hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 11, 2022 11:47:26 GMT -5
Coppin has a history of going to larger programs' campuses and performing well, and winning some of those games. The last time Coppin State beat a major conference team was Oregon State in 2014. They also won at Loyola Chicago in 2020. Going back to 2002, they have never beaten a team inside the KenPom top 100. And, out of 115 games against top 100 teams, they have only had 10 that finished at 10 points or less.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Nov 11, 2022 11:48:35 GMT -5
I'm amazed that a thread entitled, "Defensive strategy," has reached a third page on HoyaTalk.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 11, 2022 12:52:00 GMT -5
No one is stating the obvious: Coppin isn't a bad team. The Hoyas struggled in their first game against a team that was hitting their shots. Some of those shots were well behind the three point line. A lot of those shots were in transition. Still some came on 'penetration and dish'. But Coppin executed their game-plan well. These are players that play against each other all the time, so Coppin had no reason to be intimidated by the name on the front of the jersey. Coppin has a history of going to larger programs' campuses and performing well, and winning some of those games. Most HBCU's are going to have low rankings becaus3/4ths of the conference just isn't very good. But those top two or three teams, they're usually pretty decent. Not top-tier good, but they have pretty decent ball clubs. The fact that the Hoyas struggled with Coppin is not surprising because I attended a MEAC school. And while they had Fang Mitchell, there were many big schools that questioned why they scheduled them. Maybe the Hoyas are trash, maybe Ewing is trash. Or maybe this Hoyas team, filled with new players, struggled with a solid ball club that was knocking down shots. I'd like to see this team with a few more games under its belt and playing at full strength before I pass judgement. Coppin State is not good. They lost to a not-great (but not horrible) Charlotte team by 23 points on Monday. Your assertion that Coppin State goes to larger programs' campuses and win some games is a bit of a stretch. They had one year, 2020, when they won at James Madison, a terrible team ranked at 311, East Carolina (ranked 217) and Loyola Chicago (actulaly a good win). Other than 2020, they did not win any away games at all from 2015-2019, or in 2021 or 2022. Every time Georgetown loses to an opponent (or in this case, almost loses), people always make excuses about how the team really isn't that bad! And yet, most of the time, that is not borne out by reality.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 11, 2022 12:57:35 GMT -5
It is true, botsky, I do enjoy watching basketball. Makes one wonder what you are doing here, I guess you like “internet” or something. And, of course I had fun rooting for even a troubled team like last year’s, I am an actual fan, not whatever you are. It is because of my love of ball and the Hoyas that I am able to understand that last year’s team was much more offensively challenged than defensively. It is amazing what wonders one’s opponents can create from three when one’s opponents learn that you simply cannot score the basketball. Really helps with the follow through on the jump shot. As far as my critical eye for fundamentals, well, it does seem to me that time might be better spent evaluating the new players skills and how they are meshing is a more useful expenditure of one’s time here, but bot gonna bot, right? That you think last year's bigger problem was offense, and not defense, tells everyone else on HoyaTalk what we need to know about this analysis. I do, however, thank you for noting that you are an "actual fan," and will note that I too, am an "actual fan."
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 11, 2022 13:02:56 GMT -5
No one is stating the obvious: Coppin isn't a bad team. The Hoyas struggled in their first game against a team that was hitting their shots. Some of those shots were well behind the three point line. A lot of those shots were in transition. Still some came on 'penetration and dish'. But Coppin executed their game-plan well. These are players that play against each other all the time, so Coppin had no reason to be intimidated by the name on the front of the jersey. Coppin has a history of going to larger programs' campuses and performing well, and winning some of those games. Most HBCU's are going to have low rankings becaus3/4ths of the conference just isn't very good. But those top two or three teams, they're usually pretty decent. Not top-tier good, but they have pretty decent ball clubs. The fact that the Hoyas struggled with Coppin is not surprising because I attended a MEAC school. And while they had Fang Mitchell, there were many big schools that questioned why they scheduled them. Maybe the Hoyas are trash, maybe Ewing is trash. Or maybe this Hoyas team, filled with new players, struggled with a solid ball club that was knocking down shots. I'd like to see this team with a few more games under its belt and playing at full strength before I pass judgement. Coppin State is not good. They lost to a not-great (but not horrible) Charlotte team by 23 points on Monday. Your assertion that Coppin State goes to larger programs' campuses and win some games is a bit of a stretch. They had one year, 2020, when they won at James Madison, a terrible team ranked at 311, East Carolina (ranked 217) and Loyola Chicago (actulaly a good win). Other than 2020, they did not win any away games at all from 2015-2019, or in 2021 or 2022. Every time Georgetown loses to an opponent (or in this case, almost loses), people always make excuses about how the team really isn't that bad! And yet, most of the time, that is not borne out by reality. We Actually won. You are making excuses for why we didn’t lose.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,091
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 11, 2022 13:24:50 GMT -5
I have one last comment & then I'm leaving it alone. In the post-game presser, Coach Ewing was asked why we didn't foul after B Murray missed his second FT. PE said they were supposed to foul. O.K., but if that's true, it was not communicated to the team very well. Look at the replay of the final minute. When CSU rebounds, every Hoya player heads back up court to play D. If it was clear that we definitely want to foul their player -- and give them a potential 2 points, still one short of a tie -- then why weren't defenders running at whoever had the ball to foul them? No one was frantically yelling or pointing to remind them, at least as far as I can see and hear in the replay. Check it out. It's a total gimme call and decision -- of course you want to foul the opponent in that situation -- but it didn't get communicated well or the players failed to follow the plan.
O.K., so NOW we gotta stop beatin' this poor horse! We're all correct -- just the first game, all new roster playing for the first time together, inconsistent play, etc. etc. O.K., we got it. The only thing that will help at this point is more games, which will either refute or support our perceptions about this team. I think we would be smart if we hold off on our apocalyptic, absolute comments until after the Northwestern game. That will be 3 games under our belts, one against UWGB, a weak team we should beat handily and then Northwestern, a more formidable team that is the product of a struggling program right now (hmmmm, familiar). The jury will still be out, but we will have more to work with. It may also stop us from turning on each other in our idle moments.
Let's go -- Hoya Saxa!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 11, 2022 13:25:59 GMT -5
Coppin State is not good. They lost to a not-great (but not horrible) Charlotte team by 23 points on Monday. Your assertion that Coppin State goes to larger programs' campuses and win some games is a bit of a stretch. They had one year, 2020, when they won at James Madison, a terrible team ranked at 311, East Carolina (ranked 217) and Loyola Chicago (actulaly a good win). Other than 2020, they did not win any away games at all from 2015-2019, or in 2021 or 2022. Every time Georgetown loses to an opponent (or in this case, almost loses), people always make excuses about how the team really isn't that bad! And yet, most of the time, that is not borne out by reality. We Actually won. You are making excuses for why we didn’t lose. No. aggypryd is making excuses for why we didn't win by as much as we should have. Coppin State is not a good team, and any effort to say otherwise is either a grossly incorrect assessment of Coppin State or (more likely) an attempt to try to carry water for the program and the coaching staff to excuse what everyone else sees as an underwhelming performance. I have now acknowledged multiple times that we won and that a win is better than a loss. I am glad we won (and truly think we are easily way better than Coppin State), but it's troubling that we had to go to OT to do it. Hopefully we will shake off whatever first game jitters we had, and play better going forward, but the notion that we somehow should not even consider any aspect of the game other than the final score makes no sense to me. I want us to be good this year. I think we will be better than last year. But barely skating by Coppin State is not the way you want to start a season. It's not only about the W, which we thaknfully did get.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 11, 2022 13:39:52 GMT -5
It is true, botsky, I do enjoy watching basketball. Makes one wonder what you are doing here, I guess you like “internet” or something. And, of course I had fun rooting for even a troubled team like last year’s, I am an actual fan, not whatever you are. It is because of my love of ball and the Hoyas that I am able to understand that last year’s team was much more offensively challenged than defensively. It is amazing what wonders one’s opponents can create from three when one’s opponents learn that you simply cannot score the basketball. Really helps with the follow through on the jump shot. As far as my critical eye for fundamentals, well, it does seem to me that time might be better spent evaluating the new players skills and how they are meshing is a more useful expenditure of one’s time here, but bot gonna bot, right? That you think last year's bigger problem was offense, and not defense, tells everyone else on HoyaTalk what we need to know about this analysis. I do, however, thank you for noting that you are an "actual fan," and will note that I too, am an "actual fan." Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 11, 2022 13:46:43 GMT -5
We Actually won. You are making excuses for why we didn’t lose. No. aggypryd is making excuses for why we didn't win by as much as we should have. Coppin State is not a good team, and any effort to say otherwise is either a grossly incorrect assessment of Coppin State or (more likely) an attempt to try to carry water for the program and the coaching staff to excuse what everyone else sees as an underwhelming performance. I have now acknowledged multiple times that we won and that a win is better than a loss. I am glad we won (and truly think we are easily way better than Coppin State), but it's troubling that we had to go to OT to do it. Hopefully we will shake off whatever first game jitters we had, and play better going forward, but the notion that we somehow should not even consider any aspect of the game other than the final score makes no sense to me. I want us to be good this year. I think we will be better than last year. But barely skating by Coppin State is not the way you want to start a season. It's not only about the W, which we thaknfully did get. So give us a number for the Green Bay game for which you will stop whining and crying. 1 pt win? 5 pr win 10 20 25 What is the margin of victory for which you will actually celebrate the win?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 11, 2022 13:52:05 GMT -5
No. aggypryd is making excuses for why we didn't win by as much as we should have. Coppin State is not a good team, and any effort to say otherwise is either a grossly incorrect assessment of Coppin State or (more likely) an attempt to try to carry water for the program and the coaching staff to excuse what everyone else sees as an underwhelming performance. I have now acknowledged multiple times that we won and that a win is better than a loss. I am glad we won (and truly think we are easily way better than Coppin State), but it's troubling that we had to go to OT to do it. Hopefully we will shake off whatever first game jitters we had, and play better going forward, but the notion that we somehow should not even consider any aspect of the game other than the final score makes no sense to me. I want us to be good this year. I think we will be better than last year. But barely skating by Coppin State is not the way you want to start a season. It's not only about the W, which we thaknfully did get. So give us a number for the Green Bay game for which you will stop whining and crying. 1 pt win? 5 pr win 10 20 25 What is the margin of victory for which you will actually celebrate the win? If I may… A Patrick Ewing coached team versus Green Bay? 10-20 pt difference (like my prediction over at the game thread) with the whole team (minus walkons and the typical Ewing MIA players) getting some playing time…
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 11, 2022 13:53:09 GMT -5
That you think last year's bigger problem was offense, and not defense, tells everyone else on HoyaTalk what we need to know about this analysis. I do, however, thank you for noting that you are an "actual fan," and will note that I too, am an "actual fan." Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense This kind of crap doesn't contribute to the discourse whatsoever.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 11, 2022 13:54:27 GMT -5
Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense This kind of crap doesn't contribute to the discourse whatsoever. And is a violation of the Board’s rules.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Nov 11, 2022 13:54:30 GMT -5
Lol, Mr. Groupthink Von Lemming has weighed in! Gee 03, though we all know that nothing speaks to the fall of Hoyatalk quite so succinctly as the sheer volume of the blathering nonsense you post here every forsaken day, please tell me what good offensive players we had last year. Given the fact that, of course, offense requires more skill than defense, please tell us who on last year’s team was good on offense This kind of crap doesn't contribute to the discourse whatsoever. I know, TC, only negative whiny idiocy is permitted
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 11, 2022 13:56:58 GMT -5
This kind of crap doesn't contribute to the discourse whatsoever. I know, TC, only negative whiny idiocy is permitted TCs conspiracy theories and player, coach, admin bashing permitted somehow
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 11, 2022 14:00:48 GMT -5
I have one last comment & then I'm leaving it alone. In the post-game presser, Coach Ewing was asked why we didn't foul after B Murray missed his second FT. PE said they were supposed to foul. O.K., but if that's true, it was not communicated to the team very well. Look at the replay of the final minute. When CSU rebounds, every Hoya player heads back up court to play D. If it was clear that we definitely want to foul their player -- and give them a potential 2 points, still one short of a tie -- then why weren't defenders running at whoever had the ball to foul them? No one was frantically yelling or pointing to remind them, at least as far as I can see and hear in the replay. Check it out. It's a total gimme call and decision -- of course you want to foul the opponent in that situation -- but it didn't get communicated well or the players failed to follow the plan. O.K., so NOW we gotta stop beatin' this poor horse! We're all correct -- just the first game, all new roster playing for the first time together, inconsistent play, etc. etc. O.K., we got it. The only thing that will help at this point is more games, which will either refute or support our perceptions about this team. I think we would be smart if we hold off on our apocalyptic, absolute comments until after the Northwestern game. That will be 3 games under our belts, one against UWGB, a weak team we should beat handily and then Northwestern, a more formidable team that is the product of a struggling program right now (hmmmm, familiar). The jury will still be out, but we will have more to work with. It may also stop us from turning on each other in our idle moments. Let's go -- Hoya Saxa! Odds are he didn’t actually tell them to foul and was doing his usual blame the players routine to cover for his mistake.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 11, 2022 14:04:41 GMT -5
No. aggypryd is making excuses for why we didn't win by as much as we should have. Coppin State is not a good team, and any effort to say otherwise is either a grossly incorrect assessment of Coppin State or (more likely) an attempt to try to carry water for the program and the coaching staff to excuse what everyone else sees as an underwhelming performance. I have now acknowledged multiple times that we won and that a win is better than a loss. I am glad we won (and truly think we are easily way better than Coppin State), but it's troubling that we had to go to OT to do it. Hopefully we will shake off whatever first game jitters we had, and play better going forward, but the notion that we somehow should not even consider any aspect of the game other than the final score makes no sense to me. I want us to be good this year. I think we will be better than last year. But barely skating by Coppin State is not the way you want to start a season. It's not only about the W, which we thaknfully did get. So give us a number for the Green Bay game for which you will stop whining and crying. 1 pt win? 5 pr win 10 20 25 What is the margin of victory for which you will actually celebrate the win? professorhoya, I know we often butt heads, but I know you're coming from a good place. That said, I am not "whining" about anything when I say I didn't think we played well against Coppin State. It's my assessment of one game, you don't have to like it. I am not sure why we always need sunshine and rainbows or people get upset. That said, back to the question at hand. Green Bay is way worse than even Coppin State (355 of 362 Division 1 teams, versus Coppin State which was 329 before playing us but is now 317). We should win by 20 or more. Green Bay is a tiny team relatively speaking. They are just really bad, I am sure there are better AAU teams out there. Our guys should have a field day and probably will!
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,399
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Post by iowa80 on Nov 11, 2022 14:17:56 GMT -5
I have one last comment & then I'm leaving it alone. In the post-game presser, Coach Ewing was asked why we didn't foul after B Murray missed his second FT. PE said they were supposed to foul. O.K., but if that's true, it was not communicated to the team very well. Look at the replay of the final minute. When CSU rebounds, every Hoya player heads back up court to play D. If it was clear that we definitely want to foul their player -- and give them a potential 2 points, still one short of a tie -- then why weren't defenders running at whoever had the ball to foul them? No one was frantically yelling or pointing to remind them, at least as far as I can see and hear in the replay. Check it out. It's a total gimme call and decision -- of course you want to foul the opponent in that situation -- but it didn't get communicated well or the players failed to follow the plan. O.K., so NOW we gotta stop beatin' this poor horse! We're all correct -- just the first game, all new roster playing for the first time together, inconsistent play, etc. etc. O.K., we got it. The only thing that will help at this point is more games, which will either refute or support our perceptions about this team. I think we would be smart if we hold off on our apocalyptic, absolute comments until after the Northwestern game. That will be 3 games under our belts, one against UWGB, a weak team we should beat handily and then Northwestern, a more formidable team that is the product of a struggling program right now (hmmmm, familiar). The jury will still be out, but we will have more to work with. It may also stop us from turning on each other in our idle moments. Let's go -- Hoya Saxa! Odds are he didn’t actually tell them to foul and was doing his usual blame the players routine to cover for his mistake. Pat may have some deficiencies, but I am not going to go along with him being called a liar. He unequivocally stated in the presser that a foul was called for and he did so convincingly. The idea that it was not “communicated well” is supposition, since it should have been the first question on the mind of the players.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 11, 2022 14:35:11 GMT -5
I have one last comment & then I'm leaving it alone. In the post-game presser, Coach Ewing was asked why we didn't foul after B Murray missed his second FT. PE said they were supposed to foul. O.K., but if that's true, it was not communicated to the team very well. Look at the replay of the final minute. When CSU rebounds, every Hoya player heads back up court to play D. If it was clear that we definitely want to foul their player -- and give them a potential 2 points, still one short of a tie -- then why weren't defenders running at whoever had the ball to foul them? No one was frantically yelling or pointing to remind them, at least as far as I can see and hear in the replay. Check it out. It's a total gimme call and decision -- of course you want to foul the opponent in that situation -- but it didn't get communicated well or the players failed to follow the plan. O.K., so NOW we gotta stop beatin' this poor horse! We're all correct -- just the first game, all new roster playing for the first time together, inconsistent play, etc. etc. O.K., we got it. The only thing that will help at this point is more games, which will either refute or support our perceptions about this team. I think we would be smart if we hold off on our apocalyptic, absolute comments until after the Northwestern game. That will be 3 games under our belts, one against UWGB, a weak team we should beat handily and then Northwestern, a more formidable team that is the product of a struggling program right now (hmmmm, familiar). The jury will still be out, but we will have more to work with. It may also stop us from turning on each other in our idle moments. Let's go -- Hoya Saxa! Odds are he didn’t actually tell them to foul and was doing his usual blame the players routine to cover for his mistake. I would put money on this being the case.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 11, 2022 14:37:35 GMT -5
Odds are he didn’t actually tell them to foul and was doing his usual blame the players routine to cover for his mistake. Pat may have some deficiencies, but I am not going to go along with him being called a liar. He unequivocally stated in the presser that a foul was called for and he did so convincingly. The idea that it was not “communicated well” is supposition, since it should have been the first question one the mind of the players. One of two things happened here. He told them to foul and then all five guys went on the court, completely disregarded his instructions, and made no discernible attempt whatsoever to foul. This calls into question his ability to communicate his desires and his team’s willingness to listen to him - both of which are bad. Or, because he’s a horrible coach, he did not instruct his players to foul, they did exactly what they were told to do, and it backfired. Then, since blaming the players is what he does and seems to have worked out well, when he was questioned about this decision and it dawned on him that fouling was the better move, he went ahead and blamed the players for messing up yet again. This is also bad. Based on what actually happened, how the players all acted in those last few seconds, and five plus years of Ewing passing the buck, the evidence should be on the side of Ewing messing up and trying to cover for it the way he always does.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 11, 2022 14:38:26 GMT -5
Odds are he didn’t actually tell them to foul and was doing his usual blame the players routine to cover for his mistake. Pat may have some deficiencies, but I am not going to go along with him being called a liar. He unequivocally stated in the presser that a foul was called for and he did so convincingly. The idea that it was not “communicated well” is supposition, since it should have been the first question one the mind of the players. I get that nobody wants to call him a liar, but the proof is in the pudding in how ALL the players acted (compared to the coach's comment afterward) - as well as 5 years of observing Ewing's throwing his players under the bus and tons of recruited athletes leaving his program. Have any of his players been quoted saying Ewing's a good guy?
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