Nothing has changed

[Cambridge]

Nov 17, 2009 18:11:01 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

The rebounding was better. Lavoy Allen got it going in the second half, but last year he'd have had Blair-like numbers.

The defense was atrocious. Temple made 2-3 outside shots all game, but we gave them dunk after dunk in the second half.

In fact, if they could shoot FTs, they win.

The 2-3 zone was awful. They constantly lost the forwards as they cut in from the corners and as they darted into the key. The result = lots of dunks.

Also, on offense our perimeter players seemed to get stuck and failed to move/make cuts. It got stale.

On the positive, they actually showed some cojones down the stretch and gutted out a win against a legit opponent. Also, I actually thought the man to man defense was pretty good.

Also, more importantly - kudos to the boys for reversing the trend of losing from last year.

[grokamok]

Nov 17, 2009 20:27:07 GMT -5 hoyaalf said:

-amok, on 6) are you glad beantown retracted 'no spark,' or you do 'blame HT' for being 19 or what?

Confused

I thought HT brought some energy off the bench, so I was glad that #6 was retracted. I'm not surprised at Nikita's turnover when he was given the ball near the top of the key, but I'm also not surprised, sadly, that nobody bothered to pass the ball to him when he was wide open in his preferred spot; I can't tell you how many games are won because the top players are able to recognize that the role players can actually contribute if they simply play to their strengths. I *was* disappointed with Henry's play, but that's been noted enough already.

I'm happy that we won this one. I'm very happy that we went to Greg at the end -- I really think that offered us the best chance, strategically, and it reminded me a bit of a few plays that JG had in his career. It's fantastic that we didn't just wilt.

It's also great that in the first few games of the season, Big East teams have kept it together to win the close ones. Early losses by the conference to marginal teams have been a pet peeve of mine, and reducing or eliminating them will go a long way at tournament selection time. Knock on wood.

However, that doesn't mean that I don't see flaws that we can work to correct, and we'll have to if we want to be able to win against better OOC competition, to say nothing of competing in the the BE. We just can't expect our future opposition to give us such opportunities by missing so may open shots and free throws.

[richfame]

I think a question to ask is where are the points coming from this year? Sure lets give greg 20, lets give CW 18, and lets Give Free 20.. Thats on average 58 or so points a game. Were going to have to find consistency from Clark, vaughn , Sims Or Holis on the Offensive side, Especially if the big 3 have an off game or is plagued with foul trouble.....

[lichoya68]

we won and we will be just fine in my opinion JUST FINE go hoyas beat horace on sat at savannh state THIS IS NOT LAST YEARS TEAM FOLKS NOT LAST YEARS TEAM GO HOYAS

[lancasterhoyafan]

Nov 17, 2009 18:17:46 GMT -5 BeantownHoya said:

Look i would love to be wrong, but do people really feel they have seen a giant progression? Yes we won, i am thrilled, but did this game not look just like the last 18 from last year?

I think you're reading too far into it. We had a lot of open looks in the first half that didn't fall. Those shots will fall. Fran Dunphy and his team did a nice job adjusting and hitting shots around the 15 minute mark of the second half and our interior defense, as well as, anemic offense helped the Owls gain momentum. We need to keep in mind that this is November. Lets not forget that Temple has won the A-10 the past two years and Fran Dunphy has coached against the Princeton Offense 26 Years while at Penn. That Temple team has some athletes. When they get their offense going this year and start finding their identity, they'll be back in the tournament. My sleeper pick into the Sweet 16.

[GPHoya]

Put me squarely in the nothing has changed camp, except I expect to find it easier to root for Hollis than for Dajuan.

It is November, but film study should have taught Greg Monroe to not play matador defense at the top of the key during transition when his presence under the basket might discourage a lay-up. He still displays all of the ridiculous high school bad habits that may make him the most frustrating enigma ever to play for Georgetown.

Wright and Freeman likewise revert to their high school games under pressure.

I don't know where to start with Henry Sims. Perhaps the most damning comment is that I currently prefer Nikita and defintely prefer Julian.

JT III knows how to coach, but I don't see evidence that he knows how to coach these kids.

If you consider the sample size to include what the same players showed last season, it would be safe to predict a similar outcome to last year. If you want to throw last year out, you can hold out for a more positive outcome. Which is the more rational assumption?

There is a long way to go and it really does not matter much until January, but my expectations have been managed.

[bigelephant]

Hats off to lancasterhoyafan for remaining so positive after the long trip to see a Listerine game ( you go home and rinse out your mouth to get rid of the bad taste )!
I was depressed yesterday but today I'm ready to look at the bright side. GO HOYAS

[the_way]

i think we have to give it time.

yeah, we kinda look like the same team from last year. but aside from Jesse and DaJuan, we are mostly the same team from last year.

its early though. give it some time.

i think the key to this year is where the leadership will come from on the roster and what kind of identity will we have.

they say we weren't on the same page last year and there was a lack of chemistry.

well, let's see how it plays out this time around.

who will step up in a leadership role,and what kind of identity will form as this team evolves this season.

that will make us or break us this year.

[lancasterhoyafan]

We will see a much better/different team come mid January into March. It's evident, we're going to face a few bumps in the road leading up to the meat of our schedule. The early season is set up to be a barometer, a learning curve, a cohesiveness and confidence builder for these guys. Also, to the guys complaining about the lack of depth in our rotation, give JTIII a chance and relax. Come January I anticipate that Vee, Nikita, Jerelle, will all be contributing in their own rolls...probably minimal but these guys will be used to spell some of the starters without a drastic drop in the level of play on the court. The sky isn't falling.

[NCHoya]

Sometimes I think we forget the other team is on scholarship too, and in this case, had a head coach that is generally regarded as a great coach AND had faced the Princeton offense for years at Penn with great success.

At this point in the season, no team really plays well except Duke, who then flames out by February. If you guys want that then fine, but I would prefer us to gradually figure it out on offense and be at our best come March.

Look at Kentucky against Miami of OH? UCLA? Kansas? Seriously, there are some very talented teams that have struggled. How about KU only scoring 57 with all of those 5 star recruits and returning all-americans? Honestly, November college basketball is so ugly and has very little correlation to March performance. How many times has Mich State looked awful in Nov/Dec and won the Big Ten? The goal is to get ugly wins and figure out your team. We are a classic work in progress that pulled out the ugly win, fine with me.

The only real negative takeaway that may mean something was Sims complete lack of performance and the fact we cannot play a 2-3 zone right now. Those two factors were nearly all responsible for that big Temple run. They are also correctable.

[skyhoya]

The final four team had it's bumps in the road early in the year. It will take a few games for this team to start to gel. Some of the roles for players really need to be further defined by III. He already increased Hollis's PT last night, however, his shooting was dead from the floor except for the one layup. Hollis has the skills to succeed on this team, this season.

This line up will change by the start of the BE and then change again before the BET.

[lancasterhoyafan]

Nov 18, 2009 10:37:26 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Sometimes I think we forget the other team is on scholarship too, and in this case, had a head coach that is generally regarded as a great coach AND had faced the Princeton offense for years at Penn with great success.

At this point in the season, no team really plays well except Duke, who then flames out by February. If you guys want that then fine, but I would prefer us to gradually figure it out on offense and be at our best come March.

Look at Kentucky against Miami of OH? UCLA? Kansas? Seriously, there are some very talented teams that have struggled. How about KU only scoring 57 with all of those 5 star recruits and returning all-americans? Honestly, November college basketball is so ugly and has very little correlation to March performance. How many times has Mich State looked awful in Nov/Dec and won the Big Ten? The goal is to get ugly wins and figure out your team. We are a classic work in progress that pulled out the ugly win, fine with me.

The only real negative takeaway that may mean something was Sims complete lack of performance and the fact we cannot play a 2-3 zone right now. Those two factors were nearly all responsible for that big Temple run. They are also correctable.

Very well said. I think Savannah State is a great game to work on correcting these things.

[CAHoya07]

Well, one thing has changed from last year: We won the game. Also, isn't great that Greg finally stepped up when we needed him to?

It's early in the season. The team obviously has a lot of things to work on. But as god awful ugly as it was, we won a close game against an opponent that was not a pushover.

We now have some "easy" games against Savannah State, Lafayette, the Mount, and American. Hopefully we can take care of business in these games and start working some things out before Butler and Washington. Onward and upward.

[lancasterhoyafan]

Nov 18, 2009 10:54:04 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

Well, one thing has changed from last year: We won the game. Also, isn't great that Greg finally stepped up when we needed him to?

It's early in the season. The team obviously has a lot of things to work on. But as god awful ugly as it was, we won a close game against an opponent that was not a pushover.

We now have some "easy" games against Savannah State, Lafayette, the Mount, and American. Hopefully we can take care of business in these games and start working some things out before Butler and Washington. Onward and upward.

Note: The Mount and American both won their respective League tournaments last year for the right to play in the Dance!

[CAHoya07]

Nov 18, 2009 10:59:01 GMT -5 lancasterhoyafan said:

Nov 18, 2009 10:54:04 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

Well, one thing has changed from last year: We won the game. Also, isn't great that Greg finally stepped up when we needed him to?

It's early in the season. The team obviously has a lot of things to work on. But as god awful ugly as it was, we won a close game against an opponent that was not a pushover.

We now have some "easy" games against Savannah State, Lafayette, the Mount, and American. Hopefully we can take care of business in these games and start working some things out before Butler and Washington. Onward and upward.

Note: The Mount and American both won their respective League tournaments last year for the right to play in the Dance!

Note: That's why I said "easy." But all should not be as difficult as Temple was.

Separate notes: The Mount did not win the Northeast Conference tournament and ended up playing in the College Insider Tournament. However, they gave us fits at Verizon last year before we pulled away and won by 11.

AU gave Villanova a tough game in the first round last year, but I do know that they lost a lot of seniors and are not expected to be as good as last year, when we beat them 73-49.

Next up: at Savannah State. Go Hoyas.

[lancasterhoyafan]

Nov 18, 2009 11:23:54 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

Nov 18, 2009 10:59:01 GMT -5 lancasterhoyafan said:

Note: The Mount and American both won their respective League tournaments last year for the right to play in the Dance!

Note: That's why I said "easy." But all should not be as difficult as Temple was.

Separate notes: The Mount did not win the Northeast Conference tournament and ended up playing in the College Insider Tournament. However, they gave us fits at Verizon last year before we pulled away and won by 11.

AU gave Villanova a tough game in the first round last year, but I do know that they lost a lot of seniors and are not expected to be as good as last year, when we beat them 73-49.

Next up: at Savannah State. Go Hoyas.

Oops. I should have checked my facts.

[chep3]

Nov 18, 2009 9:39:38 GMT -5 GPHoya said:

If you consider the sample size to include what the same players showed last season, it would be safe to predict a similar outcome to last year. If you want to throw last year out, you can hold out for a more positive outcome. Which is the more rational assumption?

Maybe you'll end up being right, but I don't believe it's that "irrational" to hope/expect/want players to develop during the year. Take guys like Henry or Hollis. They practice presumably over the offseason and improve on their games. But until they actually start playing against other competition, that development can only go so far. Young players tend to get better as they get more accustomed to being out there, and I'd give them more than 1 game (especially given the fact that we looked good in our other game this year) to decide.

Also, I'm not ready to bury the 2-3 zone. We looked a ton better in man yesterday, and flat out awful in teh zone. But I thought the zone worked well against Tulane, and maybe this was just a matter of poor execution (or good zone offense by Temple) on this given day.

[GPHoya]

Anyone can improve and Roy Hibbert and Charles Smith seemed to do it continuously. Greg, Chris and Austin look like they have hit a plateau last January. Some guys with great reputations never get off it--Al Dutch comes to mind. Some break through and get to a new level or become more consistent in playing at a high level--Jeff Green midway through his sophomore year.

The light has not gone on for Henry--maybe it will, maybe not. Playing time is an issue that counsels more patience, but label me very skeptical

Hollis will surely contribute more and has enviable tools. Jason Clark is still growing too.

If Greg, Chris and Austin don't find another level on a fairly consistent basis, Jason, Hollis and Julian will not be able to overcome that. The recurrence of fundamental mental and intensity errors that must surely have been a coaching focus is the source of my current despair.

[swhoya]

GP, I don't disagree with what you wrote, but you also gloss over the significance of one of your points--that Jeff Green didn't make a huge leap until midway through his sophomore year. To my mind, the Duke game was the first time when Jeff Green turned from a solid player into...Jeff Green.

So to point out that it took Jeff until midway through his sophomore season to really take off, while simultaneously saying Greg plateued last January is inconsistent. Maybe he'll get there, maybe he won't (although I think it's pretty unfair to say that if Greg doesn't hit Jeff's level, he's a failure. Jeff was a pretty unique and exceptional player), but I take issue with all the comments that nothing has changed. It's still early in the season--and still VERY early in a lot of these guy's careers and development.

[hoyarooter]

A Listerine game? Well, after watching the Lakers play possibly the worst half in team history against Denver, followed by another stinkbomb against Houston after leading 16-2, followed by UCLA, followed by GU, there isn't enough Listerine in the state of California to get rid of the stench. I feel as though I've been wallowing in slime.

More seriously, I'll join the win is a win brigade. Henry and Julian combined to put up more than decent numbers against Tulane, so I wouldn't totally give up on them yet. And we WILL shoot better from outside than we did yesterday. There are clearly things to work out, but gutting out the win after we fell behind by six counts for a lot.