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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 8, 2023 7:47:44 GMT -5
If you told me Christmas morning that Ed Cooley would be the next HC, I’d sign for it no questions asked. However, that also glosses over the very real possibility that we pursue Cooley, Pitino/Holtmann/Brey/Mack/etc takes another job, then Cooley ultimately decides he can’t leave PC, and we end with up Amaker or Jones or Ronny. Hiring Rick Pitino (who DEFINITELY wants the job) is a bird in hand. exactly this. There's a very clear path to botching this whole thing and it involves preferring cooley, waiting for him to make a decision, and then he ultimately says no. I am sure that all else being equal the admin would prefer Cooley, but this is insane. They're not equal coaches, Cooley's buyout has to be massive, and yeah is going to cost 4-5M a year. The better coach has no buyout, and openly wants the job. What are we even doing here? There are far worse options than cooley and ultimately if that's how this ends i'll be satisfied, but as I said, you play that game and he says no, then we're totally screwed. And if we're willing to drop that kind of cash, go get Gates
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 2, 2023 17:11:49 GMT -5
There are other coaches out there who consistently succeed and could be available. Example: Herb Sendek, Santa Clara Good track record in several conferences, winning records, recruits well (especially under the radar types), develops players for the pros, plays by the rules. Who knew Herb Sendek has a HoyaTalk burner?
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 23, 2023 16:55:48 GMT -5
Build a winner, you become a more attractive option to local talent
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 23, 2023 11:18:41 GMT -5
I doubt that everyone is okay with the way the NCAA violations shook out. That aspect of this issue is and will be important. The fact that he was exonerated of wrong-doing should concern people?
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 22, 2023 16:45:58 GMT -5
It's always been extremely simple. Pitino is the hire. It's a homerun for everyone involved and he wants it. Period. Look, I don't trust JDG to get things right either since we've been so beaten down by the mismanagement of this program, but to paint him as some academic who doesn't care about sports at all doesn't seem to jive with some tea leave that say the opposite. He's the chair of the NCAA board of governors. Does someone who doesn't care at all about sports even want to be involved with the NCAA let alone be the chair?? It's pretty clear to me he follows the basketball team closely. I'm not saying he's a win at all costs guy who's going to, say, go out and offer Beard a job, but Pitino is so far from radioactive at this point. He's not going out on some limb making a hire like this at this point. Again, I don't have faith or even have inside info as to what JDG really thinks, but this total defeatist attitude on this board is wild to me. I get it, we're so low we can't imagine anything good happening, but it's so damn simple to make this right I would disagree that using a degree of logic is “defeatist.” This is only partially about what should happen, and there is nothing wrong with speculating about what is more likely to happen. For me, conjecture about the latter does not add up to Pitino. YMMV. I wasn't insinuating that using logic is defeatist, merely that the logic being used is. Ie Jack will only look for overly safe hires from the ivies and/or Thompson approved uninspired hires. That very well may come to pass, but it's being spoken about as that's a foregone conclusion. I'm offering an alternative view that maybe, just maybe, there's a glimmer of hope that that's not the case.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 22, 2023 16:15:20 GMT -5
It's always been extremely simple. Pitino is the hire. It's a homerun for everyone involved and he wants it. Period.
Look, I don't trust JDG to get things right either since we've been so beaten down by the mismanagement of this program, but to paint him as some academic who doesn't care about sports at all doesn't seem to jive with some tea leave that say the opposite. He's the chair of the NCAA board of governors. Does someone who doesn't care at all about sports even want to be involved with the NCAA let alone be the chair?? It's pretty clear to me he follows the basketball team closely. I'm not saying he's a win at all costs guy who's going to, say, go out and offer Beard a job, but Pitino is so far from radioactive at this point. He's not going out on some limb making a hire like this at this point. Again, I don't have faith or even have inside info as to what JDG really thinks, but this total defeatist attitude on this board is wild to me. I get it, we're so low we can't imagine anything good happening, but it's so damn simple to make this right
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 17, 2023 15:40:15 GMT -5
sad responses thus far
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 15, 2023 16:42:20 GMT -5
In concept getting the next big thing, who can build a great program here for the next 20 years or so, is a great idea. The problem is that identifying that guy is so inexact that it's almost a crapshoot. Three of the top names along those lines last time we had an opening were Kevin Keatts, Will Wade and King Rice. The results for those three have been, respectively, mediocre but underwhelming, good but got fired and got his program sanctioned, and terrible and likely to lose his job soon at a low major. You mention Gates and a lot of examples of how it CAN work out, but there are also a lot of examples of it not working out. If we look back at your list in 5-10 years, I guarantee a couple of those guys will be doing well, a couple will have been promoted and flopped, a couple will still be doing alright at their lower level job, and a few will make you say "......who?" That's the nature of that kind of hire. I do not truly trust the leadership at Georgetown to be able to separate the next Nate Oats or Tony Bennett from the next King Rice. And I know that winning the press conference and recruiting buzz are secondary to actual coaching ability. But last year the league added some pretty heavy hitters with final 4 experience or multiple elite 8s when Matta, Holloway and Miller were hired. They joined a league with pretty highly regarded and nationally known names like Smart, McDermott, Cooley and Hurley. We lost Jay Wright, but overall the coaching list in this league is pretty stellar. Now imagine St. Johns hires Pitino. Do you really want to hire somebody like Robert Jones or Kyle Keller and match him up against that list of coaches? I can talk myself into some of these guys if it comes to pass, and you hope that good coaching conquers all. But it would seem like we'd be working from a disadvantage if we hire an unknown up-and-comer to take on some coaches with a lot more clout. I appreciate the response and agree there is some risk. As I stated before Oats, Gates, Pikiell, Underwood, all were not the first attempt at hiring the right guy. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Then you move on (admittedly not our strength) and take another shot. But these guys should be the short list for the next coach. The one thing we know, to quote you, "in 5-10 years, I guarantee" Pitino won't be our coach. He is a 2-4 year coach at best. Just too old. It is time to do the diligence and roll the dice with the hot coach looking for a bigger platform. I am sure we are going to make a terrible path of least resistance hire, like always. Brey likely. With Brey we stay bottom half of Big East forever. But at least, as you advocate, we have a coach with a big name like those other Big East coaches you list. People like you advocating for these old tired coaches are just setting the program back. But that's the thing 3-4 years of Pitino brings us back to relevancy and hopefully grooms our next long term coach (or makes our program relevant enough for another good hire). If we don't win and win now there won't be a good next coach who wants to come because we're now DePaul. It's so frustratingly simple for the administration. You have a hall of famer ready and willing that won't break the bank. This should be the easiest coaching search in history and I have no faith it'll happen
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 15, 2023 13:46:53 GMT -5
In: co-head coaches Out: anyone else
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 14, 2023 12:55:34 GMT -5
Skeptical of this. Account created last month. And I don't really buy the sentiment, that Georgetown has it down to 3 candidates (Brey + 2 others). I'd be SHOCKED if we were that far along at this juncture. DeGioia and co. have been so afraid to pull the trigger on Ewing, they were slow as could be to oust JTIII when that happened, do we really think that they are actively negotiating with 3 candidates and engaged in some kind of bidding war while Patrick is still in the seat? I'd be thrilled if we were that far along, but everything about the way DeGioia has operated leads me to believe that he's not having any kind of serious conversations with potential candidates while his beloved Pat is still in the job, for the same reason that he hasn't already been fired (some abstract sense of decorum and loyalty). Exactly, I am also skeptical. My concern about Brey comes more from the fact that I could see Georgetown's administration going for him as a safe choice more than anything. But, bidding war? With whom? I don't think in February, programs are knocking down Brey's door to hire him. And the "heavy hitters" referenced are likely coaching already, and so there'd be no active bidding for any of them either. If we are in a bidding war over only Mike Brey, then something is going horribly wrong. As always, Georgetown likes to negotiate with themselves
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 14, 2023 10:52:21 GMT -5
All of this Mike Brey talk is depressing, not necessarily because of anything to do with Mike Brey (though his bad record of teaching defense is not what we need after Ewing's even significantly more dismal defense), but rather because I feel like unless the administration lucks into something (like it did with JT3 in the early years), that we are consigned to, at best, mediocrity. Let's be clear: unless Georgetown makes a really stupid decision (like hiring Ronny), the odds are we are going to be way better no matter who is hired because Ewing is so bad. Right now, we are one of the worst high major programs. Would someone like Mike Brey or James Jones make us better? Almost definitely. But, I don't want "better," I want someone who is really good or at least has potential to be really good. That's not Mike Brey. There is pretty much universal agreement that hiring JT3 would be a bad decision (even I agree, and I didn't think he should be fired in 2017), and yet JT3's record even as it stands today is better than Mike Brey's. And he was arguably a better Ivy League coach than James Jones. We really need to be shooting for the stars here, not mediocrity. Exactly this
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 8, 2023 12:19:54 GMT -5
Ha they're not bailing on Neptune after one year. That's as ridiculous as Gtown staying with Ewing after going winless
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 2, 2023 15:44:54 GMT -5
You haven’t proposed a single reason why Pitino would be unrealistic. Already have. Multiple times. Go read this posts. He’s not coming here so move on LOL unless you can prove you have spoken to him directly or have direct access to someone who does, saying he won't come here solely as deference to Ewing is hilarious. You seem pretty confident in that statement so I'm genuinely curious who you're getting that information from
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 31, 2023 8:10:05 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I think most of us would agree that the BEST case scenario in making this hire would be that we find our equivalent of Jay Wright or Tony Bennett. Somebody who can come in, establish a culture, win games, and build a program, and then captain the ship for the next couple decades. However, the assumption seems to be that either a) We don't believe that that candidate is out there this cycle or b) He might be out there, but we are not confident enough that we'll be able to find him, so let's try for a high floor option and kick the can down the road on finding our long-term guy for another 5 years or so. Which, though I've embraced it and advocated for it in recent weeks, is still sort of an interesting approach. It seems, to me at least, that Option A should be to do everything we possibly can to determine if the next Jay Wright or Tony Bennett is out there at the mid-major level. If that fails, then Pitino makes a good "stop the bleeding" option, or maybe someone like Chris Mack. Get out of the basement, get back to respectability, and take it from there. I agree that theoretically finding the next Jay Wright or Tony Bennett would be ideal. But, I would argue it's essentially impossible to find that person without a high level of risk. We focus on people like Wright or Bennett because they were successful. But, how many people with similar backgrounds took a jump up and failed? There are a number of them. Even take Jay Wright. At Hofstra, he was successful over 5 years, the team improved year over year, and he made two tournaments. Good, solid record--and one that few mid-major or low-major coaches have at the moment. But at Villnova, it took him 4 seasons to even make the tournament. After three seasons, his Big East record was slightly under .500. Of course, he took off after then, but even so if you look at Wright's record through let's say 2012/2013 it was very, very good, and I would take it any day for us, but the truly spectacular years did not begin under after 2012, a big down years for Wright where Villanova went 5-13 and missed the tournament. In fact, through 2013, Wright and JT3's records were pretty similar. But, obviously, Wright took off after that, and JT3 went in the other direction. Point being--even several years into someone's coaching career, it's hard to say whether their success will last or not. Jay Wright built on his success, JT3 did not. This is why I think the argument for Pitino is so strong--you are basically eliminating that risk of hiring somebody who will fail. You can almost guarantee success, possibly even top 10-type performance, with little downside. I would also note that the examples of people thrown out there as good coaches - Wright, Bennett, Cooley, Shaka Smart, for example - have all had head coaching experience before jumping to their higher-level job. Hiring someone who has never done the job, like an assistant, is a high risk approach. It didn't work for Marquette with Wojo, and while it's too early, Neptune is similarly struggling. And even Adams at Texas Tech, who is a defensive guru, has been struggling. Running a Division I program is hard. We cannot afford to hire a rookie again, like we did in 2017. Bingo. Exactly this
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 30, 2023 20:07:39 GMT -5
I checked in on ChatGPT to see what they thought about the Hoyas this year: why is patrick ewing such a terrible coach? Patrick Ewing is not necessarily a "terrible" coach, but his coaching record in the NBA has been underwhelming so far, with a career win-loss record of 38-126 (.232) in two seasons as head coach. Coaching in the NBA is a challenging job and many factors can contribute to a coach's success or lack thereof, including the talent of the players on the team, injuries, management decisions, etc. It's also worth noting that Ewing is still early in his coaching career and may improve with experience. why are the hoyas so awful this year? The performance of a sports team can be impacted by a number of factors, including injuries, changes in coaching staff, or simply a lack of talent. It is difficult to determine the exact reason for a team's struggles without more information. It is also important to note that a team's performance can fluctuate from year to year and that it is possible for a team to have a down year even if they have been successful in the past. should the hoyas get rick pitino? As a language model, I don't have opinions but I can provide information. The decision to hire a coach is a decision that depends on several factors, including the team's goals and the coach's qualifications and experience. Ultimately, it's up to Georgetown University to decide whether Rick Pitino would be a good fit for their program.Korn Ferry's findings. Here's our invoice for $1M
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 17, 2023 17:07:23 GMT -5
The question is will the right people make the decision on the next hire? If JD & the board are involved chances are high it'll be bungled in much the same manner they're stumbling around now. Agree completely. It may seem strange to some but I don't actually think the biggest question facing the program right now relates to Patrick Ewing--maybe I'm putting too much stock in Hilltop Hoops, but I think that one is just a matter of time. Rather, I think the most important question is who will choose our next coach. The "process" we went through last time and the things that were prioritized led us to a historically bad period for this program, on and off the court. The people who were involved last time should be nowhere near the process this time around. It's not enough to just say "Patrick didn't work out, we need a new direction." We need to analyze and understand WHY Patrick didn't work out, and WHY we hired and committed millions and millions of dollars to a coach who is so unfit for the role. A post-mortem on his tenure, and on the embarrassing "search" that led to it. And then we need a strategy for getting it right this time. The planning for all of this should be underway literally as we speak, but we shall see if Jack has learned anything at all or if he is going to fall back on deferring to the Thompson inner circle. Just to build on my previous post, you could probably put Providence in that same group. They didn't have any embarrassing scandals like the other two, but from '04-'05 through '10-'11 the combination of Tim Welsh and Keno Davis went 41-79 in conference with 2 NIT trips and 0 NCAA tournament births. Then they hired Cooley. In the days of the 16 team Big East, especially in the years when the bottom 4 teams didn't even get to go to MSG to play in the BET, you knew it was always going to be Rutgers, Seton Hall, Providence, Depaul and USF fighting to stay out of those last 4 spots. Maybe St. Johns too. Conversely, you knew it was going to be Georgetown, Pitt, Louisville, UConn and Syracuse fighting it out at the top of the league. In some cases, those fortunes have changed dramatically, in others not so much. This game goes in cycles, to an extent, and it's easy to forget how good or bad someone was 10-15 years back. You can fall off a cliff in a few years as we've seen, but you can also dig out of years of ineptitude within a few years too. It all comes down to who you hire to run the program. Very well said. My same concern. We cannot afford a miss or quite frankly even a middling option.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 9, 2023 14:54:00 GMT -5
It really comes down to whether or not the administration wants to compete nationally in basketball like it has in the past or concede. This should be a perennial top 35 program in the country with most years in the top 25. If they do, then you're taking swings at the big names and starting with Pitino. If you end up with an assistant or Ivy HC then you know where they see Gtown's future, and it's not to be a top program. If that's the direction you go, you cut the amount of funding that basketball gets and we all come to terms with the mediocrity the program will be going forward. I don't think I'm being dramatic by saying this. We cannot afford to go with an unknown quantity on the big stage. Period. You have a layup available. You absolutely put out feelers to the biggest names out there as well. If they're willing to spend the type of money that they have, it will be inexcusable to come away with anything but a sure thing. We've all been beaten down over the past decade + and the program is at a major crossroads. Pretty terrified to see what direction we go to be honest. Not to be a smart ass but the damage done the last 2 years means we cannot be serious about competing “nationally” until we take a year or 3 to stop the bleeding and focus on competing regionally next. The idea that a Cooley would consider leaving PC to go to the worst program in his own conference is laughable. We have put ourselves squarely in the market for a power 5 assistant or a (smaller) mid major hc. Not sure where I wrote that we would be back to competing nationally next year in what I wrote....I said we should be a perennial top 35 program with most years top 25. Should be. Not will be next year. I also never mentioned Cooley however I personally don't think it's as crazy as some think (but certainly not counting on it). I completely disagree with your assertion that we can only get a power 5 assistant or mid major HC...that's insane. We're Georgetown for eff sake. That name does mean something still despite how far we've been driven into the ground. We spend in the top 15 of basketball programs nationwide. We pay our coach $4M a year!! We're an attractive location. My concern is that the powers that be aren't equipped or even have the want to continue to be a top dog anymore. We'll see soon enough. finance.yahoo.com/news/25-colleges-spend-most-men-120050899.html
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 9, 2023 8:39:41 GMT -5
It really comes down to whether or not the administration wants to compete nationally in basketball like it has in the past or concede. This should be a perennial top 35 program in the country with most years in the top 25. If they do, then you're taking swings at the big names and starting with Pitino. If you end up with an assistant or Ivy HC then you know where they see Gtown's future, and it's not to be a top program. If that's the direction you go, you cut the amount of funding that basketball gets and we all come to terms with the mediocrity the program will be going forward. I don't think I'm being dramatic by saying this. We cannot afford to go with an unknown quantity on the big stage. Period. You have a layup available. You absolutely put out feelers to the biggest names out there as well. If they're willing to spend the type of money that they have, it will be inexcusable to come away with anything but a sure thing. We've all been beaten down over the past decade + and the program is at a major crossroads. Pretty terrified to see what direction we go to be honest.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 5, 2023 15:13:38 GMT -5
Yeah I mean if y'all think Pitino is still toxic and we shouldn't touch him, can't imagine Beard wouldn't be worse.
(definitely don't support going after him)
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 5, 2023 9:11:38 GMT -5
This is getting downright sad now. Felt like Ewing was choking back tears in that presser. He's very clearly drawn the line in the sand though, he's not going to quit. Jack, do the right thing and put him (and us) out of misery
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