Two Time Coaching Change Waiver Discussion

[professorhoya]

This article makes it seem that the memo is just a proposal or recommendation that hasn’t been adopted yet.

Either way I think either a coaching change waiver will be added or schools will just use physical and mental well being due to coaching change to get the waiver.


“Jon Rothstein of CBS Sports shared the memo to Twitter, which explains the changes that the NCAA is looking to make regarding the process”


www.on3.com/transfer-portal/news/ncaa-announces-new-waiver-guidelines-for-multi-time-transfers/

[EtomicB]

Mar 27, 2023 10:05:31 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

This article makes it seem that the memo is just a proposal or recommendation that hasn’t been adopted yet.

Either way I think either a coaching change waiver will be added or schools will just use physical and mental well being due to coaching change to get the waiver.



“Jon Rothstein of CBS Sports shared the memo to Twitter, which explains the changes that the NCAA is looking to make regarding the process”


www.on3.com/transfer-portal/news/ncaa-announces-new-waiver-guidelines-for-multi-time-transfers/

It's not the schools who put in the waivers, it's the students. If they go this route they're going to have to prove it in order for the waiver to be approved

I don't think it's a proposal either, it looks like they're saying "run offs" aren't automatic any more

[hoyasaxa2003]

I think this is a good idea. If you just hand out waivers willy nilly then there's really no point in requiring them in the first place, and it will make college basketball even more unstable than it already is.

[TC]

Mar 27, 2023 10:34:53 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

It's not the schools who put in the waivers, it's the students. If they go this route they're going to have to prove it in order for the waiver to be approved

I don't think it's a proposal either, it looks like they're saying "run offs" aren't automatic any more

I don't know how they'll be able to say run offs aren't automatic anymore for second-time transfers until the guaranteed scholarship rule has been in effect for second-time transfers:

www.bestcolleges.com/news/revised-ncaa-rules-guarantee-financial-aid-for-transfer-athletes/

Example : if Kim English runs off a player who has already transferred once - in 2021 - why shouldn't that player get a waiver? If I'm reading the rule correctly, if the player transferred into Providence in 2021, their scholarship is not guaranteed. If their scholarship were guaranteed at Providence, that would be one thing - there'd be no reason for a run off waiver because that kid could finish their degree at Providence if they wanted to. However, I don't think a first time transfer before August 31, 2022 is guaranteed that.

[professorhoya]

Mar 27, 2023 10:56:43 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I think this is a good idea. If you just hand out waivers willy nilly then there's really no point in requiring them in the first place, and it will make college basketball even more unstable than it already is.

You don’t think it’s unjust that a coach can leave and the player has to stay at the school with a replacement coach that he has zero relationship with?

Maybe coaches who change schools twice should have to sit out a year also then.

[EtomicB]

Mar 27, 2023 11:07:55 GMT -5 TC said:

Mar 27, 2023 10:34:53 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

It's not the schools who put in the waivers, it's the students. If they go this route they're going to have to prove it in order for the waiver to be approved

I don't think it's a proposal either, it looks like they're saying "run offs" aren't automatic any more

I don't know how they'll be able to say run offs aren't automatic anymore for second-time transfers until the guaranteed scholarship rule has been in effect for second-time transfers:

www.bestcolleges.com/news/revised-ncaa-rules-guarantee-financial-aid-for-transfer-athletes/

Example : if Kim English runs off a player who has already transferred once - in 2021 - why shouldn't that player get a waiver? If I'm reading the rule correctly, if the player transferred into Providence in 2021, their scholarship is not guaranteed. If their scholarship were guaranteed at Providence, that would be one thing - there'd be no reason for a run off waiver because that kid could finish their degree at Providence if they wanted to. However, I don't think a first time transfer before August 31, 2022 is guaranteed that.

Kids can still transfer but they will have to sit out for a year.

[hoya9797]

Mar 27, 2023 11:41:56 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Mar 27, 2023 11:07:55 GMT -5 TC said:

I don't know how they'll be able to say run offs aren't automatic anymore for second-time transfers until the guaranteed scholarship rule has been in effect for second-time transfers:

www.bestcolleges.com/news/revised-ncaa-rules-guarantee-financial-aid-for-transfer-athletes/

Example : if Kim English runs off a player who has already transferred once - in 2021 - why shouldn't that player get a waiver? If I'm reading the rule correctly, if the player transferred into Providence in 2021, their scholarship is not guaranteed. If their scholarship were guaranteed at Providence, that would be one thing - there'd be no reason for a run off waiver because that kid could finish their degree at Providence if they wanted to. However, I don't think a first time transfer before August 31, 2022 is guaranteed that.

Kids can still transfer but they will have to sit out for a year.

If they are in a situation where they are effectively kicked out of school because the new coach doesn’t want to renew the scholarship, it’s absurd that the player would be expected to sit out at a new school. If it can be demonstrated that the scholarship was renewed but he chose to leave anyway, then I can see where a sit out is justified but I’d guess that is pretty rare in this new coach situation.

[calhoya]

Isn't this like trying to put the genie back in the bottle? NCAA has made a mockery of transfer rules in recent years and granted waivers for a wide variety of reasons. I have no problem saying any kid can transfer if there is a coaching change.

[EtomicB]

Mar 27, 2023 11:55:32 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Mar 27, 2023 11:41:56 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Kids can still transfer but they will have to sit out for a year.

If they are in a situation where they are effectively kicked out of school because the new coach doesn’t want to renew the scholarship, it’s absurd that the player would be expected to sit out at a new school. If it can be demonstrated that the scholarship was renewed but he chose to leave anyway, then I can see where a sit out is justified but I’d guess that is pretty rare in this new coach situation.

What you described isn't rare at all, neither Spears nor Heath had coaching changes or were in jeopardy of losing PT but both transferred anyway. This happens all the time.

Look at the Taylor kid from Butler or check the portal list.

Imho, the sit-out year is a good rule for most players, especially academically.

[EtomicB]

Mar 27, 2023 11:59:05 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Isn't this like trying to put the genie back in the bottle? NCAA has made a mockery of transfer rules in recent years and granted waivers for a wide variety of reasons. I have no problem saying any kid can transfer if there is a coaching change.

As I always state, the NCAA = The schools that make up the sport.

These aren't NCAA rules, they are rules the chosen leaders of college athletics decided upon.

Having said that I agree that the transfer rules are silly..

[hoya9797]

Mar 27, 2023 12:43:34 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Mar 27, 2023 11:55:32 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

If they are in a situation where they are effectively kicked out of school because the new coach doesn’t want to renew the scholarship, it’s absurd that the player would be expected to sit out at a new school. If it can be demonstrated that the scholarship was renewed but he chose to leave anyway, then I can see where a sit out is justified but I’d guess that is pretty rare in this new coach situation.

What you described isn't rare at all, neither Spears nor Heath had coaching changes or were in jeopardy of losing PT but both transferred anyway. This happens all the time.

Look at the Taylor kid from Butler or check the portal list.

Imho, the sit-out year is a good rule for most players, especially academically.

Sure but that’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about a situation with a new coach coming in and how I’m guessing most transfers related to that are usually told they won’t have a scholarship renewal. In that case, making them also sit is not right.

[EtomicB]

Mar 27, 2023 13:04:31 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Mar 27, 2023 12:43:34 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

What you described isn't rare at all, neither Spears nor Heath had coaching changes or were in jeopardy of losing PT but both transferred anyway. This happens all the time.

Look at the Taylor kid from Butler or check the portal list.

Imho, the sit-out year is a good rule for most players, especially academically.

Sure but that’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about a situation with a new coach coming in and how I’m guessing most transfers related to that are usually told they won’t have a scholarship renewal. In that case, making them also sit is not right.

I would be ok with a waiver for coaching changes especially firings but that was one of the main reasons the free transfer rule was started.

Kids have to use it wisely now.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Mar 27, 2023 11:09:07 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Mar 27, 2023 10:56:43 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I think this is a good idea. If you just hand out waivers willy nilly then there's really no point in requiring them in the first place, and it will make college basketball even more unstable than it already is.

You don’t think it’s unjust that a coach can leave and the player has to stay at the school with a replacement coach that he has zero relationship with?

Maybe coaches who change schools twice should have to sit out a year also then.

I would be willing to grant waivers for coaching changes for the obvious reasons. But, many guys (like Heath) transfer twice where there is no coaching change.

If the rosters change every year because of what amounts to free agency the college game is going to lose its appeal for many. It’s already hard to keep track of the rosters and it seems like we are starting from scratch every year (though hopefully Cooley will make that aspect better).

Again, I cannot think of any revenue based team sport, even professionally, where players can leave at will. It gets even more complicated when you add in NIL. Professional players cannot just leave their teams when there are coaching changes, for example. Again, I’m willing to allow waivers for coaching changes perhaps but we are already at the point where it’s absurd and I don’t want it to get worse.

My original idea was to require players to stay for 2 years (or let them leave under the old rule where you sit a year) and then allow free transfers. That would allow some stability while also giving players some choice. But that’ll never happen.

[jpj]

Jon Rothstein
@jonrothstein

Sources: As of today, the NCAA has only approved 18% of waivers for two-time transfers in all sports who attempted to earn immediate eligibility during the 2023-24 academic year.

[kghoya]

We've come a long way since the initial post in this thread

[professorhoya]

Sept 1, 2023 20:26:02 GMT -5 jpj said:

Jon Rothstein
@jonrothstein

Sources: As of today, the NCAA has only approved 18% of waivers for two-time transfers in all sports who attempted to earn immediate eligibility during the 2023-24 academic year.

1 out of 5 waivers have been granted and it’s only September. that number should continue to go up til mid December.

It will be interesting to see what Rothstein ends up saying given he claimed there wouldn’t be any waivers.

[EtomicB]

Sept 2, 2023 14:59:45 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Sept 1, 2023 20:26:02 GMT -5 jpj said:

Jon Rothstein
@jonrothstein

Sources: As of today, the NCAA has only approved 18% of waivers for two-time transfers in all sports who attempted to earn immediate eligibility during the 2023-24 academic year.

1 out of 5 waivers have been granted and it’s only September. that number should continue to go up til mid December.

It will be interesting to see what Rothstein ends up saying given he claimed there wouldn’t be any waivers.

I think it's safe to assume Rothstein was talking about CBB only but here's what we're hearing about CFB.

It's not looking good for the two-timers in CBB.

theathletic.com/4821074/2023/08/30/ncaa-transfer-waiver-rules-charlie-baker/

As the denials were issued this month, Power 5 schools whose new players were affected expressed their disappointment. North Carolina is appealing the decision on behalf of receiver Tez Walker, who enrolled at North Carolina Central prior to the cancelled 2020 FCS season but left without playing a game and then played at Kent State for two seasons. Florida State defensive lineman Darrell Jackson Jr., who played at Maryland and Miami and applied for a hardship waiver after returning home to the Tallahassee area to be closer to his ailing mother, also had his waiver denied. And Colorado coach Deion Sanders criticized the NCAA’s treatment of mental health issues when transfer offensive lineman Tyler Brown was denied immediate eligibility after following Sanders from Jackson State.

“Look, you’re talking about less than one percent of all transfers,” Baker said Wednesday.

www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38163792/ncaa-says-waiver-criteria-2-transfers-tightened-new-policy

[hoyasaxa2003]

The NCAA needs to enforce the no-two time transfer waivers otherwise the rule is meaningless. I'm glad they're granting fewer. Granting waivers for a second transfer (other than some exceptions, like coaching changes, for example) makes an already unstable system even worse.

[EtomicB]

Sept 2, 2023 22:22:18 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

The NCAA needs to enforce the no-two time transfer waivers otherwise the rule is meaningless. I'm glad they're granting fewer. Granting waivers for a second transfer (other than some exceptions, like coaching changes, for example) makes an already unstable system even worse.

Agreed & fortunately the signs are looking good.

Also after this season the bonus Covid year will be be over so that will calm the portal down as wel since there won’t be nearly as many grad transfers..

[EtomicB]