Institutional Rot - The Ronny Thompson Story

[Elvado]

Dec 6, 2022 10:54:10 GMT -5 hoya73 said:

Some are posting as if Pitino would stiff Iona midseason to take a job here. that's pie in the sky. If Ewing leaves midseason, Nickleberry or Baldwin would interim.

Two more proven losers.

[hoyaroc]

Dec 6, 2022 9:25:11 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Dec 6, 2022 8:52:43 GMT -5 ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

If they clear Ronny & Howze out, Pitino could also reach out to prior players (Wallace, Freeman, Adams) and rebuild an alumni base. Keep Nickleberry possibly through year end and then Pitino could make a decision to retain him or not. I think from all accounts, he seems to have done what was asked of him in bringing in some talent and he seems to be the key connect on our lone recruit next year.

Be careful what you wish for with Nickleberry. He's a Ronny guy through and through and has been both unsuccessful and part of a staff with major NCAA violations.

You act like Pitino doesn’t come with corruption at highest level. 😂

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Dec 6, 2022 9:25:11 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Dec 6, 2022 8:52:43 GMT -5 ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

If they clear Ronny & Howze out, Pitino could also reach out to prior players (Wallace, Freeman, Adams) and rebuild an alumni base. Keep Nickleberry possibly through year end and then Pitino could make a decision to retain him or not. I think from all accounts, he seems to have done what was asked of him in bringing in some talent and he seems to be the key connect on our lone recruit next year.

Be careful what you wish for with Nickleberry. He's a Ronny guy through and through and has been both unsuccessful and part of a staff with major NCAA violations.

That is true but I don't see how we don't give an interim tag to somebody. I assume it has to be Nickleberry and frankly I could see the kids having a short term bump with a slight change in philosophy. If Ronny is gone at year end, it will be a good year.

[Bigs"R"Us]

Dec 6, 2022 11:15:14 GMT -5 hoyaroc said:

Dec 6, 2022 9:25:11 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Be careful what you wish for with Nickleberry. He's a Ronny guy through and through and has been both unsuccessful and part of a staff with major NCAA violations.

You act like Pitino doesn’t come with corruption at highest level. 😂

Pitino will get you wins. Right now, we are losing and not graduating kids. Pitino can recruit high school kids, so our graduation rate may improve as well. Folks who graduated from the university care about such things.

[hoyaatheart55]

Pitino would have us back in the tournament by year 2, and serious contenders not just in the conference but nationally by year 3 or 4. He’s a sleazeball, but I will hold my nose and enjoy the winning. YES PLEASE.

[Elvado]

It will never happen on Jack’s watch….

And I do hope I am wrong here.

[RBHoya]

The word "rot" in the thread title feels appropriate. I was listening to Trent Dilfer yesterday talk about the job ahead of him in taking over the UAB football program, and he was saying when things are so badly broken, you don't just remodel, you have to tear everything down and rebuild from scratch. I think that's where Georgetown Basketball is also. We have to tear this thing down completely and hand over full autonomy to someone with a clear vision of what Georgetown can be and who has the skills and the personality to bring that vision to fruition.

Watching the cavalcade of players entering the transfer portal in college football the last few days, and seeing how quickly that stuff unfolds after the end of the season, really underscores for me how important the timing of all this is. We CANNOT afford a repeat of 2017 as it pertains to timing. In 2017 we lost our last game on March 8th and the announcement on JTIII's dismissal did not come until the 23rd, 15 days later. Only then did we START our search, eventually hiring Patrick 10 days later on April 3rd.

The way things work today with the transfer portal, that's WAY too long. We cannot allow almost a month to pass between the end of our season and hiring the next coach. Plenty of players will have entered the portal and committed elsewhere by that point, not to mention that top coaching candidates usually come off the board before April anyway.

I'm a firm believer in the "if it's clear that it has to happen eventually, then it has to happen now" approach on these kinds of things. Even if Jack and the Board are intent on letting Ewing ride out this season (which I don't agree with), they need to do everything ELSE to have their ducks in a row by March 8th 2023 when our season ends. That means a) resolving the "Chief of Staff" situation b) figuring out and/or installing the person who will make the next head coaching decision and c) giving that person time to do diligence, talk to agents via back channels, etc. That way on the day after the season ends, a move is made with the current head coach and we can quickly move on to the next person. If we take our sweet time convening the board and negotiating with Falk and whatever else, not only do we risk losing other good coaching candidates, but we're significantly handicapping whomever we do hire by not giving them a chance to pitch to every player they're interested in in the portal.

[madgesiq92]

Dec 6, 2022 10:54:10 GMT -5 hoya73 said:

Some are posting as if Pitino would stiff Iona midseason to take a job here. that's pie in the sky. If Ewing leaves midseason, Nickleberry or Baldwin would interim.

Or Ronny!

[hoyasaxa2003]

While I understand the desire for a mid season change (and it certainly wouldn’t upset me), I really don’t think that’s the best thing for the program, unless there’s a player revolt or something that requires it.

In my mind, for reasons I’ve stated before we need a total tear down to have any real change, including Ronny and his buddies. The odds this would happen mid-season are almost zero. It just isn’t realistic. Nor is someone like Pitino going to abandon his team at Iona mid-season, frankly, that would be really bad form, and as much as I would welcome him with open arms to Georgetown, expecting him to do that mid season is also bad form.

Next, making a change automatically means Nickelberry or Baldwin slot in as interim coach (though I suppose Orr could fill that role too, but unlikely). And then the danger becomes that they marginally improve and the administration says “oh wow look how well he did, let’s give him 5 years!” There is nobody on the current staff worthy of the job, and so I don’t want to set someone up to inherit it by inertia. In fact, I would actually support Orr as an interim, only because you know he’s not getting the job.

If we just let Ewing ride it out, I think the odds of a full cleaning out is more likely (especially if we are horrible and guys transfer). That said, internally the university absolutely must make a decision before the end of the year. You cannot do a search in late March or April like last time because by then most of the good candidates are taken and you lose valuable time.

If I were DeGioia, I (or someone I trust) and would be on the phone with Pitino or his agent and see if he’s interested in becoming coach, and set the wheels in motion so you can make a quick hire. And if that doesn’t work out, then reach out to others in the same capacity.

None of this is rocket science. It’s just what normal programs do.

[1427hoya]

Dec 6, 2022 13:03:36 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

While I understand the desire for a mid season change (and it certainly wouldn’t upset me), I really don’t think that’s the best thing for the program, unless there’s a player revolt or something that requires it.

In my mind, for reasons I’ve stated before we need a total tear down to have any real change, including Ronny and his buddies. The odds this would happen mid-season are almost zero. It just isn’t realistic. Nor is someone like Pitino going to abandon his team at Iona mid-season, frankly, that would be really bad form, and as much as I would welcome him with open arms to Georgetown, expecting him to do that mid season is also bad form.

Next, making a change automatically means Nickelberry or Baldwin slot in as interim coach (though I suppose Orr could fill that role too, but unlikely). And then the danger becomes that they marginally improve and the administration says “oh wow look how well he did, let’s give him 5 years!” There is nobody on the current staff worthy of the job, and so I don’t want to set someone up to inherit it by inertia. In fact, I would actually support Orr as an interim, only because you know he’s not getting the job.

If we just let Ewing ride it out, I think the odds of a full cleaning out is more likely (especially if we are horrible and guys transfer). That said, internally the university absolutely must make a decision before the end of the year. You cannot do a search in late March or April like last time because by then most of the good candidates are taken and you lose valuable time.

If I were DeGioia, I (or someone I trust) and would be on the phone with Pitino or his agent and see if he’s interested in becoming coach, and set the wheels in motion so you can make a quick hire. And if that doesn’t work out, then reach out to others in the same capacity.

None of this is rocket science. It’s just what normal programs do.

I see the concerns over firing Ewing midseason. This season is obviously a lost cause.

The big step they could do now is fire Ronny - effective immediately. That would send a signal that the University considers the state of the program to be unacceptable. We’d get the sense changes are coming. It would also help discussions you’d have with a Pitino(or agents) that the deck is clear for when they do take the job

[hoyaboya]

Dec 6, 2022 13:19:53 GMT -5 1427hoya said:

Dec 6, 2022 13:03:36 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

While I understand the desire for a mid season change (and it certainly wouldn’t upset me), I really don’t think that’s the best thing for the program, unless there’s a player revolt or something that requires it.

In my mind, for reasons I’ve stated before we need a total tear down to have any real change, including Ronny and his buddies. The odds this would happen mid-season are almost zero. It just isn’t realistic. Nor is someone like Pitino going to abandon his team at Iona mid-season, frankly, that would be really bad form, and as much as I would welcome him with open arms to Georgetown, expecting him to do that mid season is also bad form.

Next, making a change automatically means Nickelberry or Baldwin slot in as interim coach (though I suppose Orr could fill that role too, but unlikely). And then the danger becomes that they marginally improve and the administration says “oh wow look how well he did, let’s give him 5 years!” There is nobody on the current staff worthy of the job, and so I don’t want to set someone up to inherit it by inertia. In fact, I would actually support Orr as an interim, only because you know he’s not getting the job.

If we just let Ewing ride it out, I think the odds of a full cleaning out is more likely (especially if we are horrible and guys transfer). That said, internally the university absolutely must make a decision before the end of the year. You cannot do a search in late March or April like last time because by then most of the good candidates are taken and you lose valuable time.

If I were DeGioia, I (or someone I trust) and would be on the phone with Pitino or his agent and see if he’s interested in becoming coach, and set the wheels in motion so you can make a quick hire. And if that doesn’t work out, then reach out to others in the same capacity.

None of this is rocket science. It’s just what normal programs do.

I see the concerns over firing Ewing midseason. This season is obviously a lost cause.

The big step they could do now is fire Ronny - effective immediately. That would send a signal that the University considers the state of the program to be unacceptable. We’d get the sense changes are coming. It would also help discussions you’d have with a Pitino(or agents) that the deck is clear for when they do take the job

^This times 1000. It's by far the best way to go and even allows Ewing to have the full conference season to see if he can pull a rabbit out of his hat.

Having Ronny around does nothing positive for the program at this point. Unless he's got blackmail material on the university or its leadership, this is an absolute no-brainer.

[bigskyhoya]

Dec 6, 2022 13:19:53 GMT -5 1427hoya said:

Dec 6, 2022 13:03:36 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

While I understand the desire for a mid season change (and it certainly wouldn’t upset me), I really don’t think that’s the best thing for the program, unless there’s a player revolt or something that requires it.

In my mind, for reasons I’ve stated before we need a total tear down to have any real change, including Ronny and his buddies. The odds this would happen mid-season are almost zero. It just isn’t realistic. Nor is someone like Pitino going to abandon his team at Iona mid-season, frankly, that would be really bad form, and as much as I would welcome him with open arms to Georgetown, expecting him to do that mid season is also bad form.

Next, making a change automatically means Nickelberry or Baldwin slot in as interim coach (though I suppose Orr could fill that role too, but unlikely). And then the danger becomes that they marginally improve and the administration says “oh wow look how well he did, let’s give him 5 years!” There is nobody on the current staff worthy of the job, and so I don’t want to set someone up to inherit it by inertia. In fact, I would actually support Orr as an interim, only because you know he’s not getting the job.

If we just let Ewing ride it out, I think the odds of a full cleaning out is more likely (especially if we are horrible and guys transfer). That said, internally the university absolutely must make a decision before the end of the year. You cannot do a search in late March or April like last time because by then most of the good candidates are taken and you lose valuable time.

If I were DeGioia, I (or someone I trust) and would be on the phone with Pitino or his agent and see if he’s interested in becoming coach, and set the wheels in motion so you can make a quick hire. And if that doesn’t work out, then reach out to others in the same capacity.

None of this is rocket science. It’s just what normal programs do.

I see the concerns over firing Ewing midseason. This season is obviously a lost cause.

The big step they could do now is fire Ronny - effective immediately. That would send a signal that the University considers the state of the program to be unacceptable. We’d get the sense changes are coming. It would also help discussions you’d have with a Pitino(or agents) that the deck is clear for when they do take the job

What a wonderful holiday gift that would be!

[RBHoya]

Dec 6, 2022 13:03:36 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

While I understand the desire for a mid season change (and it certainly wouldn’t upset me), I really don’t think that’s the best thing for the program, unless there’s a player revolt or something that requires it.

In my mind, for reasons I’ve stated before we need a total tear down to have any real change, including Ronny and his buddies. The odds this would happen mid-season are almost zero. It just isn’t realistic. Nor is someone like Pitino going to abandon his team at Iona mid-season, frankly, that would be really bad form, and as much as I would welcome him with open arms to Georgetown, expecting him to do that mid season is also bad form.

Next, making a change automatically means Nickelberry or Baldwin slot in as interim coach (though I suppose Orr could fill that role too, but unlikely). And then the danger becomes that they marginally improve and the administration says “oh wow look how well he did, let’s give him 5 years!” There is nobody on the current staff worthy of the job, and so I don’t want to set someone up to inherit it by inertia. In fact, I would actually support Orr as an interim, only because you know he’s not getting the job.

If we just let Ewing ride it out, I think the odds of a full cleaning out is more likely (especially if we are horrible and guys transfer). That said, internally the university absolutely must make a decision before the end of the year. You cannot do a search in late March or April like last time because by then most of the good candidates are taken and you lose valuable time.

If I were DeGioia, I (or someone I trust) and would be on the phone with Pitino or his agent and see if he’s interested in becoming coach, and set the wheels in motion so you can make a quick hire. And if that doesn’t work out, then reach out to others in the same capacity.

None of this is rocket science. It’s just what normal programs do.

To me in the hypothetical where we're making a coaching change mid-season, we're assuming that our administration isn't brainless, so worrying that they will consider keeping Nickelberry as a permanent successor is not a concern

It doesn't REALLY matter to me if Ewing stays out the season IF the plug is pulled the day after the season ends. As mentioned it is a lost season regardless. There are some who might feel it's bad form/disrespectful to be out there talking to the agents of the Pitinos and the Macks of the world while Patrick is still ostensibly the coach, and that worry goes away if we are playing under Interim Coach Nickelberry instead, or if Patrick comes out at some point and announces that he is retiring/stepping down at the end of the season.

The key though is, WHO is making the decision on the next coach? If we reach March 8th (1st day of BET/last day of our season) and that question has been adequately answered and all the relevant decision makers are on the same page that this is the last year for PE, that's pretty much just as good as if we let PE go mid-season.

But I'm less worried that they're going to say "Let's promote Coach Nick to the permanent job!" and more worried that they're going to say "We'll make a decision on Coach Ewing's future at the end of the season", and then it takes a few weeks to work out the details of Ewing's exit and we end up screwing ourselves by waiting too long. I guess come to think of it, the biggest concerns right now (in ascending order) are:


3. They make widespread changes to the basketball leadership (the "tear down"), but it takes too long and we miss out on good potential coaching candidates and impact players in the portal

2. They make a change at head coach but let Ronny stay in position and basically make the hire (and he hires somebody in The Family)

1. They do not have the courage to make any changes at all

[hoyasaxa2003]

I was looking around for an old quote about Georgetown's goal being to be competitive for the NCAA's (which I thought was an athletic director quote, but I never found it). But, instead I found this gem, from 2004, which puts into perspective that maybe the problem goes beyond Ronny:

"Something clearly changed for DeGioia, whose history at Georgetown is nearly as long as Esherick’s. DeGioia watched Esherick play as a student, graduating one year behind the lanky forward, and both men have spent nearly all of their adult lives at Georgetown.

“We’ve known each other all the years I’ve been here, and I recommended him for this position five and a half years ago. I’ve had a supervisory relationship to the program for about 20 years now. So it doesn’t get more difficult than this,” DeGioia said. “This is a man who has served this institution exceptionally well for 25 years and is an inextricable part of the success of Georgetown University basketball over this last quarter century.”"

thehoya.com/eshericks-departure-comes-as-a-surprise/

So, if my math is right, given the 18 years that have passed since 2004, that means DeGioia has had a "supervisory relationship" at minimum to the program for almost 40 years? And frankly, the fact that he's been around so long, and KNOWS how much better things should be makes it shameful that he's allowed this on his watch (including the stupid/negligent/reckless extension).

[bigskyhoya]

Dec 6, 2022 15:07:27 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Dec 6, 2022 13:03:36 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

While I understand the desire for a mid season change (and it certainly wouldn’t upset me), I really don’t think that’s the best thing for the program, unless there’s a player revolt or something that requires it.

In my mind, for reasons I’ve stated before we need a total tear down to have any real change, including Ronny and his buddies. The odds this would happen mid-season are almost zero. It just isn’t realistic. Nor is someone like Pitino going to abandon his team at Iona mid-season, frankly, that would be really bad form, and as much as I would welcome him with open arms to Georgetown, expecting him to do that mid season is also bad form.

Next, making a change automatically means Nickelberry or Baldwin slot in as interim coach (though I suppose Orr could fill that role too, but unlikely). And then the danger becomes that they marginally improve and the administration says “oh wow look how well he did, let’s give him 5 years!” There is nobody on the current staff worthy of the job, and so I don’t want to set someone up to inherit it by inertia. In fact, I would actually support Orr as an interim, only because you know he’s not getting the job.

If we just let Ewing ride it out, I think the odds of a full cleaning out is more likely (especially if we are horrible and guys transfer). That said, internally the university absolutely must make a decision before the end of the year. You cannot do a search in late March or April like last time because by then most of the good candidates are taken and you lose valuable time.

If I were DeGioia, I (or someone I trust) and would be on the phone with Pitino or his agent and see if he’s interested in becoming coach, and set the wheels in motion so you can make a quick hire. And if that doesn’t work out, then reach out to others in the same capacity.

None of this is rocket science. It’s just what normal programs do.

To me in the hypothetical where we're making a coaching change mid-season, we're assuming that our administration isn't brainless, so worrying that they will consider keeping Nickelberry as a permanent successor is not a concern

It doesn't REALLY matter to me if Ewing stays out the season IF the plug is pulled the day after the season ends. As mentioned it is a lost season regardless. There are some who might feel it's bad form/disrespectful to be out there talking to the agents of the Pitinos and the Macks of the world while Patrick is still ostensibly the coach, and that worry goes away if we are playing under Interim Coach Nickelberry instead, or if Patrick comes out at some point and announces that he is retiring/stepping down at the end of the season.

The key though is, WHO is making the decision on the next coach? If we reach March 8th (1st day of BET/last day of our season) and that question has been adequately answered and all the relevant decision makers are on the same page that this is the last year for PE, that's pretty much just as good as if we let PE go mid-season.

But I'm less worried that they're going to say "Let's promote Coach Nick to the permanent job!" and more worried that they're going to say "We'll make a decision on Coach Ewing's future at the end of the season", and then it takes a few weeks to work out the details of Ewing's exit and we end up screwing ourselves by waiting too long. I guess come to think of it, the biggest concerns right now (in ascending order) are:


3. They make widespread changes to the basketball leadership (the "tear down"), but it takes too long and we miss out on good potential coaching candidates and impact players in the portal

2. They make a change at head coach but let Ronny stay in position and basically make the hire (and he hires somebody in The Family)

1. They do not have the courage to make any changes at all

I agree about the timing, if we had a crystal ball and knew they plan to make the change after the season. But we don't, so the longer they stay with this Coach the more anxious we will be that they plan to keep him.

[smokeyjack]

Dec 6, 2022 12:07:15 GMT -5 Elvado said:

It will never happen on Jack’s watch….

And I do hope I am wrong here.

I'm sorry, I think you just used the phrase "Jack's watch." It's pretty clear that Jack hasn't been watching this slop for some time or a change would have been made already.

And I am floored that there are posters (or a poster) who defends the current regime. Their performance is indefensible on absolutely every level and by every conceivable metric.

[hoyaroc]

Dec 6, 2022 13:41:45 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Dec 6, 2022 13:19:53 GMT -5 1427hoya said:

I see the concerns over firing Ewing midseason. This season is obviously a lost cause.

The big step they could do now is fire Ronny - effective immediately. That would send a signal that the University considers the state of the program to be unacceptable. We’d get the sense changes are coming. It would also help discussions you’d have with a Pitino(or agents) that the deck is clear for when they do take the job

^This times 1000. It's by far the best way to go and even allows Ewing to have the full conference season to see if he can pull a rabbit out of his hat.

Having Ronny around does nothing positive for the program at this point. Unless he's got blackmail material on the university or its leadership, this is an absolute no-brainer.

”Unless he’s got blackmail material on the university or it’s leadership.” This board (Hoya Talk) is the place you make up whatever conspiracy theory you think is going to make sense. 😂

[Elvado]

Dec 6, 2022 15:33:38 GMT -5 hoyaroc said:

Dec 6, 2022 13:41:45 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

^This times 1000. It's by far the best way to go and even allows Ewing to have the full conference season to see if he can pull a rabbit out of his hat.

Having Ronny around does nothing positive for the program at this point. Unless he's got blackmail material on the university or its leadership, this is an absolute no-brainer.

”Unless he’s got blackmail material on the university or it’s leadership.” This board (Hoya Talk) is the place you make up whatever conspiracy theory you think is going to make sense. 😂

Most conspiracy theories make little sense.

What makes even less sense is that Ronnie Thompson, who stole a recruit on his way to Arkansas and who crapped the bed at Ball State and left under an ethical cloud (to be generous), not only has a job at Georgetown but has been permitted say on bringing in other under qualified losers —Howze in particular .

[hoyaguy]

I think it makes sense that if Ewing stays the whole season and it’s another disaster then they are more likely to clean the entire house. Although firing Ronny now would definitely make it easier to talk to potential coaches. Ideally fire Ewing the day after we exit from the BET and already have spoken to pitino or whoever well before that and make it all official the second after Iona’s season is over at their conference tournament or when they exit March madness

[hoyaboya]

Dec 6, 2022 15:33:38 GMT -5 hoyaroc said:

Dec 6, 2022 13:41:45 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

^This times 1000. It's by far the best way to go and even allows Ewing to have the full conference season to see if he can pull a rabbit out of his hat.

Having Ronny around does nothing positive for the program at this point. Unless he's got blackmail material on the university or its leadership, this is an absolute no-brainer.

”Unless he’s got blackmail material on the university or it’s leadership.” This board (Hoya Talk) is the place you make up whatever conspiracy theory you think is going to make sense. 😂

Besides blackmail on the university or its leadership, what justification could there possibly be to keep Ronny employed?