iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,399
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Post by iowa80 on Nov 11, 2022 14:42:06 GMT -5
Pat may have some deficiencies, but I am not going to go along with him being called a liar. He unequivocally stated in the presser that a foul was called for and he did so convincingly. The idea that it was not “communicated well” is supposition, since it should have been the first question one the mind of the players. I get that nobody wants to call him a liar, the proof is in the pudding in how ALL the players acted (compared to the coach's comment afterward) - as well as 5 years of observing Ewing's throwing his players under the boss and tons of players leaving his program. Have any of his players been quoted saying Ewing's a good guy? Fine, you’re calling him a liar. A direct answer to a press question has zero to do with players leaving and nothing to do with him “throwing players under the bus” in the absence of a yes or no question. I don’t intend this to be personal, but it seems to be a fact.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 11, 2022 14:57:50 GMT -5
No. aggypryd is making excuses for why we didn't win by as much as we should have. Coppin State is not a good team, and any effort to say otherwise is either a grossly incorrect assessment of Coppin State or (more likely) an attempt to try to carry water for the program and the coaching staff to excuse what everyone else sees as an underwhelming performance. I have now acknowledged multiple times that we won and that a win is better than a loss. I am glad we won (and truly think we are easily way better than Coppin State), but it's troubling that we had to go to OT to do it. Hopefully we will shake off whatever first game jitters we had, and play better going forward, but the notion that we somehow should not even consider any aspect of the game other than the final score makes no sense to me. I want us to be good this year. I think we will be better than last year. But barely skating by Coppin State is not the way you want to start a season. It's not only about the W, which we thaknfully did get. So give us a number for the Green Bay game for which you will stop whining and crying. 1 pt win? 5 pr win 10 20 25 What is the margin of victory for which you will actually celebrate the win? Its not about how much they win by, it's about how well the team executes/plays.. They were terrible defensively on Tuesday against a team that isn't & more than likely won't be any good this season... Even if they win by 20 but still play lackluster defense I will be complaining about it because I know that type of defense won't work in BE play
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,351
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Post by calhoya on Nov 11, 2022 15:07:09 GMT -5
This isn't really useful as no one on this site is going to resolve what was or was not told to the players. The key is if and when the situation arises again neither coach, nor player, will have an excuse for not knowing what to do.
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Nov 11, 2022 15:18:10 GMT -5
That you think last year's bigger problem was offense, and not defense, tells everyone else on HoyaTalk what we need to know about this analysis. I do, however, thank you for noting that you are an "actual fan," and will note that I too, am an "actual fan." Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense You need to get a grip and climb down off your high horse sir. Sorry, Mr. “Real Fan”
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 11, 2022 15:47:30 GMT -5
Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense You need to get a grip and climb down off your high horse sir. Sorry, Mr. “Real Fan” Um, no
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 11, 2022 15:54:13 GMT -5
That you think last year's bigger problem was offense, and not defense, tells everyone else on HoyaTalk what we need to know about this analysis. I do, however, thank you for noting that you are an "actual fan," and will note that I too, am an "actual fan." Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense Last year, the offense scored 1.049 PPP which ranked 140th and the defense gave up 1.054 PPP which ranked 228th. They were both bad but the defense was much worse. In conference games only, the offense scored .967 PPP and the defense gave up 1.143 PP - both unbelievably atrocious but offense was close to Creighton (.977 PPP 9th and Butler .955 11th) while the defense was not even remotely close to the next team (Butler 1.062).
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,091
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 11, 2022 16:11:37 GMT -5
I get that nobody wants to call him a liar, the proof is in the pudding in how ALL the players acted (compared to the coach's comment afterward) - as well as 5 years of observing Ewing's throwing his players under the boss and tons of players leaving his program. Have any of his players been quoted saying Ewing's a good guy? Fine, you’re calling him a liar. A direct answer to a press question has zero to do with players leaving and nothing to do with him “throwing players under the bus” in the absence of a yes or no question. I don’t intend this to be personal, but it seems to be a fact. Nothing useful happens with namecalling. Challenging anyone's integrity or honesty doesn't address the issue at hand, which is communication among a team and its coaches. Lots of things are happening at crunch time in a team huddle. If PE said it, I'm taking him at his word. However, it didn't seem to translate into action. I hope he says "Note to self - get very clear with essential plays". It was going to be a defensive play, so it could be that he expected defensive Coach Nick to handle it. Again, I hope someone is saying "Gotta know who is saying what to whom and verify that it is understood". We as fans and posters here can't let mere appearances and partial info lead us to make inaccurate or unfair conclusions. What's logical and what would seem to make sense isn't always what's fact. I was working off what I saw and heard on the replay, had a question, and put it out there to you all. Looking forward to tomorrow -- again, looking to the coaches to see what tweaks and adjustments they worked on and how well the players put a game plan into action. Let's go -- hoya saxa!!!!
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hoya73
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,222
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Post by hoya73 on Nov 11, 2022 17:10:04 GMT -5
Regarding the foul/not foul. the scenario one poster gave applies to fouling to stop the clock. With a lead, you don't foul asap, but a maybe the 6 second mark.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,657
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Post by seaweed on Nov 11, 2022 18:48:37 GMT -5
I have one last comment & then I'm leaving it alone. In the post-game presser, Coach Ewing was asked why we didn't foul after B Murray missed his second FT. PE said they were supposed to foul. O.K., but if that's true, it was not communicated to the team very well. Look at the replay of the final minute. When CSU rebounds, every Hoya player heads back up court to play D. If it was clear that we definitely want to foul their player -- and give them a potential 2 points, still one short of a tie -- then why weren't defenders running at whoever had the ball to foul them? No one was frantically yelling or pointing to remind them, at least as far as I can see and hear in the replay. Check it out. It's a total gimme call and decision -- of course you want to foul the opponent in that situation -- but it didn't get communicated well or the players failed to follow the plan. O.K., so NOW we gotta stop beatin' this poor horse! We're all correct -- just the first game, all new roster playing for the first time together, inconsistent play, etc. etc. O.K., we got it. The only thing that will help at this point is more games, which will either refute or support our perceptions about this team. I think we would be smart if we hold off on our apocalyptic, absolute comments until after the Northwestern game. That will be 3 games under our belts, one against UWGB, a weak team we should beat handily and then Northwestern, a more formidable team that is the product of a struggling program right now (hmmmm, familiar). The jury will still be out, but we will have more to work with. It may also stop us from turning on each other in our idle moments. Let's go -- Hoya Saxa! Odds are he didn’t actually tell them to foul and was doing his usual blame the players routine to cover for his mistake. Admins - why do we have to put up with this stuff here? Slanderous comments go way beyond the scope of no denigrating post rule, but you call me and other fans out for calling this yutz a hater? Come on, stand up for the program and those who support our players and team leadership. Blatantly saying coach is a liar is way beyond the pale.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,813
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Post by hoyazeke on Nov 11, 2022 18:50:57 GMT -5
Spot on no one has ever criticized Ewing on this board... hasn't happened...I mean I certainly didn't see hundreds of critical remarks (including myself) during the game thread real time... Certainly didn't see 99% of this board (including myself) after last season begging for his dismissal... Thankfully this board has you The Champion of Georgetown Truth...the rest of us simply cannot see beyond the end of our noses and thus we have you to gently put us back in our place...thank you I didn’t say that nobody is critical. I’m just pointing out that, for some, criticism of Ewing is not happening and, as a result, the bar is on the floor. Unfortunately, it seems that some of those people are also key decision makers at Georgetown. And some use every character typed on criticizing Ewing. I literally haven't seen 1 post from you with 1 positive thing in it. Never🤷🏾♂️
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,813
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Post by hoyazeke on Nov 11, 2022 19:03:44 GMT -5
I think I write about defense as much as anybody on this board. I was going to sit this thread out but I think this post highlights a lot of the misconceptions a lot of people on this board quote with defense so would like to address. Will try and highlight some specific points you made: - Press / Turnovers: Highlighting raw number of turnovers misses the point of the number of possessions played. The game against Coppin had 87 possessions, we forced turnovers on 19.5%. That's slightly better than last year (18%) but considering the amount we pressed, it's not a great number. Some comparisons from last year: LSU 25%, VCU 25%, St Johns (who presses all game): 21%
- People consistently focus on the one or two extra turnovers caused by a press and completely ignore what happens when it's broken. It mostly got shredded and led to wide open opportunities on the back end. Pressing is a trade off of what happens after they break it, and it was a bad trade against Coppin
- 3 point luck: I'm just not sure how many years we can watch teams take more 3s us against us than any other opponent and bemoan the bad luck that they go in. Coppin went 13-38 from 3, that's only 34% nothing crazy. It's the fact that they were able to take so many 3s is the problem, and has been the problem of every Ewing defense. Teams want to shoot 3s in the modern game, and the fact that we let them highlights we're not taking away anything from the opponent. They get what they want
- We dont know how good of a team Coppin is actually going to be on offense, but the fact they already had played another opponent makes for an easy comparison. As I said in the game summary, Charlotte held Coppin to .85 points per possession. Literally the next night they score 1.01 vs. us. Is our defense being that much worse than Charlotte an ok outcome?
Now I 100% agree with you that using a one game sample makes no sense. But I also don't know how you can watch the game against a mid level MEAC team, give up 1 point per possession and not think the defense was the problem. Is it fixable? Sure, why not. Did we suffer from the exact same issues we have the last few years? Yes, and that's what's most concerning given the coaching staff and player turnover.
I don't know if it has already been said but Georgetown had 4 starters play 40+mins and Bristol played 29mins. This has to be factored into your analysis. I haven't read the Heath thread yet but having him to really spell Primo changes the outcome of the Coppin State game. For comparison Charlotte had 1 player play over 30mins🤷🏾♂️
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 11, 2022 20:05:18 GMT -5
Odds are he didn’t actually tell them to foul and was doing his usual blame the players routine to cover for his mistake. Admins - why do we have to put up with this stuff here? Slanderous comments go way beyond the scope of no denigrating post rule, but you call me and other fans out for calling this yutz a hater? Come on, stand up for the program and those who support our players and team leadership. Blatantly saying coach is a liar is way beyond the pale. Given the indisputable fact that he’s a horrible and incompetent coach, the observation made by a few that the players on teh court made zero attempt to foul anyone, and his tendency to blame the players for anything that goes wrong, I don’t see how the scenario I suggested is anything but the most likely course of events.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 11, 2022 20:38:57 GMT -5
I think I write about defense as much as anybody on this board. I was going to sit this thread out but I think this post highlights a lot of the misconceptions a lot of people on this board quote with defense so would like to address. Will try and highlight some specific points you made: - Press / Turnovers: Highlighting raw number of turnovers misses the point of the number of possessions played. The game against Coppin had 87 possessions, we forced turnovers on 19.5%. That's slightly better than last year (18%) but considering the amount we pressed, it's not a great number. Some comparisons from last year: LSU 25%, VCU 25%, St Johns (who presses all game): 21%
- People consistently focus on the one or two extra turnovers caused by a press and completely ignore what happens when it's broken. It mostly got shredded and led to wide open opportunities on the back end. Pressing is a trade off of what happens after they break it, and it was a bad trade against Coppin
- 3 point luck: I'm just not sure how many years we can watch teams take more 3s us against us than any other opponent and bemoan the bad luck that they go in. Coppin went 13-38 from 3, that's only 34% nothing crazy. It's the fact that they were able to take so many 3s is the problem, and has been the problem of every Ewing defense. Teams want to shoot 3s in the modern game, and the fact that we let them highlights we're not taking away anything from the opponent. They get what they want
- We dont know how good of a team Coppin is actually going to be on offense, but the fact they already had played another opponent makes for an easy comparison. As I said in the game summary, Charlotte held Coppin to .85 points per possession. Literally the next night they score 1.01 vs. us. Is our defense being that much worse than Charlotte an ok outcome?
Now I 100% agree with you that using a one game sample makes no sense. But I also don't know how you can watch the game against a mid level MEAC team, give up 1 point per possession and not think the defense was the problem. Is it fixable? Sure, why not. Did we suffer from the exact same issues we have the last few years? Yes, and that's what's most concerning given the coaching staff and player turnover.
I don't know if it has already been said but Georgetown had 4 starters play 40+mins and Bristol played 29mins. This has to be factored into your analysis. I haven't read the Heath thread yet but having him to really spell Primo changes the outcome of the Coppin State game. For comparison Charlotte had 1 player play over 30mins🤷🏾♂️ So in your opinion not playing Riley & Anglin more hurt Gtown's defense?
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,813
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Post by hoyazeke on Nov 11, 2022 23:13:19 GMT -5
I don't know if it has already been said but Georgetown had 4 starters play 40+mins and Bristol played 29mins. This has to be factored into your analysis. I haven't read the Heath thread yet but having him to really spell Primo changes the outcome of the Coppin State game. For comparison Charlotte had 1 player play over 30mins🤷🏾♂️ So in your opinion not playing Riley & Anglin more hurt Gtown's defense? I don't know if not playing Riley, Anglin and Bass hurt the D but I do believe not having a true backup PG did. I'm truly hoping that Ewing forces more PT on Anglin and Riley in the next few games if we don't have Heath. It's really difficult to play sound D when you are required to do so much offensively over 30+mins.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
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Post by rhw485 on Nov 12, 2022 9:21:25 GMT -5
I think I write about defense as much as anybody on this board. I was going to sit this thread out but I think this post highlights a lot of the misconceptions a lot of people on this board quote with defense so would like to address. Will try and highlight some specific points you made: - Press / Turnovers: Highlighting raw number of turnovers misses the point of the number of possessions played. The game against Coppin had 87 possessions, we forced turnovers on 19.5%. That's slightly better than last year (18%) but considering the amount we pressed, it's not a great number. Some comparisons from last year: LSU 25%, VCU 25%, St Johns (who presses all game): 21%
- People consistently focus on the one or two extra turnovers caused by a press and completely ignore what happens when it's broken. It mostly got shredded and led to wide open opportunities on the back end. Pressing is a trade off of what happens after they break it, and it was a bad trade against Coppin
- 3 point luck: I'm just not sure how many years we can watch teams take more 3s us against us than any other opponent and bemoan the bad luck that they go in. Coppin went 13-38 from 3, that's only 34% nothing crazy. It's the fact that they were able to take so many 3s is the problem, and has been the problem of every Ewing defense. Teams want to shoot 3s in the modern game, and the fact that we let them highlights we're not taking away anything from the opponent. They get what they want
- We dont know how good of a team Coppin is actually going to be on offense, but the fact they already had played another opponent makes for an easy comparison. As I said in the game summary, Charlotte held Coppin to .85 points per possession. Literally the next night they score 1.01 vs. us. Is our defense being that much worse than Charlotte an ok outcome?
Now I 100% agree with you that using a one game sample makes no sense. But I also don't know how you can watch the game against a mid level MEAC team, give up 1 point per possession and not think the defense was the problem. Is it fixable? Sure, why not. Did we suffer from the exact same issues we have the last few years? Yes, and that's what's most concerning given the coaching staff and player turnover.
I don't know if it has already been said but Georgetown had 4 starters play 40+mins and Bristol played 29mins. This has to be factored into your analysis. I haven't read the Heath thread yet but having him to really spell Primo changes the outcome of the Coppin State game. For comparison Charlotte had 1 player play over 30mins🤷🏾♂️ Yea I mentioned that in my commentary in the game thread and this was a response into more specific points made by the original poster. That being said, if you’re going to play 6 guys, maybe…don’t press full court? Or stop when you realize the game is going to be tight and you’re shortening the rotation so the guys can give the necessary effort on defense. I consider myself a moderate on this board, I don’t bash Ewing at every available opportunity. It’s ok to say the defense was bad on Tuesday without trying to come up with every caveat to couch it. I hope the fox sports app comes through today and we can all watch a better defensive performance
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Post by JohnnyJones on Nov 12, 2022 18:21:04 GMT -5
I don't know if it has already been said but Georgetown had 4 starters play 40+mins and Bristol played 29mins. This has to be factored into your analysis. I haven't read the Heath thread yet but having him to really spell Primo changes the outcome of the Coppin State game. For comparison Charlotte had 1 player play over 30mins🤷🏾♂️ Yea I mentioned that in my commentary in the game thread and this was a response into more specific points made by the original poster. That being said, if you’re going to play 6 guys, maybe…don’t press full court? Or stop when you realize the game is going to be tight and you’re shortening the rotation so the guys can give the necessary effort on defense. I consider myself a moderate on this board, I don’t bash Ewing at every available opportunity. It’s ok to say the defense was bad on Tuesday without trying to come up with every caveat to couch it. I hope the fox sports app comes through today and we can all watch a better defensive performance rhw - please post more. A lot more.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,091
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 13, 2022 10:34:03 GMT -5
That you think last year's bigger problem was offense, and not defense, tells everyone else on HoyaTalk what we need to know about this analysis. I do, however, thank you for noting that you are an "actual fan," and will note that I too, am an "actual fan." Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense I'm not a huge fan of snark here in these posts, and I don't always agree with miracles87, but "Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming" is pretty brilliant and is still making me chuckle 3 days later.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 12, 2022 18:39:57 GMT -5
Props to Nolan here’s a great look at bad defense on Murray’s part but also notice how neither Wahab or Spears step in to stop the ball because they’re so concerned with staying with their own man…
It’s just a poor strategy
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,261
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 12, 2022 19:45:20 GMT -5
Props to Nolan here’s a great look at bad defense on Murray’s part but also notice how neither Wahab or Spears step in to stop the ball because they’re so concerned with staying with their own man… It’s just a poor strategy Murray, who is overrated as a defender, had 4 fouls at that point, so you can kind of understand the soft defense by him. But what is Heath doing?
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 12, 2022 20:05:20 GMT -5
Props to Nolan here’s a great look at bad defense on Murray’s part but also notice how neither Wahab or Spears step in to stop the ball because they’re so concerned with staying with their own man… It’s just a poor strategy Murray, who is overrated as a defender, had 4 fouls at that point, so you can kind of understand the soft defense by him. But what is Heath doing? Can’t go under the screen and still get beat to hoop though
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