During the game I was thinking that he is a lot like Jeff Green in this regard. You feel he can dominate whenever he wants to, and sometimes you just sit there frustrated, wondering why he is being so passive. AF was showing some emotion in the game, so it wasn't like he was dinterested. He just wasn't as aggressive as I would like to see.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 11, 2010 16:52:00 GMT -5
After my self-imposed two day layoff from this board after the outcome of the game ruined my mood yesterday, especially, as I had predicted that we would run the table - we made it at least about 20-25%, I am back with the living. I even congratulated my co-worker, ex-Temple bball player, Kevin Broadnax (no relation). Again, this loss will only be good, if we can make the appropriate changes, which will result in some great BE wins! (while avoiding the bad BE losses of last year.)
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 11, 2010 17:54:08 GMT -5
I don't mean to sound so down on the team an negative because I am not. I just am pointing out what I see as the biggest flaw we have and acknowledging that it is a lot bigger than effort and heart. These players can try as hard as they can and defense won't improve until we start CHANGING things.
That being said, I honestly believe if we fix our defensive issues, which is a big if, then we will be the best team in the country.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Dec 11, 2010 20:08:18 GMT -5
my main issue is that Julian can't keep having these 3 of 9 shooting games I don't thimk that's fair. In evaluating Julian's offense, you have to consider all the times he got to the line (4?) and scored. A more accurate, adjusted line would be 7 of 13.
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Post by wrestlemania on Dec 11, 2010 22:05:13 GMT -5
They don't seem to have anyone on the roster who can guard a small forward that can put the ball on the floor -- Benimon and Hollis would be the logical choices but I don't see it.
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