aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Dec 29, 2004 16:50:29 GMT -5
Clemson is probably better than Miami, Va Tech and maybe FSU. PSU is probably the worst in the Big Ten. Lets be realistic...Florida State takes the Terps to OT @ College Park...Miami beats Florida @ Gainesville... I'm not saying that Clemson can't beat FSU or Miami...but 9 out of 10, they will lose against both of those opponents... Georgetown beat a half-way decent team in Clemson...but Clemson ain't the Cream of the Crop in the ACC...
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 29, 2004 17:00:33 GMT -5
Missed the game last night (was in Zion Park), but saw the score today in the USAToday. Before I looked at our score, I saw some other good teams not blowing out the patsies they were playing, so I thought if we would have any trouble with NS. I almost gasped, when I saw the score. At least it was a win and kept us a perfect 44-0 vs the MEAC. But I guess that is the best you can say. The trend seems to be on a roller coaster this year. Let's hope we will have many more ups than down for the remainder of the year.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 29, 2004 17:06:24 GMT -5
Can't say I agree there. Remember Clemson's losses are us, UAB, and at BC by 9. They've beaten a 10-2 Ohio State team and a 7-2 South Carolina team whose only other loss is by 4 at Kansas.
FSU has lost to Florida International and Texas A&M Corpus Christi. Miami is OK but I don't know about better than Clemson. Clemson isn't the cream of the crop but they're a middle of the pack team in the ACC and will finish between 6 and 8. That doesn't mean we're headed to the tournament just yet, but to blow them out on a neutral floor was a good win.
Also, remember Clemson destroyed Norfolk by 27 and we destroyed Clemson by 15. This OT win is an aberration unless we believe that both our win over Clemson AND Clemson's win over Norfolk are aberrations.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Dec 29, 2004 17:57:33 GMT -5
Seems to me that both the Clemson and Norfolk games were strange. Against Clemson, we made 80 % of our shots in the second half. That reminds me of Villanova's second half shooting percentage in the 1985 NCAA finals. Against Norfolk we just ran into a hot team. This will probably be the story of this year, hot and cold.
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Post by uweblabisgod on Dec 29, 2004 18:13:10 GMT -5
A little slack, guys -- these Xmas out of conference games are always the pits because the players would rather be elsewhere. The Pitt game will paint a better picture.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 18:51:50 GMT -5
Lets be realistic...Florida State takes the Terps to OT @ College Park...Miami beats Florida @ Gainesville... I'm not saying that Clemson can't beat FSU or Miami...but 9 out of 10, they will lose against both of those opponents... That's a little bit of an exaggeration. This is essentially still the same Miami team that lost to the Hoyas twice last season.
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Grandpa
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Post by Grandpa on Dec 29, 2004 19:04:52 GMT -5
Also, remember Clemson destroyed Norfolk by 27 and we destroyed Clemson by 15. This OT win is an aberration unless we believe that both our win over Clemson AND Clemson's win over Norfolk are aberrations. Agreed. It seems to me quite difficult to make much sense (either positively or negatively) of the Hoyas' 2004-05 season using any kind of simple, "transitive property"-type analysis, since the outcomes of the 10 games we've played thus far seem so incongruous. Nevertheless, while a solid 15-20 point "rebound" thumping of Howard won't really tell us that much more about the Hoyas, I'm still hoping we can have that kind of a game tomorrow so that the team has a bit more confidence in itself heading into Pitt & UConn.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Dec 29, 2004 19:06:34 GMT -5
I must sincerely aplogize for this game, since I believe I am responsible for the embarassing OT win. The only times I have followed a game for more than a half on HoyaChat were Long Beach State and Norfolk State. Two stinkers of games. I'll never go on HoyaChat again. But I just gotta say, yes, there should be outrage at this game. We have now had two very close calls against teams in the cellar of DI. Is this a cause for concern? Definitely. We should be upset at this. I wasn't at either of these games, so I can't feel I can comment much. But I just gotta say, this team needs to learn how to show up EVERY GAME for 40 (or 45...) MIN, or this will be a looong Big East season. We've seen our potential, and we've seen how much we can suck. The only positives I can see after two close calls to horrible teams is that we won them both. Now, if we don't show up against Howard and blow them out comfortably, I will be very, very disappointed. And I'm sure JT III will too.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 19:16:04 GMT -5
But I just gotta say, yes, there should be outrage at this game. We have now had two very close calls against teams in the cellar of DI. Maybe I would have a sense of outrage if this was the Alonzo Mourning teams or the Iverson teams. Or if this was the last two Sweetney teams that were actually expected to make it to the NCAA tourney. But this is a team learning a new system that most people, including most GU fans, aren't expecting much of. A year of lowered expectations means just that...even when the competition is the MEAC. I have little outrage over what occurred last night. Still I recall a period of three seasons when the Hoyas were still playing Fort Hood in the pre-season. In two of those seasons the Hoyas beat Fort Hood pretty badly but did not make the tourney. But the season in which Fort Hood kept it close, Sweetney's freshmen season, the Hoyas went dancing.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 29, 2004 19:16:06 GMT -5
I guess the 80%-plus shooting in the second half vs Clemson was an aberration, but it wasn't like we were gunning from the outside and were unconscious -- the team was making nice passes for easy layups and dunks most of the time. That kind of penetration seems to be what was missing from the last game, according to quotes from the coach and comments from those who were there. I have to agree with posters who think this will be a roller-coaster type season. I think some nights we will look worse and some nights better, but I just hope to see gradual improvement in teamwork and BBall IQ
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 29, 2004 19:28:19 GMT -5
I maintain what I said earlier: This team is young. It will have some high highs and low lows. But by the end of this year we'll be a team no one wants to play. I think that's fair to a point, but the lack of development in the newcomers outside Green should be a concern. The staff's reluctance to play its bench may come back to bite them in the conference race. No matter how good or bad you think Sead or Cornelio is, there's a better than even chance that each will be called into action if teams load up on Bowman and Green and get them into foul trouble. Together they've logged a combined five minutes of play in ten games. Similarly, with Roy Hibbert as a work in progress, there is still no reserve center on the depth chart and AK-D (5 minutes) and Ken Izzo (2 mins.) didn't get any time either. When six of 14 players have a combined average of six minutes over ten games this season, you've got to hope that fouls do not stretch the lineup past seven or eight...but every other Big East team knows this as well.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 29, 2004 19:50:12 GMT -5
If AKD logs big minutes, it's last year all over again and we're sunk. And I think you're statement "with Roy Hibbert a work in progress" is exactly why we shouldn't play AKD or Izzo. Our key to the Big East season isn't how well our back-up center plays but how well our starting center plays and he's a freshman.
So I don't think we can overthink this. We need to have our top 7 or 8 guys log as many minutes as possible and get comfortable in the system and with each other. I can't imagine so much depends on AKD's hypothetical 5-10 minutes in a game or that playing him now will improve him so much that he'll be a stud coming cold off the bench.
I think III is right to focus on the guys who will play.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 29, 2004 19:53:07 GMT -5
Pomeroy Rankings - ACC (btw, GU is 95)
Clemson 69 Miami 80 FSU 92 Va Tech 180
The next lowest is NC State at 30. Clemson is in the bottom of the pile, but their season so far has been better than those other three.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 29, 2004 22:56:28 GMT -5
In response to DFW's complaint that the lack of development among newcomers outside of Green should be a concern...
Is this the same DFW who never ever seemed to have a problem with the lack of development among any of Coach Esherick's players, newcomers or not? Yet now he's ready to question a "lack of development" under the new coach after just ten games? Is this the same DFW who habitually heaped the blame for the failures of the previous coach on the University's lack of facilities?
It's astonishing to see the turnaround. Did someone offend you during the search process? There is certainly a strange undercurrent to your postings here and on your fine web site's front page, as if you are searching for things to find wrong with the program, when the exact opposite was true under the old regime.
I can't imagine that anyone who loves the school and program as much as you so clearly do could be so conflicted about this coach and this team. To any clear-headed observer, there appears to be no doubt that the team is headed in the right direction - the few minutes of the Illinois game that I saw contained more fluid offensive basketball than the entire Esherick regime - and yet you apparently want to turn every speed bump JT3 and the players encounter along the path toward righting the ship into something bigger than it is.
Very odd
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 29, 2004 23:13:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry if I'm not following you. My point was that the reserves need more in-game experience entering the Big East, regardless of who it is. I'm not questioning "lack of development" but I do question whether a seven man rotation is enough to withstand the rigors of Big East play. That's not some wholesale knocking of the coach, that's just a reflection based on past Georgetown teams where depth was vital to its success. (See www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/archives/archive0204.htm#32 for details.) To the other point raised, the failures of the past coaching staff were never driven on facilities. [Facilities is not a game by game issue, it is a program issue and is really not relevant to tonight's conversation.] If anything, I was harder in the past on assistants (i.e. R. Thompson and C. Simms) who seemed more focused on recruiting than game prep, i.e., doing the things in practice to get players prepared for the game. The consistenyly slow starts by the 03-04 team were symtomatic of a team which was not focused entering the game and which lost focus at the end of the game. Any such issues have not been the case in 04-05--the team has shown considerably better effort in this area than their predecessors and I give the head coach and his assistants credit for re-instilling this. Let's make this clear: I'm supportive of the coach and the program. I was supportive of coach Thompson's predecessor, and I'll be supportive of his successor, too. Leave the "what's really going on?" theories to Keith Olbermann, who still thinks the Ohio electoral vote is up for grabs.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Dec 29, 2004 23:15:32 GMT -5
I think that's fair to a point, but the lack of development in the newcomers outside Green should be a concern. The staff's reluctance to play its bench may come back to bite them in the conference race. No matter how good or bad you think Sead or Cornelio is, there's a better than even chance that each will be called into action if teams load up on Bowman and Green and get them into foul trouble. Together they've logged a combined five minutes of play in ten games. Similarly, with Roy Hibbert as a work in progress, there is still no reserve center on the depth chart and AK-D (5 minutes) and Ken Izzo (2 mins.) didn't get any time either. When six of 14 players have a combined average of six minutes over ten games this season, you've got to hope that fouls do not stretch the lineup past seven or eight...but every other Big East team knows this as well. Thanks for bringing up Sead...I want to throw props out to him this year...next to III he's been the guy on his feet the most on the bench in every game I've seen so far this year. I love the spirit. Keep it up, Sead! Your point about depth may prove to be very valid DFW, but I have to say I LOVE the fact we use a 7-8 man rotation. Probably because I'm blinded by the fact that it's such a contrast to Esh's style of subbing out the hot player and doing hockey-line substitutions of 3-5 guys at a time for seemingly no reason. But you're right, it's too bad we were not able to blow out our MEAC opponent so we could get some garbage time for Oh-my-god-they-Kilkenny Diaw and Sead "ML Carr" Dizdarevic. Which brings us back to the original point of this thread. It was painful watching the Norfolk State game, but let's move on and blow out Howard. See you all for mini-burgers at Match Box.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 29, 2004 23:32:06 GMT -5
Agreed-I think everyone grew tired of the wholesale substitution patterns of the past.
My only point was if the frontcourt players are called into tough situations in January and February, some December time may prove helpful.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 30, 2004 0:01:33 GMT -5
As a bit of a counterpoint, Al Skinner has routinely played a 7-8 man rotation with his BC teams for the past several years and they've done very well with it. If the kids are talented and have stamina, there is nothing wrong with that.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 30, 2004 0:22:52 GMT -5
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 30, 2004 0:54:02 GMT -5
easy ed did you have to bring up the 1985 villanova shooting percentage ouch... too bad kent state didnot hold on to beat the bc traitors.. and howard will be tough to beat theyve one more games than usual so far this year .. go hoyas
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