hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Dec 3, 2008 15:33:53 GMT -5
I mean that literally - I'd like for someone from the athletic department to exchange ideas with real people instead of having the whole AD operating behind a curtain, emerging only to make occasional pronouncements (and usually disappointing ones) Good one
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Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 3, 2008 18:23:06 GMT -5
Winning cures a lot of ills. Basketball knows that quite well. (And to the poster that claims men's basketball is on a shoestring budget, that's simply not true. Based on 2007 EADA reports and a web site tracking such things, Georgetown's men's basketball spending is now among the highest anywhere in the nation. Let's put that claim to rest.)The fact is no one under 30 knows what it's like to be at a Georgetown football game when they were winning 49-6 or 54-7, much less road games when it stuffed Cornell by three touchdowns. Or the 1998 Homecoming game where an athletic official walked by and told me he was worried that students might try to rush for the Kehoe goalposts...which were actually bolted into the concrete, which would have been something to see. Georgetown wasn't accepted into the PL because it was a nice name and a bad field, it did because it was winning and winning big. If that was a 2-9 team in 1999 instead of 9-2, this is a different conversation. But this MSF inertia is not just a football issue but a University one--it seems no one wants to publicly commit to anything, because when you do, someone is then held accountable for it. Name your project: the science center, library expansion, fixing the turf at Kehoe Field, the MSF, the unfunded Thompson practice facility, the renovation of Darnall Cafeteria, the New South "student center", et al.: without a committed date, you're never exactly behind schedule. I know this post will come off as trite, but I actually think there is a kernel of truth. Georgetown's draconian treatment of alcohol killed the football program. DFW, you brought up homecoming 1998. I was there as a freshman. It was amazing. The entire parking lot full of alumni grilling, drinking, socializing; what felt like almost the entire student body having a blast in the parking lot and for the lucky few who could fit, in the stadium; and to top it off an amazing game! Unfortunately, in the aftermath of that game, photos of homecoming were printed in the Hoya featuring recognizable freshman with beers in hand. The university went ape Edited and instituted the closed lot system. Eventually, they tore out the lot and turned it into dorms; no more tailgate. Say what you will, but until students are allowed to act like students at a football game, there will be no program. Most college students aren't dedicated sports fans, they are just kids looking for a fun time with their friends. That holds true here, the SEC, the PAC10, everywhere. Sure, there are diehards who follow the message boards, but most just want to go out, get drunk and feel part of something big. I saw what it was like before, and I remember what a travesty it had become by my senior year -- "tailgating" in a gated parkinglot reserved only for seniors carrying IDs on the former baseball field, anyone? No cars allowed unless you parked it the night before...uggg.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 3, 2008 18:28:16 GMT -5
Prohibitions against beer at games are not unique to zip code 20057; but it seems that a lot of schools have figured out how to deal with it while Georgetown still seems baffled by the whole process.
BTW, the NCAA bans beer sales at all on-campus facilities nationwide. NBA arenas get a waiver but the day will come when the NCAA will turn off the taps at basketball games as well.
But as to the topic at hand...get the dirt flying.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Dec 3, 2008 20:06:28 GMT -5
Hoyanyr sounds like he was a bundle of fun in college...wish i could have a beer with you...epic FAIL Believe me- you can ask St.Pete and DudeSlade- I had my share of fun pre-gaming football games and attending homecoming tailgates. I'm all for tailgating. However, what went on in Lot T (at least the two years I was there) was not a football tailgate. The lot stayed open all the way through the game and there were often bigger crowds in the parking lot than in the stands. It wasn't about having a beer and eating BBQ or even getting buzzed for the game- it was about getting wasted on Keystone Light and passing out for the afternoon. I agree with 007 though- maybe if you can harness that desire to tailgate into putting people into the seats- then it's definitely worthwhile. Big football schools organize tailgates but ensure that they end at kick-off. I'm all fort that - especially if GUGS would grill for these.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 3, 2008 22:35:01 GMT -5
Re: the beer issue, someone mentioned they just attended the Harvard-Yale game. I don't know if things have changed, but as a GU sophomore nobody blinked when I asked for a beer at what appeared to be the official Harvard alumni association tailgate.
It seemed to be a good setup to me -- let the alums run the tailgate and give out free beer to students, but limit the number of kegs at the tailgate and shut off the tap at gametime.
Re: people paying attention at football games, I assure you very few people were paying attention to the football game when Baylor played Texas in Austin this fall. This "problem" is certainly not limited to Georgetown or I-AA football schools.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 4, 2008 15:10:08 GMT -5
Re: the beer issue, someone mentioned they just attended the Harvard-Yale game. I don't know if things have changed, but as a GU sophomore nobody blinked when I asked for a beer at what appeared to be the official Harvard alumni association tailgate. It seemed to be a good setup to me -- let the alums run the tailgate and give out free beer to students, but limit the number of kegs at the tailgate and shut off the tap at gametime. Re: people paying attention at football games, I assure you very few people were paying attention to the football game when Baylor played Texas in Austin this fall. This "problem" is certainly not limited to Georgetown or I-AA football schools. I agree with Austin. The idea that college football, or any college sport for that matter, should or can be sustained by passionate and knowledgeable fans who live and die for every play is laughably naive. College kids are college kids, and alumni fans act like college kids when they go to games. You take that away? They stay away. End of story. The myth that the big schools are any different needs to die and awful death. It's simply not true. It's not true at GU or any of the other DI schools I've had the pleasure of seeing games: UT, UVA, Cal, Stanford, UMich, VTech, Harvard, Yale. That's not to say the crowd wasn't into the game, but it was more the carnival atmosphere inside and outside of the stadiums that made the experience. The key -- make the "Game Day" experience more enjoyable. That means opening up the tailgate, letting alumni and students cut loose, organizing fun activities and making it seem like something an average student would actually want to go to. Winning won't cut it by itself and besides, if that's the recipe for making the football team relevant, good luck waiting for godot. There is no time for purists, bring in the casual fans.
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Post by hoyahopeful on Dec 4, 2008 15:33:01 GMT -5
I've been reading this thread and it seems to have gotten off the track of discussing the MSF. Here are just a few thoughts about the topics covered:
The pictures of the MSF sure are pretty. I think the pictures that we saw about four years ago were prettier, but I wonder how many people can fit into a picture of a stadium. I trust nothing that is put out by the athletic department with respect to football and if these pictures are shown to any current recruits, I think the program should be ashamed of itself. Ask any player that has graduated in the past five or six years how they feel about promises of improved facilities. Then ask them how much they plan to contribute to the program. Both answers will be very sad.
I am a football fan, so I might not be the best judge of what gets people to the games. Maybe it's the party, but my experience is that people don't like to party with losers. So until this team starts winning or until they only schedule one home game each season and call it Homecoming, people will stop caring by about the third quarter of the first game each season. People love winners and love to identify with winners. Ugly stadiums, malfunctioning scoreboards, and lousy tailgating facilities are all tolerated when the team wins. Then the real parties start after the games...not just before the games.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 4, 2008 15:35:06 GMT -5
I've been reading this thread and it seems to have gotten off the track of discussing the MSF. Here are just a few thoughts about the topics covered: The pictures of the MSF sure are pretty. I think the pictures that we saw about four years ago were prettier, but I wonder how many people can fit into a picture of a stadium. I trust nothing that is put out by the athletic department with respect to football and if these pictures are shown to any current recruits, I think the program should be ashamed of itself. Ask any player that has graduated in the past five or six years how they feel about promises of improved facilities. Then ask them how much they plan to contribute to the program. Both answers will be very sad. I am a football fan, so I might not be the best judge of what gets people to the games. Maybe it's the party, but my experience is that people don't like to party with losers. So until this team starts winning or until they only schedule one home game each season and call it Homecoming, people will stop caring by about the third quarter of the first game each season. People love winners and love to identify with winners. Ugly stadiums, malfunctioning scoreboards, and lousy tailgating facilities are all tolerated when the team wins. Then the real parties start after the games...not just before the games. I'll flip that on its head too. Horrible teams are tolerated when everything else functions.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 4, 2008 15:49:39 GMT -5
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SoCalHoya
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No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Dec 4, 2008 16:33:53 GMT -5
Georgetown's my Rushmore. Does anyone know of a Mr. Blume that could help us out there? Finishing the MSF would be a lot easier than an aquarium, at the very least.
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Post by hoyahopeful on Dec 4, 2008 16:46:59 GMT -5
I would be interested in some examples. New shiny sports facilities draw people temporarily, but my experience is that it is all about the team. The Washington Nationals are learning that quickly and just up the road, the Orioles learned that too. When the team started to fail, that great stadium wasn't filling up any longer.
I think the same holds true in college football. Byrd stadium up the road is no big deal for a FBS program. But when they win, the stands fill up. And when the Terps lose, there are a lot more empty seats.
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Post by 98hoya on Dec 4, 2008 19:23:11 GMT -5
Georgetown's my Rushmore. Does anyone know of a Mr. Blume that could help us out there? Finishing the MSF would be a lot easier than an aquarium, at the very least. Sic transit gloria, socalhoya.
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Post by 98hoya on Dec 4, 2008 19:26:25 GMT -5
I've been reading this thread and it seems to have gotten off the track of discussing the MSF. Here are just a few thoughts about the topics covered: The pictures of the MSF sure are pretty. I think the pictures that we saw about four years ago were prettier, but I wonder how many people can fit into a picture of a stadium. I trust nothing that is put out by the athletic department with respect to football and if these pictures are shown to any current recruits, I think the program should be ashamed of itself. Ask any player that has graduated in the past five or six years how they feel about promises of improved facilities. Then ask them how much they plan to contribute to the program. Both answers will be very sad. I am a football fan, so I might not be the best judge of what gets people to the games. Maybe it's the party, but my experience is that people don't like to party with losers. So until this team starts winning or until they only schedule one home game each season and call it Homecoming, people will stop caring by about the third quarter of the first game each season. People love winners and love to identify with winners. Ugly stadiums, malfunctioning scoreboards, and lousy tailgating facilities are all tolerated when the team wins. Then the real parties start after the games...not just before the games. Winning is ONE way to promote a good game-day atmosphere. Unfortunately, it's harder to create a winning team than it is to allow kids to use the game as a chance to BBQ, knock back a couple of beers and listen to music.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 4, 2008 20:03:17 GMT -5
I would be interested in some examples. Sticking just to CFB, here are a few teams drawing good crowds despite recent/current rough patches: Ole Miss Nebraska Texas A&M K-State Michigan Notre Dame Purdue Washington
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HoyaNyr320
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,233
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Dec 4, 2008 20:30:13 GMT -5
Re: the beer issue, someone mentioned they just attended the Harvard-Yale game. I don't know if things have changed, but as a GU sophomore nobody blinked when I asked for a beer at what appeared to be the official Harvard alumni association tailgate. It seemed to be a good setup to me -- let the alums run the tailgate and give out free beer to students, but limit the number of kegs at the tailgate and shut off the tap at gametime. Re: people paying attention at football games, I assure you very few people were paying attention to the football game when Baylor played Texas in Austin this fall. This "problem" is certainly not limited to Georgetown or I-AA football schools. I agree with Austin. The idea that college football, or any college sport for that matter, should or can be sustained by passionate and knowledgeable fans who live and die for every play is laughably naive. College kids are college kids, and alumni fans act like college kids when they go to games. You take that away? They stay away. End of story. The myth that the big schools are any different needs to die and awful death. It's simply not true. It's not true at GU or any of the other DI schools I've had the pleasure of seeing games: UT, UVA, Cal, Stanford, UMich, VTech, Harvard, Yale. That's not to say the crowd wasn't into the game, but it was more the carnival atmosphere inside and outside of the stadiums that made the experience. The key -- make the "Game Day" experience more enjoyable. That means opening up the tailgate, letting alumni and students cut loose, organizing fun activities and making it seem like something an average student would actually want to go to. Winning won't cut it by itself and besides, if that's the recipe for making the football team relevant, good luck waiting for godot. There is no time for purists, bring in the casual fans. Can we at least agree that fans should be encouraged to actually go into the stands as opposed to tailgating through the game? I'm not trying to set some kind of a fan standard here- I just want there to be interest in attending the game itself. Winning would certainly help!
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Post by 98hoya on Dec 4, 2008 21:42:55 GMT -5
Look, I'm one of those dorks who has my butt in the seat 15 minutes before kickoff, even in games that I know we're going to lose by 30+. I think I fairly count myself in the top 1% of most dedicated fans.
With that in mind, I agree fans should be encouraged to go into the stands, but if they choose instead to just hang out in the end zone (my hypothetical endzone tailgate area), even that would be a huge improvement over the current situation. I'd rather have people apathetic about the game itself, but enthusiastic about the event; as opposed to being overall apathetic toward being at MSF on Saturdays in the fall. I say get the folks there, let them have fun, and it becomes an EVENT. If the team starts winning, people will start migrating to seats in greater numbers.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 5, 2008 1:52:26 GMT -5
I'm just saying I think you're putting the cart before the horse if you are trying to regulate how people enjoy the experience before they even get there. You are worried about a problem that doesn't exist -- fans tailgating and having so much fun they ignore the game -- and not focusing on the real problem -- there are no fans, not even fans tailgating. I'd rather have the former problem, then, and only then, would I start wondering how to solve the later.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Dec 5, 2008 10:44:41 GMT -5
I agree with the last two posts completely. How can we argue about what these fans should be doing during the game when they dont even exist right now. Lets get these people over to the MSF area, create a fun atmosphere for every home game, and then hopefully get a good amount of them to actually watch the game.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 5, 2008 12:01:59 GMT -5
Distressing development on the one hand, and hell if it means they are actually going to FRIGGEN MOVE ON THIS THING then that's not all bad. But by that I mean as in getting this sucker ready for next season. This looks like a project that can be done in 6 months. If this is a new hypothetical redesign to maybe build in a couple of years, it sucks all around.
Hard to tell from this rendering- are those permanent bleachers? Concrete reinforced, won't shake under foot real stadium bleachers? If so, although the loss of the 4 gothic towers aesthetically takes it from nice little college stadium to nice high school stadium, it's a huge improvement. Maybe this is just another attempt to break up a really nice stadium into even more stages, adding the towers later?
By the way Gtown....for reals? Did you really just sneak in a new 4th re-design onto that antiquated looking athletics page nobody visits? That's it? How much did this new re-design cost? And that's the launch huh?
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Dec 5, 2008 12:11:10 GMT -5
Yeah, sure. The day they actually finish this thing is the day a black man is elected president. Oh wait.......change that to woman.
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