MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 12:22:32 GMT -5
Hey MCI do me a favor and get off your "what is happenin in the world today" horse. Totally uncalled for moralizing. On this board, we talk about hoya bastketball and so that is what matters HERE. You haven't the first clue what perspective I hold college athletics in general- so back off with that holier than thou act. I can promise you I spend less time on hoya hoops and hoops in general than you do but the last thing I would do ON THIS BOARD would be to tell you to spend less time on the recruiting boards and go spend more time with your family instead or some such stunt. Are you unstable or something? If not you're doing a pretty good imitation by flying off handle. Your overreaction and your barbs suggests that indeed you have lost perspective and need a grip. There was no attack of you in my post. Just my pointing out that there are worse things than a slim victory over a MEAC team. It doesn't matter if you or anyone else needed or did not need that reminder; it was something I felt like pointing out anyway. And to be frank it was not simply directed at you but everyone who was so upset over the game in general. But at least I made it a point to not slam anyone and keep my tone civil...something you were obviously incapable of at this time. Sticks and stones, brother. Happy Holidays.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 29, 2004 12:31:01 GMT -5
I've been to most if not all of the Hoyas games over the past 6 years and I can say last night was the most embarressed I've ever been to call myself a Hoya. Awful effort all around. the thing that really infuriated me was the effort in OT. It's like they thought they were a good team and could "turn it on" at any time. Just awful. For all those people who think we can go 6-10 or something like that in the BE you need to look closely at the team and the talent level...and effort (never thought I'd say that). If we win 3 games it would be a miracle...and I'm dead serious. I don't know what we'll go in the BE (only prediction I've made was 4-12 pre-season), but I really don't understand your logic. The team hasn't played this bad in every game this season, so why would EVERY single game the rest of the way out be this way. We may "Temple" Pitt but we could "Clemson" Rutgers. It is one game. We had the talent to run with Illinois, to crush a (bad) ACC team. The talent didn't disappear. As for effort, I'm not getting into this discussion again. I haven't seen them, but I find people like to resort very quickly to character issues to compensate for wins and losses, which is usually wrong, and spin it the way they feel. I could easily spin it that Brandon is "clutch" because he came up big in OT. I've gotten off topic -- but this team is inconsistent. If we play the BE like this, we'll lose. And if we play it like Clemson, we'll likely win, except maybe against a couple of teams.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 12:34:57 GMT -5
It seems like when the team wins a game like the Clemson one, people inundate the board with talk of a 7+ win big east season. Those are the people that need perspective. hm Actually both sides need some perspective. The optimists who predict upset victories in the Big East after semi-impressive wins as well as the wrist slashers who get indignant after bad losses or unimpressive victories. You're both guilty of the same thing. Since someone suggested I was concentrating more time on the Hoyas than my family let say that a few of you who are disappointed with last night's outcome obviously haven't paid enough attention to the Hoyas or college bball in general. Otherwise they would know that games like last evening's were likley. Almost every BE team so far this season has struggled mightily or lost to supposedly less talented teams from weaker conferences. Why would GTown, a team predicted by pundits to be no better than second-to-last in the elague, be any different? That's not an excuse. That's just the facts. This team will pull off some positive surprises this season. But it will also look pathetic on the court many times as the season progresses.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 12:37:08 GMT -5
I don't know what we'll go in the BE (only prediction I've made was 4-12 pre-season), but I really don't understand your logic. The team hasn't played this bad in every game this season, so why would EVERY single game the rest of the way out be this way. We may "Temple" Pitt but we could "Clemson" Rutgers. It is one game. We had the talent to run with Illinois, to crush a (bad) ACC team. The talent didn't disappear. As for effort, I'm not getting into this discussion again. I haven't seen them, but I find people like to resort very quickly to character issues to compensate for wins and losses, which is usually wrong, and spin it the way they feel. I could easily spin it that Brandon is "clutch" because he came up big in OT. I've gotten off topic -- but this team is inconsistent. If we play the BE like this, we'll lose. And if we play it like Clemson, we'll likely win, except maybe against a couple of teams. Great post.
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FOTP
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Post by FOTP on Dec 29, 2004 12:39:47 GMT -5
Just a quick reality check here...isn't Clemson the worst team in the ACC? Our two "big" wins this year are against the worst teams in the Big Ten and the ACC. A win is a win, but let's not get too crazy here.
The only games we win (against real teams) are when we shoot some ridiculous % from 3. I think it could happen again in the BIG East which is why I give them 3 wins. They may get hot in a couple other games, but it won't matter against top competition.
The effort wasn't there last night...if Ashanti didn't hit a ridiculous 24 foot shot with the shot clock running down then we lose that game.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Dec 29, 2004 12:43:29 GMT -5
Clemson is supposedly a bubble NCAA team this season, aren't they?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 29, 2004 12:44:19 GMT -5
Just a quick reality check here...isn't Clemson the worst team in the ACC? Our two "big" wins this year are against the worst teams in the Big Ten and the ACC. A win is a win, but let's not get too crazy here. The only games we win (against real teams) are when we shoot some ridiculous % from 3. I think it could happen again in the BIG East which is why I give them 3 wins. They may get hot in a couple other games, but it won't matter against top competition. The effort wasn't there last night...if Ashanti didn't hit a ridiculous 24 foot shot with the shot clock running down then we lose that game. I'm not in total disagreement with you, although we would've beaten Clemson without the ridiculous shooting %, I think. Clemson is probably better than Miami, Va Tech and maybe FSU. PSU is probably the worst in the Big Ten. Then again, both are probably better than St. John's. And Rutgers, Seton Hall, an erratic Providence, and others are easily within reach of playing well and winning. This season is going pretty much as expected for me, except that Roy seems to be better than I expected.
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FOTP
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Post by FOTP on Dec 29, 2004 12:50:59 GMT -5
I actually completely forgot about the traitors who went to the ACC. Clemson will be in the bottom 3 with VA Tech and Miami.
I agree. The season has gone as expected. Actually perfectly so.
Roy has definitely shown some flashes and Green can be really good. Wallace is also better than expected.
My feeling on this team is to play the young kids a TON of minutes to see what we have. Play Green, Roy, Wallace etc. as many minutes as they can handle. Then bring in reinforcements next year.
We'll be back in a few years with JTIII at the helm...
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 12:55:21 GMT -5
Just a quick reality check here...isn't Clemson the worst team in the ACC? Our two "big" wins this year are against the worst teams in the Big Ten and the ACC. A win is a win, but let's not get too crazy here. The only games we win (against real teams) are when we shoot some ridiculous % from 3. I think it could happen again in the BIG East which is why I give them 3 wins. They may get hot in a couple other games, but it won't matter against top competition. The effort wasn't there last night...if Ashanti didn't hit a ridiculous 24 foot shot with the shot clock running down then we lose that game. Legitimate points. But isn't this the same situation we were in weeks ago before the season started? We just don't know. You predict a gllom-and-doom scenario which I don't see. But my argument isn't any stronger than yours. However I will point out that some of the biggest naysayers didn't even think we would have 7 wins at this point. I will point out that Clemson was predicted to be third to last in the ACC this season (but who knows if they'll even be that good) and that, if it matters, they have more top 100 talent on their roster than the Hoyas do according to the pundits. I will point out that Penn State did knock off Rutgers on the road and that most people didn't think the Hoyas would win at Davidson. There has only been a couple of games in which the Hoyas three point shooting was out of this world and one of those was against Citadel, a not so respectable team. When you look at the assists and overall higher fg percentage its clear the Hoyas are playing much better as a team than they were at this time last season. They still need a lot of tweaking. More drives to the hoop. More interior passing. Getting to the line more. Posting up more. Running a better fast break...hell running a fast break period. Also a bunch of players have to step it up more espscially the three main upperclassmen (Bowman, Owens, Cook). And Reed has to be more steady. Hibbs has to get better quickly. Ross must stay healthy and keep contributing when called upon, etc. Only player deserving of an A grade so faris Green. But all of these things are capable of happening. And I think most ofthem will take place.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 29, 2004 13:03:47 GMT -5
with the caveat that I have not watched the team play yet this year, it seems the coach has things in the proper perspective (quote from the Post story):
"We can beat any team in the country. We can also lose to any team in the country. That's just the composition of our team right now," Georgetown Coach John Thompson III said. "We're young, inexperienced; we're learning new things. . . . We have to be focused, we have to come to play, every day, every game, no matter who the opponent is. They did a better job of coming in focused than we did today."
RE: Clemson, Yale, and Holy Cross - since I saw the latter two I'd say they are probably better than Norfolk State, but not by a heck of a lot. GPHoya was reasonably impressed by Clemson, but that's not to say they will challenge for the ACC title. They did, however, have good height and strength inside - features that will challenge this year's Hoyas' weaknesses. The proof of this Hoya pudding will come 2-3 years down the road - not this year.
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YB
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Post by YB on Dec 29, 2004 13:08:00 GMT -5
I maintain what I said earlier: This team is young. It will have some high highs and low lows.
But by the end of this year we'll be a team no one wants to play.
They simply have to focus better and develop. No excuses, no substitutes. Experience is the only antidote.
Hope everyone is having a great Holiday season otherwise!
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Dec 29, 2004 13:11:34 GMT -5
Actually both sides need some perspective. The optimists who predict upset victories in the Big East after semi-impressive wins as well as the wrist slashers who get indignant after bad losses or unimpressive victories. You're both guilty of the same thing. Since someone suggested I was concentrating more time on the Hoyas than my family let say that a few of you who are disappointed with last night's outcome obviously haven't paid enough attention to the Hoyas or college bball in general. Otherwise they would know that games like last evening's were likley. Almost every BE team so far this season has struggled mightily or lost to supposedly less talented teams from weaker conferences. Why would GTown, a team predicted by pundits to be no better than second-to-last in the elague, be any different? That's not an excuse. That's just the facts. This team will pull off some positive surprises this season. But it will also look pathetic on the court many times as the season progresses. I don't disagree with you about everyone needing perspective, though I'm not sure why you felt the need to include me as "a wrist slasher." Perhaps that's the problem I meant to address. People who are positive about the team are, rightly, labeled optimists. Those that are skeptical about the teams chances are labeled with euphemisms such as "wrist slashers" or have their basketball knowledge and/or fandom questioned. I certainly expect close games to lesser opponents, ie Long Beach St, but Norfolk St is simply at another level of basketball that this Hoya team, flawed as it is, should not be pushed be the brink by. I have no comment about your family, I am sure they are lovely people, and I hope you enjoyed the holidays with them. hm
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YB
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Post by YB on Dec 29, 2004 13:20:39 GMT -5
As I said, young teams are inconsistent. This is something that neither optimists nor skeptics can deny. Our highs will be high and our lows low.
One side note: This team seems to play better when they have a ton of people in the stands who are loud and cheering for them.
Let's see if we can't support them thru thick and thin and maybe we cheer them to some unexpected Ws.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 29, 2004 13:39:38 GMT -5
before the illinois game, coach thompson was asked about the status of his freshman. his response was that he has an entire team of freshman since it is a totally new system for the players. struggling with the likes of long beach and norfolk one second and creaming clemson and davidson the next is a part of the process i guess.
that said, the problems on defense and the boards needs to be addressed immediatley or we will get our doors blown off by the upper half of the league.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 13:48:22 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you about everyone needing perspective, though I'm not sure why you felt the need to include me as "a wrist slasher." Perhaps that's the problem I meant to address. People who are positive about the team are, rightly, labeled optimists. Those that are skeptical about the teams chances are labeled with euphemisms such as "wrist slashers" or have their basketball knowledge and/or fandom questioned. I certainly expect close games to lesser opponents, ie Long Beach St, but Norfolk St is simply at another level of basketball that this Hoya team, flawed as it is, should not be pushed be the brink by. I have no comment about your family, I am sure they are lovely people, and I hope you enjoyed the holidays with them. hm Thank you. And I was guilty of being more negative to the more pessimistic group than the optimists. I apologize for the wrist slashing comment.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Dec 29, 2004 13:48:55 GMT -5
We're not as bad as our worst game or as good as our best game. We lie somewhere in between.
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Post by FairfaxHoya on Dec 29, 2004 14:07:55 GMT -5
I think the pessimists are trying to read too much into this one game. The bottom line is that we probably overlooked Norfolk State, especially off the win over Clemson. But the important thing is that they found a way to win, ugly as it may be. This is bound to happen with a young team. We're going to hang with the Illini, and then turn around and struggle against lesser teams.
We're certainly not going to be big favorites in many conference games this year, so this is hardly a problem worth agonizing over. We have games looming against Pitt and UConn, and will be heavy underdogs for both. III is going to correct these problems, and they will get better.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 29, 2004 14:15:02 GMT -5
So we played miserably last night. A loss to Norfolk St. would have been humiliating. But didn't we almost lose to Bethune-Cookman about 5 years ago? Didn't that game come down to the last shot (not sure about that, but I recall that it went down to the wire). So it isn't like we've never been in this situation before.
One thing I think we can all safely agree upon is that there is no way to predict from one game to the next at this stage of the year how this team will play. It's ok to be upset when we stink, but let's just take it one game at a time and see what happens.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 15:04:47 GMT -5
I think the pessimists are trying to read too much into this one game. The bottom line is that we probably overlooked Norfolk State, especially off the win over Clemson. But the important thing is that they found a way to win, ugly as it may be. Actually I'm not even sure if it was ugly. The Hoyas shot 50% and had 21 assists to go with 30 field goals. The team may have played uninspired (which is never hard considering the lack of crowds at games), its defense and rebounding may not have been as good as it should have been and the team probably wasted too much time off the clock and taking too many 3 pointers. But ugly? Shooting 40% or below and dishing out about 8 assists would have been ugly.
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Hoya50
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Post by Hoya50 on Dec 29, 2004 15:35:58 GMT -5
why's everyone sweating this game? isn't norfolk state a preseason conference contender, bubble team, top 75 rpi, top 100 sos, dicky v's sleeper pick, the best team no one's heard of, the next gonzaga?
i thought this was a great win. bring on howard - a preseason conference contender, bubble team, top 75 rpi, top 100 sos, dicky v's sleeper pick, the best team no one's heard of, the next gonzaga.
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