TC
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Post by TC on Jan 3, 2023 9:13:53 GMT -5
You don't fork over $12M if Ronny is staying around. The fact that this sounds like it is outside money is a plus.
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Massholya
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Post by Massholya on Jan 3, 2023 9:24:30 GMT -5
This approach only hurts the players and recruits. Yes they may all leave and you can’t effectively finish the season but that is the bed you made by allowing this situation to fester. The “right” thing to do at this point is rip off the band aid so that you can move forward with airing out the program. Half measures are only going to prolong the rebuilding process at this point.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 3, 2023 9:34:31 GMT -5
It’s almost as if JT2 and JD had ample time to discuss the future of Gtown basketball while JT2 was alive. JD has loyalties that extend back four decades. No normal coach could survive 0-20, even at GU. No one could have imagined the depths that we would reach. JD’s stomach is probably turning with every loss. I do think he cares about the program, but is in an uncomfortable situation for someone of his nature. While not an easy situation this has put Jack’s incompetence in the public light. He has to do something here. Probably the easiest way out is a joint announcement that Ewing will finish out the season and then step down. It allows the most important thing for the program….time to start the search now. This is the obvious compromise answer, and I hope it comes to pass. Negotiate a buyout and let Patrick announce that he will be stepping down at the end of the season. You can manufacture a reason if you feel it necessary (family reasons, health reasons, "personal reasons" etc.) or just say the obvious truth, that it hasn't turned out to be a fit. It defuses all the tension surrounding the program right now. There's no more need for signs and paper bags and scathing articles and the like when there is a defined end date for the current situation. Patrick can still say he's not a quitter and that he will continue to give maximum effort for the duration of his tenure. We can all politely golf clap for him at home games, regardless of what we really think of him, rather than having to contemplate whether we need to boo him. And most importantly, it lets us begin the search for the next head coach right now.
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Post by wponds on Jan 3, 2023 10:04:19 GMT -5
Whatever they do, there needs to be clarity before tomorrow night's game.
I don't understand how you can lose to the second and third-worst teams in the conference - one of those by 29 at home - and just show up like nothing happened to play against Villanova
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 3, 2023 10:27:15 GMT -5
Whatever they do, there needs to be clarity before tomorrow night's game. I don't understand how you can lose to the second and third-worst teams in the conference - one of those by 29 at home - and just show up like nothing happened to play against Villanova Villanova's not very good this year, either. Better than us, sure, but it's not the same old Nova that used to exist when Jay Wright was coach. They've taken a major step back.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 3, 2023 10:56:14 GMT -5
The reality is that buying out Ewing without also firing Ronny doesn't accomplish much. At this point, I'm good with Ewing staying throughout the season and making it even more obvious that the whole group of them need to go. JD has a big decision on his hands with his legacy on the line. Ewing and Ronny's legacies are sealed at this point. Exactly. If the story is true, I am glad that there might actually be change. But if Ronny and co. survive a Ewing dismissal, we are still going to be set up for failure. Let me remind you that Ronny Thompson was a total and utter failure at Ball State, and has absolutely no qualifications to run a Division I program of any type, much less a Big East program. His sole qualification is his last name, and that's not good enough.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 3, 2023 10:59:44 GMT -5
You don't fork over $12M if Ronny is staying around. The fact that this sounds like it is outside money is a plus. You can bet if I was ponying up buyout money, I'd include the strings attached that (a) Ronny and everyone else associated with the program needs to go, and (b) we need a real coaching search that will consider all candidates. More immediately, if a change happens, it really needs to happen early enough so Georgetown can make a hire ASAP following the season. The ideal may be for Ewing to coach out the season, announce before the BET that a change is happening, and give Ewing a chance to coach a last game with dignity. I want to reiterate that as bad as I think Ewing is as a coach, I hate that this happened. It's not good for Georgetown, it's not good for Patrick Ewing, it's really not even good for us as fans. Unfortunately, Jack DeGioia, John Thompson Jr., and Ronny Thompson helped to put Ewing in a position where this had to happen. Had we done a real search in 2017 and hired the best person available, everyone would be better off.
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hoyaroc
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Post by hoyaroc on Jan 3, 2023 11:26:55 GMT -5
Get your check book and buyout Ewing contract. I said this last season when there was discussion about the buyout. It’s quite obvious now that JD will honor the contract until expiration date. Life comes at you fast Never start with a source. 😂
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 3, 2023 11:45:00 GMT -5
You don't fork over $12M if Ronny is staying around. The fact that this sounds like it is outside money is a plus. You can bet if I was ponying up buyout money, I'd include the strings attached that (a) Ronny and everyone else associated with the program needs to go, and (b) we need a real coaching search that will consider all candidates. More immediately, if a change happens, it really needs to happen early enough so Georgetown can make a hire ASAP following the season. The ideal may be for Ewing to coach out the season, announce before the BET that a change is happening, and give Ewing a chance to coach a last game with dignity. I want to reiterate that as bad as I think Ewing is as a coach, I hate that this happened. It's not good for Georgetown, it's not good for Patrick Ewing, it's really not even good for us as fans. Unfortunately, Jack DeGioia, John Thompson Jr., and Ronny Thompson helped to put Ewing in a position where this had to happen. Had we done a real search in 2017 and hired the best person available, everyone would be better off. Well, except Pat, Ronny and their cronies… 😉 They would be out of jobs and Pat would still be an assistant coach…
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 3, 2023 11:50:52 GMT -5
You can bet if I was ponying up buyout money, I'd include the strings attached that (a) Ronny and everyone else associated with the program needs to go, and (b) we need a real coaching search that will consider all candidates. More immediately, if a change happens, it really needs to happen early enough so Georgetown can make a hire ASAP following the season. The ideal may be for Ewing to coach out the season, announce before the BET that a change is happening, and give Ewing a chance to coach a last game with dignity. I want to reiterate that as bad as I think Ewing is as a coach, I hate that this happened. It's not good for Georgetown, it's not good for Patrick Ewing, it's really not even good for us as fans. Unfortunately, Jack DeGioia, John Thompson Jr., and Ronny Thompson helped to put Ewing in a position where this had to happen. Had we done a real search in 2017 and hired the best person available, everyone would be better off. Well, except Pat, Ronny and their cronies… 😉 They would be out of jobs and Pat would still be an assistant coach… Actually, Pat would have been better off - his reputation secure as a HOFer player and a career assistant NBA coach!! Better that than destroying your reputation as he has done for the last 5 years save for the blip of the BET Championship - clearly the outlier.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 3, 2023 11:51:55 GMT -5
Whatever they do, there needs to be clarity before tomorrow night's game. I don't understand how you can lose to the second and third-worst teams in the conference - one of those by 29 at home - and just show up like nothing happened to play against Villanova I think that game is the SH home game. They still think they can pull off a miracle vs Villanova, and Marquette is away. Most of the students will be back by the SH game.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 3, 2023 11:58:54 GMT -5
Well, except Pat, Ronny and their cronies… 😉 They would be out of jobs and Pat would still be an assistant coach… Actually, Pat would have been better off - his reputation secure as a HOFer player and a career assistant NBA coach!! Better that than destroying your reputation as he has done for the last 5 years save for the blip of the BET Championship - clearly the outlier. If he’s like his mentor JT2, he preders the $31M. He still stubbornly thinks it’s not him, it’s the players, so maybe he’ll never be embarrassed. There’s no way he would’ve made that much as a coach in the NBA. Plus, he had 13 years of earning low six-figures trying to land the NBA head coach position, while paying alimony, divorce and extracurricular expenses. I don’t think he leaves one dime on the table.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 3, 2023 12:03:45 GMT -5
Actually, Pat would have been better off - his reputation secure as a HOFer player and a career assistant NBA coach!! Better that than destroying your reputation as he has done for the last 5 years save for the blip of the BET Championship - clearly the outlier. If he’s like his mentor JT2, he preders the $31M. He still stubbornly thinks it’s not him, it’s the players, so maybe he’ll never be embarrassed. There’s no way he would’ve made that much as a coach in the NBA. Plus, he had 13 years of earning low six-figures trying to land the NBA head coach position, while paying alimony, divorce and extracurricular expenses. I don’t think he leaves one dime on the table. I understand your point, but who knows how much $$ Ewing has or needs. If he has been listening to David Falk and whatever financial advisers he should have retained, he shouldn't really need the $$. But I get there's a huge difference between "need" and "want." clutchpoints.com/patrick-ewings-net-worth-in-2022
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Post by teddy16 on Jan 3, 2023 13:52:23 GMT -5
its not just $$$ thats the solution. The TAC and Cooper Field are proof of that (the "build it and they will come" or will level the playing field and make our teams more successful etc.., it's a bogus claim). Similarly, alumni buying out Ewing is not the only remedy. it's also ensuring that the proper decision apparatus and commitment by GU to make the "leadership" revisions that must occur in order to achieve success. (otherwise GU is likely to repeat its record of poor decision making, afterall thats been the one constant for over 20 years) Replacing Ewing is not necessarily going to move the needle. the required changes involve more than 1 individual. How and who manages the hoops program is a real question and the board and active alumni need to focus on that - otherwise we end up back in the same position 4 yrs from now. not only is it not 1984 - its not even 2004 yet GU remains stuck in its own mud coming up on 2024
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 3, 2023 14:35:25 GMT -5
I will go on record as saying again that I do not, in any way, blame Ewing for wanting his buyout if he departs (similarly, I did not begrudge JT3 for getting the two years remaining on his deal when he was fired). The ONLY reason we are in this predicament is because in 2021, Jack DeGioia and whoever else approves these things (presumably the Board) approved a sweetheart deal for Patrick Ewing that (a) was not deserved, (b) was an enormous amount of money for someone with little success, (c) given to a guy who had TWO YEARS remaining on his contract, and (d) did not have to be made because nobody was trying to steal Patrick Ewing away from us.
That Jack DeGioia made a boneheaded, and arguably negligent/reckless decision in throwing money at Patrick Ewing, with no basis, at a time when the university was supposedly reeling from COVID, is not Patrick Ewing's fault. This is really no different from a professional sports team throwing away millions of dollars to players who end up being horrible or do not live up to expectations. The only difference is that many of us feel a stake because we are alumni and give the university money.
Frankly, I think somebody needs to answer for the contract extension. The Board should be demanding answers. In a public company or a public university, one might even be subject to lawsuits for these types of decisions. This harkens back to the same thing as the 2017 search for a coach. It doesn't seem like any rational, detached/independent thinking people are involved in any of these decisions, likely stemming from the incestuous nature of the administration being filled of people who know Georgetown only and nothing else. It is hard to imagine ANY outsider giving Ewing that extension. Any.
Keep in mind, that DeGioia had a ton of options in front of him after 2021 if he somehow wanted to show Ewing goodwill. Maybe give him one more year. Or give him a 3 year extension, but work in a performance based buyout (i.e., finish below .500 two consecutive years, and there is no buyout or its smaller). I am not totally convinced DeGioia would have moved on last year even if Ewing did not have the extension, but I also feel like it constrained us so that decision became impossible, even though at almost any other university it would have been an automatic dismissal.
Frankly, I am tired of all this, and I am sure everyone else here is similarly exhausted. We are no longer fans of a basketball program, since there is no worthy basketball to speak of. Even the game threads tend to devolve into talk about moving on because the program is on life support, and everybody knows it. But, I really do think that we need more than just a change of direction in the coach's office. I think the decision making Georgetown used, that led us here, needs attention too. I think the latter is much less likely to happen.
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 3, 2023 14:57:47 GMT -5
Im sure there are more than a few big time donors that lurk around this corner of the web. To anyone that has agreed to contribute to Coach Ewing’s buyout, I am truly grateful for you helping to bail us out of this mess, and I pray you never have to give up your hard earned money to something like this ever again.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 3, 2023 15:08:54 GMT -5
At this point I just want to move on. I have long since given up hope that JD and the Administration can or will acknowledge the mistakes that were made in hiring an unproven coach just to mollify the icon whose son was being terminated. I have long since given up hope that Ewing will stop throwing his players under the bus for every poor performance and start looking in the mirror--not just with the obligatory "we have to coach better" remarks, but with some genuine recognition that he has contributed mightily to the failures in this program. I have been waiting hopelessly for some accountability at the coaching level and among the designated "stars" and some opportunity for the back end of the rotation. Let them try and if they fail what does it really matter since the season is lost any way.
I assume that the players are gone next year along with the coach and that is a shame as I would truly like to see what someone with more coaching skill could have done with the talent on hand this year. Let's hope for a resignation sooner than later as there is nothing to be gained from letting them play out the string. More lopsided defeats and frustration. More lackluster efforts as players become demoralized. More selfish play. Even fewer fans. What can possibly be gained from allowing this situation to fester any longer. I will gladly give Nickleberry the opportunity to show if a different voice makes any difference.
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DonkDonk
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Post by DonkDonk on Jan 3, 2023 16:18:31 GMT -5
You don't fork over $12M if Ronny is staying around. The fact that this sounds like it is outside money is a plus. Getting rid of a Thompson and a Ewing in one fell swoop is way too much for Jack to even contemplate. I bet Ronny stays.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 3, 2023 18:24:41 GMT -5
To be clear, the whole NIL thing is entirely a red herring. Picture this scenario: we have a coach who is a really good, solid guy. He's a really good X's and O's coach. We put out a solid offensive and defensive product. But, our talent is lagging. That coach has trouble recruiting because we cannot dole out NIL money. So, we are a .500ish type program, ranked maybe in the 40-50 range on KenPom, with defense and offensive maybe in the 30-60 range. We are always competitive, make the NCAA tournament on occasion, but not regularly because we cannot get the right guys to commit because they want NIL payments, and Georgetown cannot do that. If that was our scenario, I would say fine. We are doing all we can do. We landed the 2nd best transfer class and a decent HS class. That is what NIL gets you. If we didn't pay anyone we still got the spoils that NIL would have provided. As you said trying to blame that is nonsense.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 3, 2023 19:09:47 GMT -5
To be clear, the whole NIL thing is entirely a red herring. Picture this scenario: we have a coach who is a really good, solid guy. He's a really good X's and O's coach. We put out a solid offensive and defensive product. But, our talent is lagging. That coach has trouble recruiting because we cannot dole out NIL money. So, we are a .500ish type program, ranked maybe in the 40-50 range on KenPom, with defense and offensive maybe in the 30-60 range. We are always competitive, make the NCAA tournament on occasion, but not regularly because we cannot get the right guys to commit because they want NIL payments, and Georgetown cannot do that. If that was our scenario, I would say fine. We are doing all we can do. We landed the 2nd best transfer class and a decent HS class. That is what NIL gets you. If we didn't pay anyone we still got the spoils that NIL would have provided. As you said trying to blame that is nonsense. We have some really nice pieces in Wahab, Heath, Akok, Murray and Spears but all of them badly need coaching especially Murray who is often out of control, and Spears who plays out of control and makes horrible decisions and takes way too many bad shots. I really think we have more talent than Butler, even though it wasn't evident in the score and won't be as long as Ewing is coaching the team. To his credit, Ewing pulled a rabbit out of the hat by taking on Nickelberry, getting Murray, Akok, and Spears. After last year, I truly thought our roster would be doomed, and I was wrong on that. But, I don't see how a Ewing led program could possibly recruit out of high school and bring in guys through the portal. I cannot even imagine what the appeal is to kids when it's been over a year since winning a Big East game.
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