TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on May 5, 2005 15:55:06 GMT -5
6. Again, why are you surprised a guy came on a D.C. talk show and defended the O's? Unless you're an older generation, the only "home" team D.C. has had for a long time is the O's. Every Nat's fan is a bandwagon fan in my mind unless you were pulling for the Expos for a few years. Otherwise you're just cheering for a geographic location and some uniforms, not a baseball club. You've just summed up the situation in the Carolinas with the Panthers fans in both states. They are especially peeved with the Falcons fans since the Panthers have always been owned by the Falcons. To a lesser extent they get upset with the people who have always been Redskins fans when those were the regional games that used to always be on in NC.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on May 5, 2005 16:05:19 GMT -5
Nats fans are bandwagon fans only if Raven's fans are bandwagon fans. There is no difference.
And yes, DC fans have a legitimate reason to hate the Orioles -- as satan himself pretty much single-handedly kept a team out of DC for 20 years.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on May 5, 2005 16:08:47 GMT -5
Damn WilsonBlvdHoya, I always look forward to getting creative with curse words when I'm on the Internet. I guess I can't do that on this website.
JohnJacquesLayup, let me attempt to answer your questions. First, let me point out that it is actually that CHUMP Bud Selig's fault for allowing Peter Angelos to SCREW the Nationals. Other sports who have real commissioners, know how to control some PINHEAD owner(Al Davis in the NFL/ Mark Cuban in the NBA).
I believe it is surprising that a team that had an 8-GAME WINNING STREAK and was off to its best start in over 30 years continues to have poor attendance.
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that you will find many baseball fans in D.C. or its surrounding territories who would rather watch the Orioles than the Nationals considering Washington D.C. has a team for the first time in over 30 years. If a casual fan in D.C. wanted to see the new and improved Orioles, there are PLENTY of good seats available at Camden Yards. AHH! HHA!
As for fans coming from Virginia choosing to make a shorter trip to Washington D.C. rather than Baltimore hurting the Orioles attendance........TOO BAD!!! Baseball has several teams that are a short distance from each other(Cubs/Whitesox, Giants/A's, Yankees/Mets, Dodgers/Angels) and they have made it work. I think the situation here will be helped out TREMENDOUSLY next season because the schedule makers will know for sure that Washington D.C. has a team and they will make sure that the Nationals and Orioles will NEVER have home games on the same days. That PIECE OF GARBAGE Peter Angelos may stop some of his whining when that happens.
Sure, the Orioles may have been D.C.'s team for a long time. But now D.C. has a team, there is no need for Orioles discussion on Sportstalk 980. That guy can do his Orioles cheerleading on WBAL. C'mon, don't say that Nationals fans are bandwagon fans because the Nationals used to play in Montreal. The Nationals are officially Washington D.C.'s team. I guess the fans who pack Ravens stadium every season are all bandwagon fans as well?
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on May 5, 2005 16:41:01 GMT -5
No sweat, Thomas! I understand the passion; after all, I attended my first World Series game in 1971 when the O's played a classic against the Pirates.
I don't have time for a prolonged discussion on Os/Nats but I do think that 1) Nats fans will have to prove themselves loyal over the long haul when the team is sub .500, potentially year after year (like the O's have been since 97, hopefully that ends this year) and 2) there's no question that a team in DC will hurt attendance in Bmore since there were anywhere from 10-25/30% of fans at O's games from the Washington metro area. Bmore and MD fans will have to make up that difference somehow....
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on May 5, 2005 17:34:07 GMT -5
Damn WilsonBlvdHoya, I always look forward to getting creative with curse words when I'm on the Internet. I guess I can't do that on this website. JohnJacquesLayup, let me attempt to answer your questions. First, let me point out that it is actually that CHUMP Bud Selig's fault for allowing Peter Angelos to SCREW the Nationals. Other sports who have real commissioners, know how to control some PINHEAD owner(Al Davis in the NFL/ Mark Cuban in the NBA). I believe it is surprising that a team that had an 8-GAME WINNING STREAK and was off to its best start in over 30 years continues to have poor attendance. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that you will find many baseball fans in D.C. or its surrounding territories who would rather watch the Orioles than the Nationals considering Washington D.C. has a team for the first time in over 30 years. If a casual fan in D.C. wanted to see the new and improved Orioles, there are PLENTY of good seats available at Camden Yards. AHH! HHA! As for fans coming from Virginia choosing to make a shorter trip to Washington D.C. rather than Baltimore hurting the Orioles attendance........TOO BAD!!! Baseball has several teams that are a short distance from each other(Cubs/Whitesox, Giants/A's, Yankees/Mets, Dodgers/Angels) and they have made it work. I think the situation here will be helped out TREMENDOUSLY next season because the schedule makers will know for sure that Washington D.C. has a team and they will make sure that the Nationals and Orioles will NEVER have home games on the same days. That PIECE OF GARBAGE Peter Angelos may stop some of his whining when that happens. Sure, the Orioles may have been D.C.'s team for a long time. But now D.C. has a team, there is no need for Orioles discussion on Sportstalk 980. That guy can do his Orioles cheerleading on WBAL. C'mon, don't say that Nationals fans are bandwagon fans because the Nationals used to play in Montreal. The Nationals are officially Washington D.C.'s team. I guess the fans who pack Ravens stadium every season are all bandwagon fans as well? First, I hate the damn Ravens and all of their bandwagon fans (note: they're either bandwagon or former browns fans. Current browns fans are fans of an invented team). They all forget how not too long ago they were Skins fans and now make up retarded names for them like the "Deadskins." Idiots. Second, If 980 can't talk about the O's then you feel the same way about WaPo's coverage? A paper that coved the O's better than even the Baltimore Sun (crappy paper) should immediately stop because there's a Canadian team playing in D.C. now? I understand that you are excited about a team in D.C., I would be too if it wasn't the national league. But your only accurate points IMO are those about Angelos (even though now you're placing blame on Selig for not controling Angelos). I'm not ready to concede on the fact that D.C. residents that are not O's or Nats fans would rather see mediocre National League baseball rather than some pretty solid ball being playing in Baltimore now. Time will tell, but right now I'm right. If D.C. wanted to see the Nats so bad, since they aren't on TV why don't they WALK ACROSS THE STREET AND GO SEE THEM. The Nats don't exactly have the best attendance numbers either. Lastly, although I know these Orioles are the real deal I don't blame many O's fans for not getting hyped up and selling out every game during our big win streak (although 8 games in a season is not that great). After years of horrible teams, some may be slow to believe the hype is real this time. A good example of this is the D.C. fans being slow to believe the Wizards season was not a fluke.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on May 6, 2005 8:08:19 GMT -5
After years of horrible teams, some may be slow to believe the hype is real this time. Is it real? Honestly? Come on...seriously?
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hoyahoyasaxa
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on May 6, 2005 9:21:18 GMT -5
The argument that Nationals fans are bandwagon fans is bogus. Does that mean that every new team is full of bandwagon fans? Shouldn't Orioles fans root for the Yankees then, because the team that eventually became the Yankees actually started in Baltimore (playing one season) and then moving to New York? Aren't the Yankees really Baltimore's team, then? The Yankees were the original Baltimore team.
The Nationals are Washington's team. The Orioles are Baltimore's team. That's how it is going to be from now on. Some people in the immediate DC area will still root for the Orioles because that's their childhood team. Some will root for both teams. But to say that DC Nats fans are bandwagon fans is not correct.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on May 6, 2005 9:58:35 GMT -5
The Nationals are Washington's team. The Orioles are Baltimore's team. That's how it is going to be from now on. Some people in the immediate DC area will still root for the Orioles because that's their childhood team. Some will root for both teams. But to say that DC Nats fans are bandwagon fans is not correct. I don't understand how a fan's allegiance can sway so easily. Were there no baseball fans in D.C. last year? Obviously there were, so who'd they cheer for? I'm guessing NOT the Expos. That's my point. If the Lakers moved to Baltimore next season, I know my team would still be the Wizards. I'd be happy a pro basketball team was in Baltimore, but I think becoming a fan of that team would take years of highs and lows where eventually an emotional history could form.
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hoyahoyasaxa
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on May 6, 2005 10:30:05 GMT -5
I don't understand how a fan's allegiance can sway so easily. Were there no baseball fans in D.C. last year? Obviously there were, so who'd they cheer for? I'm guessing NOT the Expos. That's my point. If the Lakers moved to Baltimore next season, I know my team would still be the Wizards. I'd be happy a pro basketball team was in Baltimore, but I think becoming a fan of that team would take years of highs and lows where eventually an emotional history could form. Yes, I agree it will really take years. I think there are essentially three groups of fans in DC right now. These are all generalizations, but from going to the games, this is what it looks like: The first are the older generation, who grew up with the Senators. They probably rooted for the Orioles eventually after the Senators moved. I'd say they're the group that has either completely switched their allegiance to the Nationals, or root for both the Orioles and Nationals. The second group are DC natives were born after the Senators moved. They have been O's fans their whole life, and while maybe some of them will switch to the Nats, most of them will stay O's fans. The third group is the group in their mid-20s or below. The ones from DC are mostly too young to remember the O's World Series victory. The ones from outside DC are transplants. Maybe they have another MLB team, maybe they don't. This younger group is the one that is really turning to the Nats. The fourth group doesn't really exist yet. But these are the young kids who will go to Nats games and be raised as Nats fans. Some people will root for both teams, and that is probably okay. I am from the SF area, where there are both Giants and A's fans. Everyone has a team, and there is sort of a rivalry, but in general, both sets of fans are happy when the other team does well. My Giants-fan friends go to a lot of A's games, and my A's-fan friends go to a lot of Giants games. But in the DC area, Angelos created this instant fan rivalry. He was really stupid for doing so-- and it's definitely hurting the O's more than the Nats right now.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on May 6, 2005 10:38:10 GMT -5
Yes, I agree it will really take years. I think there are essentially three groups of fans in DC right now. These are all generalizations, but from going to the games, this is what it looks like: The first are the older generation, who grew up with the Senators. They probably rooted for the Orioles eventually after the Senators moved. I'd say they're the group that has either completely switched their allegiance to the Nationals, or root for both the Orioles and Nationals. The second group are DC natives were born after the Senators moved. They have been O's fans their whole life, and while maybe some of them will switch to the Nats, most of them will stay O's fans. The third group is the group in their mid-20s or below. The ones from DC are mostly too young to remember the O's World Series victory. The ones from outside DC are transplants. Maybe they have another MLB team, maybe they don't. This younger group is the one that is really turning to the Nats. The fourth group doesn't really exist yet. But these are the young kids who will go to Nats games and be raised as Nats fans. Thanks for your observations. I had a good idea that Nats fans were composed of groups 1 and 2, and eventually group 4; I was not accounting for group three. Interesting breakdown.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on May 6, 2005 16:52:03 GMT -5
JohnJacquesLayup, you made a GREAT point about the Washington Post still covering the Orioles as if they are a home team. Pretty much EVERY Oriole game is televised in Washington D.C. and the sportstalk radio station in D.C. broadcast all the Oriole games. I guess the Washington Post wants to follow in line. That PIECE OF GARBAGE Peter Angelos should be satisfied with the fact that the BALTIMORE Orioles get better coverage in WASHINGTON D.C. than the Nationals do.
When a team relocates to another city, they belong to that new city. Do you want all professional sports franchises to be covered and cheered ONLY by fans in the original city they started in? It's not about fans loyalties switching easily, it's about fans wanting to support the HOME TEAM!! I supported the Orioles, until the day it was made official that the Montreal Expos would become the Washington Nationals.
I'm not letting that SCUMBAG Peter Angelos off the hook. I'm just saying that Bud Selig could have put an end to the nonsense. There are out-of-control owners in other sports, but those other sports have strong commissioners who will MUZZLE those fools.
I think you're wrong about casual fans who are not Oriole or National fans wanting to see the Orioles. Fans in D.C. may not "walk across the street" to see the Nationals in huge numbers, but those fans are DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO CAMDEN YARDS!!! My main point about this situation is that PIECE OF GARBAGE Peter Angelos has attempted to block a team from coming to D.C. for years. When it was announced that the Expos were coming, he should have just let them exist here without causing problems. Luckily, his foolishness is starting to backfire on him.
You're right about the Wizards fans. I don't think tonight's game was sold out until Gilbert Arenas shot at the buzzer went in on Wednesday night. I thought for sure that ALL the playoff games would sell out quickly. That certaintly was not the case. Are the days of the Wizards organization HEAVILY promoting opponents of the Wizards over?
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on May 7, 2005 10:25:45 GMT -5
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on May 7, 2005 14:29:45 GMT -5
CambridgeHoya, thanks for the link. The TOAD is a great description of Peter Angleos. The Nationals are currently on a west coast road trip, meaning there is no competition for the Orioles current weekend series. The weather is good, the Orioles are in first place, ALL of the local fans should be at Camden Yards watching the Orioles take on a HIGH SCHOOL TEAM today and tomorrow. AHH! HHA!
Someone on the link CambridgeHoya posted mentioned Phil Wood. He must be in a tough spot. He is a D.C.area native who had to affiliate himself with the Orioles because they WERE D.C.'s team. I remember he used to come on Sportalk 980 and discuss how he looked forward to the day baseball would come back to the D.C. area.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on May 17, 2005 13:41:17 GMT -5
I saw the Royals-Orioles game on 5/7 and the Cubs-Nats on 5/14.
There were about 32K in Baltimore for a late afternoon game. There were 42K in RFK for a 7 pm game (granted there were alot of Cubs fans there) and a large number of them stayed until the game finally started between 9 and 10 after a weather delay that had me wanting to build an ark in the concourse.
The crowd seemed more raucous in RFK,even my Oriole fan fiancee agreed. I wonder how many of the drunk fans rushing the field during the delays (including a streaker I heard - I was on the concourse when that happened) were some of the GU seniors they welcomed to the game.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on May 17, 2005 15:39:58 GMT -5
TigherHoya, I was at the Cubs-Nats game on Friday Night(5/13). The attendance was about 36,000. There was also WAY too many Cubs fans at that game as well. They actually did a brief I-L-I.....I-N-I chant!!! Is it just certain parts of RFK where the P.A.system CANNOT BE HEARD or is it the entire stadium?
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on May 27, 2005 19:31:46 GMT -5
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on May 28, 2005 15:35:13 GMT -5
Greg Maddux complained about the pitching mound not being very stable in the 5/15 game at RFK. RFK having bad field conditions has come up several times this season. It cost the Nationals a game against the Braves earlier this year. I've been to 2 Nationals games this year, when I was sitting in the upper deck I couldn't hear the P.A. announcer, but when I was sitting behind the Nationals bench I could hear him clearly. Does anyone know when they are going to fix that problem?
Injuries have RUINED the Nationals, they appear to be headed in a downward spiral that won't end for a while. Despite the injuries, the Nationals had been playing well on the road until they got swept by the TERRIBLE Cincinnati Reds. Maybe playing a bunch of home games starting on Monday will help them turn things around.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on May 29, 2005 12:33:01 GMT -5
Greg Maddux complained about the pitching mound not being very stable in the 5/15 game at RFK. RFK having bad field conditions has come up several times this season. It cost the Nationals a game against the Braves earlier this year. I've been to 2 Nationals games this year, when I was sitting in the upper deck I couldn't hear the P.A. announcer, but when I was sitting behind the Nationals bench I could hear him clearly. Does anyone know when they are going to fix that problem? And what's the deal with the home dugout being on the 3B side? When's the last time that happened anywhere in MLB?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 29, 2005 17:39:11 GMT -5
And what's the deal with the home dugout being on the 3B side? When's the last time that happened anywhere in MLB? The Twins' dugout in the Metrodome is on the 3B side. Little Big League lost me when I noticed that they had the Twins in the 1B dugout.
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Post by showcase on May 31, 2005 8:23:21 GMT -5
Seems to me the home dugouts in Chicago are on the 3B side as well. I may be mistaken about where they've located the home team in that outhouse the Cubbies play in, but I'm pretty sure what side the ML-leading ChiSox's clubhouse is on in New Comiskey.
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