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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 14, 2007 11:34:16 GMT -5
John Rocker?! Say it ain't so ... I wonder if he got his needles on the 7 train. That's classic.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 14, 2007 13:46:18 GMT -5
"Senator Mitchell. Hey, listen, uh, I'm out here with the guys and they're really pushing me hard not to say anything. What do you think?"
"Are you kidding?"
"Just say yes. Just say the word 'yes' and I'll spill the beans on everybody. Even Jeter"
Silence.
"Just say yes, you know, and I'll do it." "Ok, great then!" "Guys! We're fine. He has so little he's speechless!"
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Dec 14, 2007 14:17:20 GMT -5
The part about the report that disgusts me the most is the recommendation that nothing be done to punish anyone except in extreme circumstances. What I'd like to see done is: (1) Fine each franchise $50M for knowingly closing their eyes to the problem; (2) Fine the players union $50M for obstructing any effort to get at the problem: (3) Void the contracts of all active players included in the report and suspend them from playing for 5 years; (4) Accept the resignation of Bud Selig and replace him with someone completely independent of the owners or players - an independent commissioner with absolute power (like the old Baseball Czar, Judge Landis); (5) Tear up the records of all players cited in the report; (6) Institute a random testing program, administered by an independent agency, and suspend for life anyone that tests positive; (7) Hire an independent detective agency to continually probe and, whenever it uncovers a new name that has violated the policies, to treat them in the same manner as those on the current list; and, fine the franchise $5M each time a new player in their system is found to have used forbidden products. Without some actions similar to the above, it will be merely window-dressing with all saying "we're sorry and we promise to do better in the future".
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,604
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Post by hoyatables on Dec 14, 2007 14:30:01 GMT -5
The part about the report that disgusts me the most is the recommendation that nothing be done to punish anyone except in extreme circumstances. What I'd like to see done is: (1) Fine each franchise $50M for knowingly closing their eyes to the problem; (2) Fine the players union $50M for obstructing any effort to get at the problem: (3) Void the contracts of all active players included in the report and suspend them from playing for 5 years; (4) Accept the resignation of Bud Selig and replace him with someone completely independent of the owners or players - an independent commissioner with absolute power (like the old Baseball Czar, Judge Landis); (5) Tear up the records of all players cited in the report; (6) Institute a random testing program, administered by an independent agency, and suspend for life anyone that tests positive; (7) Hire an independent detective agency to continually probe and, whenever it uncovers a new name that has violated the policies, to treat them in the same manner as those on the current list; and, fine the franchise $5M each time a new player in their system is found to have used forbidden products. Without some actions similar to the above, it will be merely window-dressing with all saying "we're sorry and we promise to do better in the future". Good points, especially #4. Besides, what name inspires more respect and fear: "Bud Selig" or "Kenesaw Mountain Landis"? I mean, my gosh, the man has Mountain as his middle name!
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 14, 2007 15:12:00 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 14, 2007 16:08:51 GMT -5
I know that, but it means that at least as of now, we don't know for sure that they are dirty. In all seriousness, I am cautiously optimistic that every name on my list is in fact clean. Even though Pujols' personal trainer was tied to HGH?
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Dec 14, 2007 20:17:34 GMT -5
Vindication for Frank Thomas. He's been complaining about steroids for a decade now. He was the only current major league player to willingly talk to the Mitchell team. I put him right up there with the greatest right handed hitters of the past 30 years. Never hit more than 43 hrs in a season despite his obvious size and strength but still got to 500. www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/696853,CST-SPT-sox14.article www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/columnists/top3/story/4092691p-4690710c.htmlFrank Thomas lost out to the steroid users as much as anybody (with the exception of those clean players who never made it to the majors and lost out to a fringe player on enhancers). He lost a 3rd mvp to a souped up Giambi and had his own team invoke the "diminished skills" clause when he didn't partcipate in the power parade. Frank needs to get his due.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Dec 14, 2007 20:21:18 GMT -5
Vindication for Frank Thomas. He's been complaining about steroids for a decade now. He was the only current major league player to willingly talk to the Mitchell team. I put him right up there with the greatest right handed hitters of the past 30 years. Never hit more than 43 hrs in a season despite his obvious size and strength but still got to 500. www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/696853,CST-SPT-sox14.article www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/columnists/top3/story/4092691p-4690710c.htmlFrank Thomas lost out to the steroid users as much as anybody (with the exception of those clean players who never made it to the majors and lost out to a fringe player on enhancers). He lost a 3rd mvp to a souped up Giambi and had his own team invoke the "diminished skills" clause when he didn't partcipate in the power parade. Frank needs to get his due. Amen, like Griffey Jr. Frank didn't get his due because he couldn't keep up with these chemical monsters but he still played the game. He was one of my childhood heroes and he never made me regret it
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Dec 15, 2007 12:35:44 GMT -5
Vindication for Frank Thomas. He's been complaining about steroids for a decade now. He was the only current major league player to willingly talk to the Mitchell team. I put him right up there with the greatest right handed hitters of the past 30 years. Never hit more than 43 hrs in a season despite his obvious size and strength but still got to 500. www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/696853,CST-SPT-sox14.article www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/columnists/top3/story/4092691p-4690710c.htmlFrank Thomas lost out to the steroid users as much as anybody (with the exception of those clean players who never made it to the majors and lost out to a fringe player on enhancers). He lost a 3rd mvp to a souped up Giambi and had his own team invoke the "diminished skills" clause when he didn't partcipate in the power parade. Frank needs to get his due. Amen, like Griffey Jr. Frank didn't get his due because he couldn't keep up with these chemical monsters but he still played the game. He was one of my childhood heroes and he never made me regret it I am with you there. I have a lot of respect for the Big Hurt. I remember seeing him play for Auburn and he was just simply a monster already. He was one of those rare physical specimens, similar to Herschel. When you first saw them, you could tell it was someone special. As a Gator fan, I remember him depositing several balls over the left field wall. Back then we used to hang out and drink beer in the outfield. I vaguely remember having to duck once....
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Dec 15, 2007 18:16:13 GMT -5
If I'm Bud Selig--I BAN Andy Pettitte for coming out and lying today. If you were only using it "two times" when injured--then why not come out at the time and admit it right away--you aren't implicating anyone other then yourself and despite fact it wasn't "against the rules at the time"--it's still not detected in MLB drug testing--they only test for Steriods at the current time.
Pettitte is a bigger liar after today--he not only ABUSED performance enhancers--he lies about it after the fact he's named. What a joke--any respect I had left for him--is out the window after today's "admittance" from this piece of crap.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2007 10:06:01 GMT -5
Vindication for Frank Thomas. He's been complaining about steroids for a decade now. He was the only current major league player to willingly talk to the Mitchell team. I put him right up there with the greatest right handed hitters of the past 30 years. Never hit more than 43 hrs in a season despite his obvious size and strength but still got to 500. www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/696853,CST-SPT-sox14.article www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/columnists/top3/story/4092691p-4690710c.htmlFrank Thomas lost out to the steroid users as much as anybody (with the exception of those clean players who never made it to the majors and lost out to a fringe player on enhancers). He lost a 3rd mvp to a souped up Giambi and had his own team invoke the "diminished skills" clause when he didn't partcipate in the power parade. Frank needs to get his due. Great post. I KNEW there was a reason I collected every Frank Thomas rookie card back in the day... ... (until proven otherwise) he's my new modern day baseball hero.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,995
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 16, 2007 10:55:29 GMT -5
Vindication for Frank Thomas. He's been complaining about steroids for a decade now. He was the only current major league player to willingly talk to the Mitchell team. I put him right up there with the greatest right handed hitters of the past 30 years. Never hit more than 43 hrs in a season despite his obvious size and strength but still got to 500. www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/696853,CST-SPT-sox14.article www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/columnists/top3/story/4092691p-4690710c.htmlFrank Thomas lost out to the steroid users as much as anybody (with the exception of those clean players who never made it to the majors and lost out to a fringe player on enhancers). He lost a 3rd mvp to a souped up Giambi and had his own team invoke the "diminished skills" clause when he didn't partcipate in the power parade. Frank needs to get his due. Great post. I KNEW there was a reason I collected every Frank Thomas rookie card back in the day... ... (until proven otherwise) he's my new modern day baseball hero. for me buff, that would be junior griffey
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Dec 17, 2007 12:32:00 GMT -5
My personal belief on the "Steriod Era"--trace it back to Tony LaRussa's Oakland A's teams--which had aging/over the hill pitchers find the "fountain of youth" and aging players other teams dumped--find a rebirth to their careers--Dave Parker, Dave Henderson, Carney Lansford, etc.....and you add in the Dork Brothers--Canseco and McGwire. The Bay Area also had Kevin Mitchell's "growth" as a player--and amazingly even the 1B Coach for LaRussa--Dave McKay looked like he jumped out of muscle magazine. Dave Duncan teaches cheating to his pitchers--scuffing the ball, throwing spitters, etc....and why not take it to any level possible if you are going to cheat. The Eckersley domination--was that tainted? I believe the majority of players in Oakland cheated back in those days--and it began the Steriod Era. Balco--located in Bay Area, and the next biggest cheating town--Phoenix. Trace the NFL/NBA/MLB athletes that go out there to "train". It's comical--they send kids out of college out there to workout in preparation of the Combine/NFL Draft--wonder why??
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 17, 2007 14:01:17 GMT -5
I don't mean to turn this thread into a Frank Thomas lovefest, but I have to say that I was shocked that someone on the other thread had speculated that Thomas would be named as a user. As pointed out above, he has publicly decried steroid use for years, and in fact, when he was asked to testify before Congress with the others a few years ago but was unable to appear, it wasn't because he was suspected of steroid use, but because his voice had been the loudest among the players who were critical of such use. The Big Hurt and Ozzie Smith are my two favorite players of the last 20 years.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 18, 2007 15:40:29 GMT -5
I've been away from a computer for about a week, trying to cram a bunch of comments in here:
First of all, I am disappointed in the report itself. It represents in no way the exhaustive investigation that was promised to baseball fans. Why was this report so hyped in the media?
No Brady Anderson? That David Segui must be one tight-lipped mofo.
Pretty sure that part of Ken Caminiti's admissions to frequent and massive drug use should have killed that candy bar story for you some time ago. Did he not admit to using steroids as well? I really thought he did before he passed away.
A lot of people have to feel the way easyed does. A financial slump for MLB similar to the post-strike years may very well be in the near future. Just replace the fans throwing money on the field with fans throwing syringes.
The Big Hurt was my childhood hero and the reason I root for the White Sox. I am very glad that he was not named in the report (doesn't mean he was clean, and certainly doesn't mean he wasn't a petulant jerk on many occasions, but I'm glad nonetheless). Buff, I have all Thomas' rookie cards as well, but my favorite card was from his second season where Upper Deck captured him flipping the bird to the camera.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 16:01:30 GMT -5
Buff, I have all Thomas' rookie cards as well, but my favorite card was from his second season where Upper Deck captured him flipping the bird to the camera. One of three cards I have secured between two screwed-together pieces of plexiglass. The other two? Billy Ripken... the infamous "F--- Face" and the identical "blacked out" card.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Dec 18, 2007 16:09:05 GMT -5
Buff, I have all Thomas' rookie cards as well, but my favorite card was from his second season where Upper Deck captured him flipping the bird to the camera. One of three cards I have secured between two screwed-together pieces of plexiglass. The other two? Billy Ripken... the infamous "F--- Face" and the identical "blacked out" card. Mine include the Walter Payton rookie card (76 topps?) and the rookie card featuring Larry Bird and Magic Johnson with Doctor J in the middle. That is a sweet card and I am so glad that I am lucky enough to have it.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 18, 2007 17:35:34 GMT -5
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,262
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Post by FormerHoya on Dec 18, 2007 17:51:01 GMT -5
Clemens is a liar and an idiot.
Also, I am an idiot. I was young at the time, but my favorite card was (aside from the autographed Ryne Sandberg '85 All-Star card) either the Mark McGuire USA Baseball Topps rookie, or the Mark McGuire Donruss Rookie.
Stupid me.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 32,004
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 19, 2007 9:24:54 GMT -5
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