Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2007 15:10:56 GMT -5
Barry Lamar Bonds Roger Clemens Andy Pettite Mike Stanton Chuck Knoblauch Jason Grimsley Brian Roberts David Justice Troy Glaus Gary Matthews Jr. Rick Ankiel Jay Gibbons Mo Vaughn Paul Lo Duca Eric Gagne Glenallen Hill Gregg Zaun Rondell White Hal Morris Todd Hundley Larry Bigbie Lenny Dykstra David Segui Matt Herges Kevin Brown Mike Lansing Wally Joyner Nook Logan Jeremy Giambi Jason Giambi Benito Santiago Denny Neagle Ron Villone Fernando Vina Todd Pratt Jack Cust Matt Williams John Rocker Paul Byrd F.P. Santangelo Randy Velarde Gary Sheffield Miguel Tejada Rafael Palmeiro List from ESPN.comMitchell Report pdf...searchable to look for your favorite suspects... |
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Dec 13, 2007 15:15:10 GMT -5
Remind me never to hire George Mitchell to investigate anything. Pretty much nothing new here whatsoever.
This list is basically meaningless, since it represents a small percentage of users and we already knew about these guys anyway.
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Post by strummer8526 on Dec 13, 2007 15:23:46 GMT -5
I didn't know about Randy Velarde.
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azarin
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 198
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Post by azarin on Dec 13, 2007 15:25:33 GMT -5
Eric Gagne used steroids and still can't pitch now that he's in Boston...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 13, 2007 15:30:07 GMT -5
hoyaboy: difficult to investigate anything where you have no real subpoena power and the people you are investigating are instructed by their union and its attorneys not to cooperate. As I said in the other thread, this report will only have validity if it slams ownership as well. Since I am at work, I haven't had time to read it or watch the coverage like the rest of you bloodthirsty shut-ins.  |
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bubbrubbhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
We are the intuitive minds that plot the course. Woo-WOOO!
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Post by bubbrubbhoya on Dec 13, 2007 15:35:16 GMT -5
Eric Gagne used steroids and still can't pitch now that he's in Boston... Eric Gagne is no longer in Boston. In fact, I'm happy to say that this list is void of current Boston players. Out of the group, I'm only ashamed to see that Mo Vaughn is on there, as he was the man for Boston for a while in the 90s. It's good to see that they most likely run a clean ship, though. I can't wait to see what the resident Yankees fans have to say about this report. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 13, 2007 15:37:06 GMT -5
bubb, check the other thread - RDF has several posts on there saying this only confirms what he was saying years ago...
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Dec 13, 2007 15:38:03 GMT -5
hoyaboy: difficult to investigate anything where you have no real subpoena power and the people you are investigating are instructed by their union and its attorneys not to cooperate. Fair enough - it isn't necessarily his fault, but I think the "investigative" portion of this process was obviously a disaster and huge waste of time. The recommendations are another story. Bubbrubb - Red Sox not being on the report means nothing; this is extremely far from a comprehensive report, and it is nearly certain that a number of current Sox were users - just as with every other team in the league. |
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Post by strummer8526 on Dec 13, 2007 15:43:37 GMT -5
One notably absent name: Alex Rodriguez. I just want to keep SOME hope that a homerun king in the future might be clean.
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Post by dajuan on Dec 13, 2007 15:44:29 GMT -5
The report is so anecdotal that it shouldn't be taken seriously or as an answer of who used and who didn't in the past 15 years. If your team's clubhouse guys, batboys and training staff keep their mouths shut your team looks clean. That seems easy enough.
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CO_Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,109
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Post by CO_Hoya on Dec 13, 2007 15:51:50 GMT -5
Bubbrubb - Red Sox not being on the report means nothing; this is extremely far from a comprehensive report, and it is nearly certain that a number of current Sox were users - just as with every other team in the league. Two further points on this: - George Mitchell is an executive for the Boston Red Sox (per BuffaloHoya in previous thread)
- the only new information from this report (as far as I can figure) came from a New York Met clubhouse attendant and a New York Yankee trainer, so any new names should be expected to skew towards those those teams
And some questions for others: - Buff, do you have a link attributing the source for that list of names?
- What's been done in other major sports?
- How does football explain linemen weighing literally 100 lbs. more than players from a generation ago?
- How does basketball explain 18-19 year old players like Greg Oden or Lebron James (no knowledge of impropriety implied) who are greatly more physically developed than any 4 year college player of a generation ago?
- Does anyone still watch hockey?
This list function is nice |
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyatables on Dec 13, 2007 15:55:03 GMT -5
I didn't know about Randy Velarde. There's a guy I haven't thought about in years. Helluva utility player. |
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 13, 2007 15:56:26 GMT -5
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azarin
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 198
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Post by azarin on Dec 13, 2007 15:57:15 GMT -5
Eric Gagne used steroids and still can't pitch now that he's in Boston... Eric Gagne is no longer in Boston. In fact, I'm happy to say that this list is void of current Boston players. Out of the group, I'm only ashamed to see that Mo Vaughn is on there, as he was the man for Boston for a while in the 90s. It's good to see that they most likely run a clean ship, though. I can't wait to see what the resident Yankees fans have to say about this report. Geez, I lose track of the red sox for a week, and they get rid of Gagne? Oh well -- can't say I'll miiss him. |
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on Dec 13, 2007 16:03:21 GMT -5
Barry Lamar Bonds Roger Clemens Andy Pettite Mike Stanton Chuck Knoblauch Jason Grimsley Brian Roberts David Justice Troy Glaus Gary Matthews Jr. Rick Ankiel Jay Gibbons Mo Vaughn Paul Lo Duca Eric Gagne Glenallen Hill Gregg Zaun Rondell White Hal Morris Todd Hundley Larry Bigbie Lenny Dykstra David Segui Matt Herges Kevin Brown Mike Lansing Wally Joyner Nook Logan Jeremy Giambi Jason Giambi Benito Santiago Denny Neagle Ron Villone Fernando Vina Todd Pratt Jack Cust Matt Williams John Rocker Paul Byrd F.P. Santangelo Randy Velarde Gary Sheffield Miguel Tejada Rafael Palmeiro Mitchell Report pdf...searchable to look for your favorite suspects...Where'd this list come from? It's not like the report has this list in it, (at least set forth in this form). For example, all the Barry Bonds stuff I've read in there so far is from Game of Shadows, SF Chronicle articles, the government indictment, etc. In other words, nothing new. I kind of feel like, "we waited all that time for this???" |
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by The Stig on Dec 13, 2007 16:06:28 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2007 16:12:16 GMT -5
kchoya and CO_Hoya: The list of names is one compiled from the actual report, and posted on SI.com. I just edited it into a cohesive list. As for Bonds, there are no allegations against him like there are other players (from what I've read), merely a retelling of the BALCO testimony, "Game of Shadows" anecdotes... the implication is clear. EDIT: For the MOST exhaustive list of players, head here: sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646 |
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 13, 2007 16:15:52 GMT -5
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Dec 13, 2007 16:25:52 GMT -5
One notably absent name: Alex Rodriguez. I just want to keep SOME hope that a homerun king in the future might be clean. Good point and I agree. Like I said on the earlier thread, the one name that I would be surprised to see would be Vladamir Guerrero and the name that I don't want to see is A-Rod. Not that I am some giant Rodriguez fan, but I would like to have someone to root for that has a realistic shot at the record. For a long time that was Ken Griffey Jr. but his body didn't hold up. One can only wonder if maybe ... with a little artificial assistance, we might be .... nevermind. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 13, 2007 16:28:53 GMT -5
kchoya and CO_Hoya: The list of names is one compiled from the actual report, and posted on SI.com. I just edited it into a cohesive list. As for Bonds, there are no allegations against him like there are other players (from what I've read), merely a retelling of the BALCO testimony, "Game of Shadows" anecdotes... the implication is clear. EDIT: For the MOST exhaustive list of players, head here: sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646HEre's another way of looking at the list of names from ESPN.com: sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646My problem saying players like Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield -- all names from BALCO -- were "named" in the report is that most causual readers/listeners will think "Oh, George Mitchell got the evidence on Bonds" (for example) when all he did was create a compilation of book exceprts, newspaper articles and court filings - all public records and all previously reported. Other than publicly reporting a few new names, I don't see the value in this report. All I see is old BALCO info + names from a trainer and clubhouse guy + finger pointing at MLB/MLBPA. Given the "power" and resources Mitchell had, I suppose we can't expect any more than that, but still... |
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