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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 5, 2022 10:00:37 GMT -5
hilltophoops.substack.com/p/ronny-thompson-georgetown-basketball-influenceThis stands to be reposted again. The problems the program is facing are bigger then just Patrick. When the end is here (and let's be honest, it has been here for a few years and the administration just didn't want to acknowledge it), the house cleaning needs to be thorough and swift. We have been like the Redskins/WFT/Commanders in riding the glory of the 80's to color our judgement of where we stand in the college basketball landscape. We have enabled a level nepotism to effect the entire men's basketball operation. One of the great things about the Gtown athletic department is how small and tight knit of a community it is. This gives coaches a lot of runway to fail prior to righting the ship (ex.just look at our men's lax program which is now in great shape after a rough coaching start). Sometimes this is a solid approach. It eliminates some of the need for immediate success. Patrick has not been surrounded with successful people though. The Ronny Thompson story is the most glaring of these cases. Here is a guy was given an assistant coaching job because of his Dad in 1998. I'm not mad at him for that. Any Dad would do that. He then maintained that job under Esherick because of his Dad. He then poached a recruit from us and headed to Arkansas. He got the head job at Ball State and screwed that up so badly he appeared to fabricate a story (and evidence to boot) out of thin air and then was largely unemployable as a college basketball coach. He sullied the well so poorly at Ball State that Gtown somehow thought, yes, we gotta have him. This is the insane part. In the article above it highlights some of the institutional rot that leads to us being unsuccessful on the court. Every building maintenance person, executive assistant, scheduler, tutor, etc likely sees the issues and finds ways to work around them (ie..Ronny). You also can't moonlight as a TV personality while dedicating yourself full time to the pursuit of a successful Georgetown team. The next coach needs to have authority to fire any and everybody to right the ship. This is why I don't think you can bring someone in who doesn't have experience running a program. With Ronny et al still in the picture, this will be like the Snyder's trying to fix the Commanders. The problems at the top are transparent. The problems below the surface are equally if not more troubling.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 5, 2022 10:05:45 GMT -5
Yeah that’s what I fear most after making changes that Ronny sticks around because it’s hard to expect a younger guy to turn around a program when there are incompetent people meddling so that’s why an experienced coach that has a stronger personality is needed
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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 5, 2022 10:12:26 GMT -5
This is why I’m against hiring a young mid-major coach. You need someone with the leverage to fully clear house, and that only would come from someone who is established and has the ability to walk away from the job if they don’t have complete say.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 5, 2022 10:14:44 GMT -5
If JD doesn’t know how to fire him, give Ronny a “bye and stay away” package. I know it is not merited, but merit doesn’t matter in DeGioia’s Administration.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 5, 2022 10:16:00 GMT -5
An interesting option for DeGioia/the Board would be to fire Ronny Thompson right away - i.e., today. He can't be as expensive to buyout as Ewing (can he...calling Falk, David) and it would allow Ewing the rest of this season to at least run the program as his own man. I'm very confident that whatever advice Ronny has been giving Pat is bad advice. I also think the optics of having Ronny anywhere near the program are awful.
Recognizing at this point we still owe Ewing $12M+, what would it hurt to see if he can somehow salvage this season with Ronny nowhere around, eliminating one huge irritant that fans are upset about in the meantime?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 5, 2022 10:27:41 GMT -5
Yeah that’s what I fear most after making changes that Ronny sticks around because it’s hard to expect a younger guy to turn around a program when there are incompetent people meddling so that’s why an experienced coach that has a stronger personality is needed I'll continue to state the "hot" or in demand coach isn't coming to Gtown as long as the current leadership structure is in place. RT has to go no doubt but why would anyone want to report to JD who obviously has zero clue on how to run a HM program. I'll also post again that JD could start the ball rolling right now by announcing today that the team will immediately fall under the purview of the athletic department going forward. Lee Reed isn't completely innocent in this mess but he knows what it takes better than anyone in the administration
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 5, 2022 10:38:53 GMT -5
An interesting option for DeGioia/the Board would be to fire Ronny Thompson right away - i.e., today. He can't be as expensive to buyout as Ewing (can he...calling Falk, David) and it would allow Ewing the rest of this season to at least run the program as his own man. I'm very confident that whatever advice Ronny has been giving Pat is bad advice. I also think the optics of having Ronny anywhere near the program are awful. Recognizing at this point we still owe Ewing $12M+, what would it hurt to see if he can somehow salvage this season with Ronny nowhere around, eliminating one huge irritant that fans are upset about in the meantime? [br Howze does Ronny even have a job?
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Dec 5, 2022 11:08:08 GMT -5
I would take a flyer on a experienced assistant with good recruiting chops ONLY if the entire group from Ronny on down are let go BEFORE the hire. If the new coach wants to keep any of them they can interview. Clean slate - complete clean start. And Lee Reed should be in charge. He does pretty damn well with the other sports with what he has to work with. RT should be NOWHERE in the mix. Time to let the shadow Rest In Peace! And I can’t tell you how hard this is for me to say.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 5, 2022 11:08:50 GMT -5
This is why I’m against hiring a young mid-major coach. You need someone with the leverage to fully clear house, and that only would come from someone who is established and has the ability to walk away from the job if they don’t have complete say. This really is why someone like Rick Pitino would be a great choice. A strong personality, a great Hall of Fame coach, and there's *no way* someone like Pitino would agree to coach at Georgetown with Ronny breathing down his neck. If Ronny is still in the picture, I'm not sure it matters who the head coach is because Ronny is not qualified to run a high major basketball program (as his stints at Ball State and Georgetown, now, demonstrate). If he has any role or influence, we will fail. Ronny's continued influence is how you end up replacing Ewing with someone like Tommy Amaker who is totally uninspiring. Fixing this program will simply not work unless a new coach has full power to remake the program without having to pay homage to the least successful of the Thompson men. I just think the stakes are so high at this point because of the rot that we cannot take risks on young unproven assistants who have never been head coaches before. We either need someone who has already operated a program at a high level (Pitino, maybe Mack) or an up and coming head coach who already has shown success somewhere else. The "young assistant" thing is incredibly risky because more often than not you get Wojo, and not someone who succeeds. While I've been suspect of Ronny's influence for some time, the fact that his role was hidden for years and that DeGioia gave Ewing the extension in covert fashion (i.e., not publicly announcing a huge contract, which I know they don't HAVE to do, but it would be good as a business matter) makes me think that without change even above Ronny, we aren't going to get real change with the basketball program.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 5, 2022 11:24:44 GMT -5
Yeah that’s what I fear most after making changes that Ronny sticks around because it’s hard to expect a younger guy to turn around a program when there are incompetent people meddling so that’s why an experienced coach that has a stronger personality is needed I'll continue to state the "hot" or in demand coach isn't coming to Gtown as long as the current leadership structure is in place. RT has to go no doubt but why would anyone want to report to JD who obviously has zero clue on how to run a HM program. I'll also post again that JD could start the ball rolling right now by announcing today that the team will immediately fall under the purview of the athletic department going forward. Lee Reed isn't completely innocent in this mess but he knows what it takes better than anyone in the administration Agree with this. I think Lee Reed would have gone out and gotten a Dennis Gates or some other competent hire if he was allowed to. We have a ton of success in our athletic department, it just isn't in the revenue sports. Both men's & women's lax and soccer are probably the most visible with other sports that we commit to doing just fine, Baseball, Track, CC, Sailing. The only sports we don't do well in we don't commit the financial resources to so I think the result is about what you would expect, football. The problem with hoops is it is the biggest sport by a country mile in terms of visibility and financial commitment and from all angles, it doesn't appear that Lee Reed is driving the ship.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 5, 2022 11:32:09 GMT -5
Lee Reed definitely does not drive the ship. Frankly, given the amount of money spent on basketball, I am not sure that he should, but in this case, Reed would likely be an improvement on DeGioia. Even at public universities the big football/basketball program decisions usually involve people in higher positions than the Athletic Director (and in public universities, especially the big ones like Texas, LSU, etc., the Athletic Director's role is usually substantially bigger/more influential than Reed's). While I don't think someone like Reed should have sole power to choose coaches, etc., the Athletic Director should have a role other than issuing half-hearted statements of confidence. But, that's not the Georgetown way.
Frankly, I just want someone--whoever that is--to make a sensible decision whenever a new coach is chosen. Do a real search. Evaluate all potential possible candidates. Weigh their pros and cons. And then pick the person best suited for the role (obvioiusly, a subjective decision, but it should be an informed decision).
But, hiring Korn Ferry, and then having your former legendary coach go around that process to encourage someone to apply (because he was in the "family" - Ewing's words, not mine) because of his connection to the university, and not because of his qualifications, is the best indication of a broken process, likely to yield bad results.
If you have a good, reasonable process in place, and the guy you choose as coach fails, so be it. But, that's not what happened in 2017, and I don't want to repeat that again.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 5, 2022 11:37:17 GMT -5
This is why I’m against hiring a young mid-major coach. You need someone with the leverage to fully clear house, and that only would come from someone who is established and has the ability to walk away from the job if they don’t have complete say. This description will fit all the best candidates available... Folks have to understand that's why Gtown ended up with PE, the search couldn't even get Amaker to interview for the job... Coaches weren't interested in dealing with JT2 then but now it's dealing with an incompetent administration.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 5, 2022 12:25:18 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 5, 2022 12:57:49 GMT -5
If you want to see a foretelling of the damage Ronnie would later do, find a video of the UTEP game from ’91 or so. Watch him get undeserved minutes and proceed to throw away the game with bad shots and decisions.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 5, 2022 13:41:12 GMT -5
Yeah that’s what I fear most after making changes that Ronny sticks around because it’s hard to expect a younger guy to turn around a program when there are incompetent people meddling so that’s why an experienced coach that has a stronger personality is needed I'll continue to state the "hot" or in demand coach isn't coming to Gtown as long as the current leadership structure is in place. RT has to go no doubt but why would anyone want to report to JD who obviously has zero clue on how to run a HM program.I'll also post again that JD could start the ball rolling right now by announcing today that the team will immediately fall under the purview of the athletic department going forward. Lee Reed isn't completely innocent in this mess but he knows what it takes better than anyone in the administration Agree with what you said except for the bolded part. JDG appears to be a fairly patient, hands off administrator who gives the leader of the basketball program resources to operate. Esh got an extension before running his mouth off and JT3 was around for years after the 1st round losses to 12th seeded Nobody State. You want a supportive, hands off boss. I’d argue he’s not supposed to do more than hire qualified people and put them in a position to succeed. The problem he hired two people manifestly unqualified to do their job and the results bear that out. If he cleans house and gave the keys to the program to someone like Pitino or Mack (or Smart in prior offseasons), I imagine they’d be happy to report directly to him.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Dec 5, 2022 13:47:22 GMT -5
Imagine doing your background on Ronny and concluding he was fit to be 'chief of staff' for one of (or used to be) the top 20 programs in America.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 5, 2022 13:49:28 GMT -5
A child destroying a business the father built is a tale as old as time. In some cases it’s the grandchild .
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 5, 2022 14:25:55 GMT -5
If you want to see a foretelling of the damage Ronnie would later do, find a video of the UTEP game from ’91 or so. Watch him get undeserved minutes and proceed to throw away the game with bad shots and decisions. “Inbound specialist”!!! I promise that one of the pre-season previews by the Basketball Program at the time had that as part of his bio. Kid you not! With that description, you would think he was the pillar of confidence for the team. Instead, he played like a nervous jittery bug.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 5, 2022 14:35:23 GMT -5
I'll continue to state the "hot" or in demand coach isn't coming to Gtown as long as the current leadership structure is in place. RT has to go no doubt but why would anyone want to report to JD who obviously has zero clue on how to run a HM program.I'll also post again that JD could start the ball rolling right now by announcing today that the team will immediately fall under the purview of the athletic department going forward. Lee Reed isn't completely innocent in this mess but he knows what it takes better than anyone in the administration Agree with what you said except for the bolded part. JDG appears to be a fairly patient, hands off administrator who gives the leader of the basketball program resources to operate. Esh got an extension before running his mouth off and JT3 was around for years after the 1st round losses to 12th seeded Nobody State. You want a supportive, hands off boss. I’d argue he’s not supposed to do more than hire qualified people and put them in a position to succeed. The problem he hired two people manifestly unqualified to do their job and the results bear that out. If he cleans house and gave the keys to the program to someone like Pitino or Mack (or Smart in prior offseasons), I imagine they’d be happy to report directly to him. I don't think JD is hands-off & patient, I don't think he cares much one way or the other as DFW has told us on many occasions the MBB program is not anywhere near a priority for him at this time... Top coaches aren't coming to a school where the program isn't important to the top person in the University.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 5, 2022 14:38:13 GMT -5
Agree with what you said except for the bolded part. JDG appears to be a fairly patient, hands off administrator who gives the leader of the basketball program resources to operate. Esh got an extension before running his mouth off and JT3 was around for years after the 1st round losses to 12th seeded Nobody State. You want a supportive, hands off boss. I’d argue he’s not supposed to do more than hire qualified people and put them in a position to succeed. The problem he hired two people manifestly unqualified to do their job and the results bear that out. If he cleans house and gave the keys to the program to someone like Pitino or Mack (or Smart in prior offseasons), I imagine they’d be happy to report directly to him. I don't think JD is hands-off & patient, I don't think he cares much one way or the other as DFW has told us on many occasions the MBB program is not anywhere near a priority for him at this time... Top coaches aren't coming to a school where the program isn't important to the top person in the University. This doesn’t make sense when the Program has a $15M budget. It is just not his fiefdom. It’s understood that that’s the Thompson’s family business. JD doesn’t ruffle feathers.
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