How Does this end?

[drquigley]

Obviously this can't go on much longer so the only question is how does it end? Here are my 3 scenarios but I'm sure there are others:

1. Ewing resigns (for the good of the program he loves) sometime during the season - after Nova and Marquette blowouts? Nickelberry takes over as interim coach and shortly after the end of the BET we announce as new HC and major overhaul of the BBall program ensues.

2. Ewing lasts til the end of the season. He is fired since he will insist he's not a quitter and can turn the program around. Too late to find a qualified replacement so Nickleberry is selected. No change and the misery continues.

3. Same as #2 above but after 2-3 years of Nickelberry University announces it is considering a major change in the basketball program. Keeping with it's effort to brand itself an elite academic institution GU announces it will leave the Big East, end its affiliation with Cap One, play its home games at McDonough and join the Patriot League. My fear is that the pressure, cost and growing seediness of big time college BBall will convince the GU Board that, just as we did with football, it's time to accept the inevitable and go small.

I dread #3 but it is looking more and more possible.

[mapei]

I could live with #3 if we have to. It's better than this. I would prefer that someone have a heart to heart talk with Patrick and find the most dignified and classy way to bring about #1. #2 is possible but I don't think Nickleberry is likely to be the successor.

[iowa80]

No. 1 is obviously the most desirable, and that’s why it won’t happen. A modified No. 2 without Nickleberry and a possible PE “resignation” is the most likely. No way in the immediate future for No. 3.

[johnnysnowplow]

Jan 2, 2023 14:29:29 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Obviously this can't go on much longer so the only question is how does it end? Here are my 3 scenarios but I'm sure there are others:

1. Ewing resigns (for the good of the program he loves) sometime during the season - after Nova and Marquette blowouts? Nickelberry takes over as interim coach and shortly after the end of the BET we announce as new HC and major overhaul of the BBall program ensues.

2. Ewing lasts til the end of the season. He is fired since he will insist he's not a quitter and can turn the program around. Too late to find a qualified replacement so Nickleberry is selected. No change and the misery continues.

3. Same as #2 above but after 2-3 years of Nickelberry University announces it is considering a major change in the basketball program. Keeping with its effort to brand itself an elite academic institution GU announces it will leave the Big East, end its affiliation with Cap One, play its home games at McDonough and join the Patriot League. My fear is that the pressure, cost and growing seediness of big time college BBallwill convince the GU Board that, just as we did with football, it's time to accept the inevitable and go small.

I dread #3 but it is looking more and more possible.

College basketball has been seedy for a VERY long time. If anything it is LESS seedy now that paying players doesn’t have to go through shady characters and dubious channels. But our administration, based on the comments from last week, clearly does not view it that way. So you may be right in the way they see it, but that’s far from the actual truth. Which is more or less par for the course.

[hoyasaxaphone]

Another option would be to appoint Nickelberry or Baldwin as Interim Head Coach with the explicit statement that such interim coach will not be in consideration for the new Head Coach position. This does happen, though it is a bit awkward. Need the right person and I don't think that Nickelberry would be that person. Perhaps Baldwin might be.

Ewing could also announce (or be forced to announce) that he is leaving at the end of the season......providing a window for a early coaching search to commence.

I also could see your #3 as a potential option.....particularly if Jack could cloke it in some kind of "diversity, equity and inclusion" spin. Georgetown could still claim the high road for the John Thompson hire decades ago.........and claim the high road now for returning to a true student athlete model in a world where that model is increasingly inconsistent with big time college athletics. Recent performance would be excused as neither Georgetown's nor Patrick Ewing's fault......just a victim to a changing system. I, personally, still think it is possible to run a program like Stanford or Notre Dame with a semblance of an academic bar and a commitment to graduate student athletes - but that program would likely be middle of the pack Big East at best (if coached appropriately). Georgetown has enjoyed the institutional bounce from the 1980s basketball program and I do not think that perpetuating a big time program does much for the University - or perhaps even the current students (I really don't know). It would certainly be a disappointment for those of us who lived have through and supported GU basketball for the past 45 years....but we are a disappearing species. JT III did a pretty good job of running a program that I could be proud of as a alumni. Lots of smart kids (high school valedictorians/salutorians) mixed in with somewhat less academically capable but good kids. And he graduated them. His coaching system, like it or not, made it possible for some success. The Ewing and now Ewing/Nickelberry regime has tossed all of this away in a desparate attempt to find some wins. The dismisals, transfers, and the increasingly mercenary nature of our players makes this a really hard to team to root for - on an individual, team or coach basis. And no one is graduating. I lived through, and enjoyed, the years of the Hoyas playing in McDonough with fun teams to support and classmates to cheer for. The level of basketball made no difference to me..........and we still had our moments. Maybe it is time for that again.

[DallasHoya]

Jan 2, 2023 15:29:21 GMT -5 hoyasaxaphone said:

Another option would be to appoint Nickelberry or Baldwin as Interim Head Coach with the explicit statement that such interim coach will not be in consideration for the new Head Coach position. This does happen, though it is a bit awkward. Need the right person and I don't think that Nickelberry would be that person. Perhaps Baldwin might be.

Ewing could also announce (or be forced to announce) that he is leaving at the end of the season......providing a window for a early coaching search to commence.

I also could see your #3 as a potential option.....particularly if Jack could cloke it in some kind of "diversity, equity and inclusion" spin. Georgetown could still claim the high road for the John Thompson hire decades ago.........and claim the high road now for returning to a true student athlete model in a world where that model is increasingly inconsistent with big time college athletics. Recent performance would be excused as neither Georgetown's nor Patrick Ewing's fault......just a victim to a changing system. I, personally, still think it is possible to run a program like Stanford or Notre Dame with a semblance of an academic bar and a commitment to graduate student athletes - but that program would likely be middle of the pack Big East at best (if coached appropriately). Georgetown has enjoyed the institutional bounce from the 1980s basketball program and I do not think that perpetuating a big time program does much for the University - or perhaps even the current students (I really don't know). It would certainly be a disappointment for those of us who lived have through and supported GU basketball for the past 45 years....but we are a disappearing species. JT III did a pretty good job of running a program that I could be proud of as a alumni. Lots of smart kids (high school valedictorians/salutorians) mixed in with somewhat less academically capable but good kids. And he graduated them. His coaching system, like it or not, made it possible for some success. The Ewing and now Ewing/Nickelberry regime has tossed all of this away in a desparate attempt to find some wins. The dismisals, transfers, and the increasingly mercenary nature of our players makes this a really hard to team to root for - on an individual, team or coach basis. And no one is graduating. I lived through, and enjoyed, the years of the Hoyas playing in McDonough with fun teams to support and classmates to cheer for. The level of basketball made no difference to me..........and we still had our moments. Maybe it is time for that again.

I agree option #3 is a real possibility - I posted the following 15 months ago, before the disaster of last season (and the current one):

My opinion only: I don't see how the University's view of the role of athletics and the status of student-athletes can co-exist with where NIL is going and the concept of one and two year college players that don't even have the pretense of seeking a degree. Either the University will need to change its view - which is highly unlikely given its historical antipathy to materially changing anything - or in 3-5 years Georgetown basketball will not exist in any semblance of the way we now know it, and certainly nothing like it was in the past.

[3xhoya]

Can someone please explain to me what nefarious activity is taking place at the other schools throughout the Big East? This holier than thou attitude is pure laziness and an excuse to bury their heads about how inept they are at running a program.

[jackofjoy]

Not with a whimper, but with a bang

[SDHoya]

Jan 2, 2023 16:15:18 GMT -5 DallasHoya said:

Jan 2, 2023 15:29:21 GMT -5 hoyasaxaphone said:

Another option would be to appoint Nickelberry or Baldwin as Interim Head Coach with the explicit statement that such interim coach will not be in consideration for the new Head Coach position. This does happen, though it is a bit awkward. Need the right person and I don't think that Nickelberry would be that person. Perhaps Baldwin might be.

Ewing could also announce (or be forced to announce) that he is leaving at the end of the season......providing a window for a early coaching search to commence.

I also could see your #3 as a potential option.....particularly if Jack could cloke it in some kind of "diversity, equity and inclusion" spin. Georgetown could still claim the high road for the John Thompson hire decades ago.........and claim the high road now for returning to a true student athlete model in a world where that model is increasingly inconsistent with big time college athletics. Recent performance would be excused as neither Georgetown's nor Patrick Ewing's fault......just a victim to a changing system. I, personally, still think it is possible to run a program like Stanford or Notre Dame with a semblance of an academic bar and a commitment to graduate student athletes - but that program would likely be middle of the pack Big East at best (if coached appropriately). Georgetown has enjoyed the institutional bounce from the 1980s basketball program and I do not think that perpetuating a big time program does much for the University - or perhaps even the current students (I really don't know). It would certainly be a disappointment for those of us who lived have through and supported GU basketball for the past 45 years....but we are a disappearing species. JT III did a pretty good job of running a program that I could be proud of as a alumni. Lots of smart kids (high school valedictorians/salutorians) mixed in with somewhat less academically capable but good kids. And he graduated them. His coaching system, like it or not, made it possible for some success. The Ewing and now Ewing/Nickelberry regime has tossed all of this away in a desparate attempt to find some wins. The dismisals, transfers, and the increasingly mercenary nature of our players makes this a really hard to team to root for - on an individual, team or coach basis. And no one is graduating. I lived through, and enjoyed, the years of the Hoyas playing in McDonough with fun teams to support and classmates to cheer for. The level of basketball made no difference to me..........and we still had our moments. Maybe it is time for that again.

I agree option #3 is a real possibility - I posted the following 15 months ago, before the disaster of last season (and the current one):

My opinion only: I don't see how the University's view of the role of athletics and the status of student-athletes can co-exist with where NIL is going and the concept of one and two year college players that don't even have the pretense of seeking a degree. Either the University will need to change its view - which is highly unlikely given its historical antipathy to materially changing anything - or in 3-5 years Georgetown basketball will not exist in any semblance of the way we now know it, and certainly nothing like it was in the past.

While I don't see a version of #3 happening in the immediate future, I would agree that something like this is very possible. But it wouldn't just be GU "going to the Patriot League"--it would be a much larger split among NCAA institutions, between those who are willing to sponsor fully professionalized sports franchises, and those who are not. For now, as "wild westy" as NIL is, there remains some plausible deniability for the schools--i.e., they are still "student athletes" and any payments are coming from third parties. But this clearly will not last. The NLRB is already taking the position that USC athletes should be considered "employees". There is a lot of litigation before that turns into anything, but that seems to be the eventual direction. And when that happens, and the guise of "amateurism" is completely lifted, I would be very surprised if GU isn't in the group that ditches big money sports.

Until then, I do expect GU to try to compete at the BE level. Although Ewing was not fired after last season, its clear that some kind of ultimatum was made by the admin to figure things out ASAP. That led to the assistant coaching changes and transfers--which many here may have found distasteful, but certainly evidences some level of intent to compete even within the new NIL landscape. This is also why I fully believe that Ewing (as well as the current assistants) will be gone no later than shortly after the end of the season.

[drquigley]

Jan 2, 2023 16:32:52 GMT -5 3xhoya said:

Can someone please explain to me what nefarious activity is taking place at the other schools throughout the Big East? This holier than thou attitude is pure laziness and an excuse to bury their heads about how inept they are at running a program.

By sleaziness I didn't necessarily mean nefarious or illegal. I just meant that with NIL and transfer portals it will be harder and harder to run a program that GU could support, i.e. at least two year students with decent graduation rates and academic success. I think we are just now seeing how other schools handle it and I suspect that in a few years many BE schools will start having to choose between academics and basketball. In a way I can see how this parallels what happened (and is now accelerating) to college football. Maybe some BE schools will adapt and maybe thrive -- I'm looking at you UCONN. And maybe some BE schools will learn how to play the game -- I'm looking at you Creighton, Xavier, Marquette, St. Johns. But I wouldn't be surprised if others like us, Nova, maybe Seton Hall and Providence either opt out of big time BE BBall or resign themselves to becoming doormats. Face it, it won't be long before top recruits see what's happening and either head to the top programs with highest NIL potential or transfer to those schools when they can. And also face it, these schools will not be the kind of places JT2, Bobby Knight, Dean Smith, Coach K, or Jay Wright would ever be attracted to.

[Bigs"R"Us]

If we don’t land an impactful coach we could remain mired in mediocrity or worse for the next decade or more.

[SSHoya]

Jan 2, 2023 17:23:26 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

If we don’t land an impactful coach we could remain mired in mediocrity or worse for the next decade or more.

Actually, it's now close to the end of Hoya basketball as we once knew it. We've reached Malcolm Gladwell's tipping point from which there will be no return.

[kettlehill]

I am so sick of the narrative: “ It’s just not working out for Patrick at Georgetown.” The implication being that it might just work out somewhere else. The national sports media need to get past their affection for “the Big Fella” and their fear of Big John’s ghost. Tell it like it is: this man has had more than enough time to prove that he can coach at this level. He cannot. He is-objectively- an abject failure. He is embarrassing himself, his legacy in the game and the institution he supposedly reveres, all the while collecting millions of dollars a year. He needs to go, along with ALL that have contributed to this mess.

The WAPO types should be leading this charge, vociforosly. This is DC’s team. For the Washington Post to ignore this diseased program on the Hilltop is reprehensible. The Post couldn’t print enough stories about the Hoyas back in the day. Now silence? They need to grow some, and do their jobs.

[hoyazeke]

I may be delusional but I don't believe we are the same team with Nickelberry coaching. I don't believe Nickelberry or any other coach would run our players into the ground like this 🤷🏾‍♂️

[hoya9797]

Jan 2, 2023 17:43:18 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

I may be delusional but I don't believe we are the same team with Nickelberry coaching. I don't believe Nickelberry or any other coach would run our players into the ground like this 🤷🏾‍♂️

I’m very curious, at which point did you finally give up on the idea that Ewing is a good coach?

[guru]

Jan 2, 2023 17:37:36 GMT -5 kettlehill said:

I am so sick of the narrative: “ It’s just not working out for Patrick at Georgetown.” The implication being that it might just work out somewhere else. The national sports media need to get past their affection for “the Big Fella” and their fear of Big John’s ghost. Tell it like it is: this man has had more than enough time to prove that he can coach at this level. He cannot. He is-objectively- an abject failure. He is embarrassing himself, his legacy in the game and the institution he supposedly reveres, all the while collecting millions of dollars a year. He needs to go, along with ALL that have contributed to this mess.

The WAPO types should be leading this charge, vociforosly. This is DC’s team. For the Washington Post to ignore this diseased program on the Hilltop is reprehensible. The Post couldn’t print enough stories about the Hoyas back in the day. Now silence? They need to grow some, and do their jobs.

This is not DC’s team. We haven’t recruited all that heavily from DC in decades. Right now we have to get back to being a respectable college program - if we ever start winning again, Post coverage will follow. Right now, I can’t argue with their lack of interest.

[DonkDonk]

Jan 2, 2023 17:37:36 GMT -5 kettlehill said:

The WAPO types should be leading this charge, vociforosly. This is DC’s team. For the Washington Post to ignore this diseased program on the Hilltop is reprehensible. The Post couldn’t print enough stories about the Hoyas back in the day. Now silence? They need to grow some, and do their jobs.

WaPo is basically a shell of itself from those days. They don’t really do those types of investigations anymore (and not just regarding Georgetown or local sports). Additionally, any tenuous “in” they have to the program would be fully severed with any clearly negative story about GU.

[EasyEd]

A distinct fourth option is for the admin to do nothing and let Ewing finish his contract despite his record and despite graduating almost no students. Don't think this could not happen. It would enable admin to dodge making a significant decision. JD could then sail off into the sunset without facing the Thompson ire following any attempt to man up to them. Leave it to the next guy/gal to face the music.

[professorhoya]

Jan 2, 2023 18:32:47 GMT -5 DonkDonk said:

Jan 2, 2023 17:37:36 GMT -5 kettlehill said:

The WAPO types should be leading this charge, vociforosly. This is DC’s team. For the Washington Post to ignore this diseased program on the Hilltop is reprehensible. The Post couldn’t print enough stories about the Hoyas back in the day. Now silence? They need to grow some, and do their jobs.

WaPo is basically a shell of itself from those days. They don’t really do those types of investigations anymore (and not just regarding Georgetown or local sports). Additionally, any tenuous “in” they have to the program would be fully severed with any clearly negative story about GU.

Yup, Washington Post itself is dead. Nobody reads that.
Internet killed it.

[professorhoya]

What most big time programs do is the boosters buy out the contract. And then tell the school who to bring in.

You can put your Money where your mouth is and buy the contract out.