PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 14:38:39 GMT -5
Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 17, 2009 14:38:39 GMT -5
we haven't gotten a top recruit in 15 months? Last I looked, Nate was still committed to us Last I looked, Markel's still committed to us Both are top recruits Both committed to us within the last 15 months Back away from the chicken little stuff please....you and you're chicken little partner in worry Hoyaboya errr yeah, starks and lubick commited to us spring 08 which was 15 months ago. Has there been any since? In the interim we have had one decommit rumors of another and several transfers. These r just the facts. I guess u think this is normal and the path to the final four?
|
|
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 14:48:19 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 17, 2009 14:48:19 GMT -5
One de-commit from a guy who was Editeded off that he got eaten up during his visit by Henry and Greg, heard that he wasn't going to play big minutes as a freshman and bailed.
One transfer from a back-up big, which really didn't hurt that much
One transfer from a back-up guard, which I admit, hurt alot
One transfer from a back-up guard which won't hurt at all
and to answer your question, yes it's normal for kids to transfer. It happens every year, to almost every program in the country.
You just want to be negative for the sake of being negative. I really question whether you're a fan, and if so of what program, because it can't be a fan of OUR PROGRAM. All you do is spew negativity around the board. It's been like that through the entire off-season. I'm sick of it, and I'm sure others are too.
All you do is spit crap about the system. Your act is really tiring. If all you have is negativity, just leave the board. It's ok to criticize sometimes, but you nag and nag the REAL FANS of this board about the same thing over and over again. You and Hoyaboya, who had the nerve to say something asinine like Chris and Austin are "failures" and "underachievers".
It's tiring. And you guys are the poster children for wackness
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 14:52:40 GMT -5
Post by RBHoya on Jul 17, 2009 14:52:40 GMT -5
errr yeah, starks and lubick commited to us spring 08 which was 15 months ago. Has there been any since? Fall '08, so about 9 months ago. I agree that we're in something of a cold spell as compared to say late '05 through '06 when it seemed like we were landing almost whoever we wanted (Summers, Macklin, Freeman, Wright, Braswell, Clark) while passing on some talent that wanted to come here (Reynolds, Vaughn [the first time around], McClain, etc). But that said, even as weak as we finished in the 2009 recruiting class, if we can keep Markel and Nate our 2010 recruiting class will be solid at the absolute least. If we land one more big time player, which is still very possible, it goes from solid to excellent. So even though it seems like a lot has gone wrong, we're still in relatively good shape.
|
|
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 14:57:25 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 17, 2009 14:57:25 GMT -5
don't write that, RB, because Pope won't want to read about anything positive. He'll just put his negative, wack, spin on it, just like he always does
|
|
PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 15:40:25 GMT -5
Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 17, 2009 15:40:25 GMT -5
hey daytona
you seem upset.
you seem annoyed at what you consider to be excessive negativity!
but is there tolerance for other viewpoints? im just as annoyed (too strong a word actually) at the pollyannas who spin what to me are clear negatives into positives. my comments are not to bash the program but to point out when people are "not fixed in reality".
to me its incredible that people would think its no big deal when macklin transfered and riley decommited and to trash summers just because he was considered a "traitor" because he declared early and i speak out about it. yeah, i think we should have signed mcclain. so that makes me a bad fan???
unless im mistaken, this is a discussion board and as far my experience with discussion boards its for discussion as opposed to everybody taking the same side. tolerance for other opinions is part of a discussion board. or else you wind up challenging people to a fight like you did last time! i mean come on, can you be civil in your disagreement???
also, you seem to be selective about my posts. you must have missed the fact that in 2005 i was saying that we could beat duke and go to the final four. so try to look at the entire picture. but sorry, there hasnt been much positive to talk about lately imo.
as for my fanness, i dont have anything to prove to you or anyone else on the board.
any of this registering or am i just farting against thunder?
p.s. and for the record, if you want something positive, i think we will do much better this year than last. i have said this before.
|
|
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 15:51:00 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 17, 2009 15:51:00 GMT -5
I was being civil...not a single curse word.
as for you, yes I'm tired of the incessant negativity. We had one bad season, and all of a sudden the program is on the verge of extinction? C'mon. We survived the lean years of pops, we survived the esh years, and I'm sure we'll survive last year.
Instead of focusing on what we don't have, and that's out of our control, what about what we DO have.
We have the best returning big man in the league, and one of the best returning players in the country when it comes to greg. That can't be disputed.
We have the best returning point guard in the league in Chris Wright
We have one of the best incoming freshmen in the league in Hollis Thompson
We have a three year starter who can score the ball in Austin Freeman
We have a 6-11 legitimate power forward who only needs strength to bust out and be a huge factor in Henry Sims
We have a good 2010 class in Nate and Markel, both of whom are amongst the best in the country at their positions. Even if nate backs out, he's with us AS OF NOW!
We have the potential to land another great recruit in maybe a terrance jones, or a jalen kendrick, which would take our 2010 class to another level
we have a great coach who makes players better in JTIII
we have one of the most experienced returning corps in the league
we have athleticism, depth, and just need the cohesion to put it all together
I don't know, Pope....I just listed a ton of POSITIVES right there...
there are a lot of people here that have been posting all summer that should take note
|
|
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 15:51:59 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 17, 2009 15:51:59 GMT -5
And I didn't even mention Jason Clark (gasp) ANOTHER POSITIVE
|
|
PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 15:58:41 GMT -5
Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 17, 2009 15:58:41 GMT -5
yeah i agree with all the positives. they are obvious and unarguable.
and as i said before i think we will be fine next year.
but what you are missing daytona is that those positives have nothing to do with the topic.
when the topic of discussion is whether it was good or bad to lose macklin or summers and hopefully not lubick, i dont see how any of those facts are relevant. but if the topic is how will we do in 09-10 then ill be the first to mention them. our starting 5 features 3.5 mcdonald all americans. i didnt miss that.
and yes, if we were to sign some elites in 2010 then my opinion of the direction of our recruitment would change. we have to counteract the negativity on the recruiting trail. if we sign a big recruit he will bring credibility and be able to talk up the program to counter what the other coaches are saying. that was why i wanted latavious so bad. but right now i think its being a "pollyanna" to say that our recruiting is fine.
i just call it like i see it. if you dont like it just ignore me.
and when rivers transfered, we didnt just lose a backup guard, we lost the inside track on landing his brother. thats not to bash the program, but thats to call into question those who said good riddance when we lost rivers. its just amazing how myopic people are about some things.
|
|
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 16:05:41 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 17, 2009 16:05:41 GMT -5
we never had a shot in hell at landing his brother...It hurt when we lost Rivers because we needed his defense and athleticism and depth in the backcourt
|
|
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 16:06:48 GMT -5
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 17, 2009 16:06:48 GMT -5
and Lubick is elite, as is Markel Starks
|
|
PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 16:07:21 GMT -5
Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 17, 2009 16:07:21 GMT -5
we never had a shot in hell at landing his brother... now youre being negative!
|
|
PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 16:09:38 GMT -5
Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 17, 2009 16:09:38 GMT -5
and Lubick is elite, as is Markel Starks agreed but you missed my point. im saying since spring 08 our recruiting as been, shall we say, challenged. you can agree or disagree but thats my opinion and tho its not a pleasant fact, i dont think im being unfairly negative. but lets take this offline. pm if you want.
|
|
chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 17:00:18 GMT -5
Post by chep3 on Jul 17, 2009 17:00:18 GMT -5
I dunno pope. '06, we get Dajuan, Macklin, Rivers...good recruiting class. In '07, we get Austin and Chris and Wattad...good recruiting class. In '08, we get Greg, Henry, Jason, and you can even toss Julian in there...very good recruiting class. In '09, we get Hollis, Vee, and Benimon...obviously the jury's out there.
You're right that losing Riley wasn't good, but if the kid wanted to come in and get PT, and wasn't ready for it, that's not the program losing steam. That's a kid not being mature enough coupled with him not being ready. Was Henry ready last year? No (I think he'll be very good this year and going forward). Yet by all accounts he ate Riley's lunch last year. If anything, I think losing Braswell was more detrimental.
You're right that Macklin would have helped. But cmon, how much really? We run the wrong system for that kind of player. And JTIII knows that now.
To me it really seems like what's souring you about the state of our last 9 months is the "failure" to get Latavious Williams. My impression is that you look at him being highly ranked and look at Sanford and Benimon as being relatively untouted, and glean from that the conclusion that our recruiting has stagnated. But from all accounts on this board, we turned him down. Quibble with the rationale of that decision if you will, but not getting a recruit because you didn't want him is not as indicative of recruiting problems as not getting a recruit because he didn't want you. While it's probably unarguable that we've lost some momentum coming off the FF year, we have 2 good kids coming in next year, and hopefully room to add a couple more.
The only thing you said that I really agree with is that losing Lubick would be a big blow. I don't think anyone was implying that it would be good for us, but it is fair to point out that if we lost him, but were able to rebound with say Terrence Jones and Jelan Kendrick, then in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I hope we keep Lubick and add those two guys. And losing Lubick wouldn't be good. But it's not like he's the thin blue line between a BE contender and us being Depaul.
|
|
PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 18:21:41 GMT -5
Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 17, 2009 18:21:41 GMT -5
yeah i agree with what you said. but my analysis has little to do with disappointment re latavious, its really the trend im seeing in our recruiting since the spring 08 signing period. we havent signed a top target since last spring and we are getting bashed on the recruiting circuit and these departures make it even more "challenging" for the staff. i think the princeton is a thing of beauty, i think iii is a visionary, and its very frustrating to me when those who are deserving are given a tough road, but thats the nature of competitive sports.
to me it all adds up -- the loss of rivers, macklin, summers, riley, etc. regardless of the justification is a piling onto an already tough competitive environment. its my opinion that the people who say good riddance to the losses of those guys are plain ignorant (pollyannas) and it Editedes me off when they make light of things which damage our program.
yeah i hope we keep lubick and add kendrick/jones. ill get flack for this but ill say it: i think what happens over the next 12 months are going to be key to determining the types of players we recruit in the future. i will probably be the happiest and most relieved member on the board the next time we sign one of our top targets.
|
|
|
10
Jul 17, 2009 23:19:07 GMT -5
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jul 17, 2009 23:19:07 GMT -5
you do realize most of that time was the season when no one is landing recruits. This summer period was the next big recruiting period. the spring period isn't that big and there rarely are big names that can make an impact unless you've already been on them. so saying we haven't landed anyone since the fall isn't really damning. that can be said of a lot of programs. there are teams with no one for 2010 yet.
|
|
AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,481
|
10
Jul 18, 2009 4:31:56 GMT -5
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jul 18, 2009 4:31:56 GMT -5
Beyond that, I'm amazed that there is this sense that suddenly our recruiting is seen as falling short. Yes, we had a de-commitment for the class of 2009. And two 2010 targets opted for Duke. But even though someone started a rumor regarding Lubick, the last I checked he's quoted as re-affirming his commitment. Far as I can tell, our other 2010 commit's still in the fold and we are in the hunt with several other touted 2010 kids. And dare I mention the highly ranked 2011 and 2012 high school kids we're pursuing and have a legitimate shot at. I'm not sure what more someone would want, recruiting-wise.
As for the concern over our offensive system being problematic when it comes to landing certain kids, well I think that's overblown. Why didn't that work against us with Monroe? I continue to believe GU will find quality kids who want to go to school on the hilltop and are comfortable with our offensive approach. Commitments and signings will come.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,554
|
10
Jul 18, 2009 7:24:42 GMT -5
Post by DanMcQ on Jul 18, 2009 7:24:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
10
Jul 18, 2009 15:12:50 GMT -5
Post by vthoya on Jul 18, 2009 15:12:50 GMT -5
Per ESPN: "This skilled forward has the body of an inside banger, but the passing ability, vision, and basketball IQ of a quality Big East forward. He will take his skills to Georgetown University next season and be a perfect fit in John Thompson's program. During this tournament, he was just coming off an ankle injury that had him a little tentative during the first few games in Morgantown, but as the tournament progressed, his confidence in his rehabbed ankle allowed him to show his skills and his toughness. During the tournament, he exhibited an outstanding awareness offensively and understood fully how to utilize his big frame to position himself for easy open shots. Many skilled big men don't exhibit his same level of energy at both ends of the court, and he was able to wear down every opponent he faced. No big forward in this tournament demonstrated the same vision in the half-court offense. This allowed him to get his teammates easy, open shots. When defenders tried to press up on him and body him away from the basket, they were quickly reminded that a back door cut often leads to a lay-up. While facing up on the outside, if teams did not respect his shot, they were quickly made to pay as he dropped several perimeter jumpers during the course of the tournament." sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4338300
|
|
chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
|
10
Jul 18, 2009 15:46:29 GMT -5
Post by chep3 on Jul 18, 2009 15:46:29 GMT -5
Well I'm glad he's coming in knowing how to work with back door cuts.
|
|
|
10
Jul 18, 2009 18:49:46 GMT -5
Post by jkhoya12 on Jul 18, 2009 18:49:46 GMT -5
That sounds like music to my ears, at least vs. Cuse most importantly.
|
|