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Post by augustusfinknottle on Feb 17, 2022 22:02:00 GMT -5
Matt McMahon of Murray St. got Ja Morant out of South Carolina to Murray, KY (USC had offered him). He is now 25-2 two years after Morant’s departure. He makes $500,000. Downside for us is he’s not a regional fit.
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Feb 18, 2022 7:15:48 GMT -5
Matt McMahon of Murray St. got Ja Morant out of South Carolina to Murray, KY (USC had offered him). He is now 25-2 two years after Morant’s departure. He makes $500,000. Downside for us is he’s not a regional fit. I said previously that I think the best choices would be either McMahon or Gates. Both have built or rebuilt their current schools and have at least a couple years of history.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 8:31:46 GMT -5
Probably misses the mark on a lot of counts (primarily “young”) but what about a guy like John Becker at Vermont? You’d have to be making the bet that with more resources, better conference etc. that success at a lower level would translate. They play a “modern” game, seems like he’s actually been thoughtful about assembling his staff (couple younger dudes, including an assistant who was former video coordinator with the Knicks). DC ties. Makes $300k/year. Guys like this also have to “do more with less” pretty consistently which again you’d like to think translates to filling out a roster with under the radar guys - hopefully for positions 5-12, not starting PGs.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 18, 2022 9:03:12 GMT -5
I would just say that it’s very, very difficult to fail at Murray State.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 18, 2022 10:07:16 GMT -5
I don't know all that much about him, but Bill Courtney (51) doesn't count as young but he's the assistant at Miami that has been recruiting the DMV pretty hard the past few years. Not sure that he leaves Larranaga after coaching with him at Bowling Green, George Mason, and Miami, but could be someone to look at as an assistant to a younger head coach that doesn't have DMV ties. He has head coaching experience in the Ivy League (Cornell) and assistant coaching experience in the Big East (Providence and DePaul) as well as in the DC/VA area (American, George Mason, UVA, VTech). Mike Pegues is another one of the well known ones. Assistant to Mack and currently acting HC at Louisville. DeMatha and DC guy. Dalonte Hill was historically one of the top guys, bringing Mike Beasley and a slew of others to KSU some years back, but his star has waned as DC Assault's influence did. Also had a couple of DUIs, one of which forced him to resign from Maryland. Currently at Stephen F Austin. Not sure if he still has much clout. Bino Ranson is a pretty good area recruiter, Baltimore specifically. He saw the writing on the wall for Turgeon and left Maryland last offseason to go to Depaul, and has them in the mix for Judah Mintz. Christian Webster, who is also on the VA Tech staff, is a relatively young guy who recruits the area. DC guy, and I think JTIII actually recruited him a bit when he was in high school. Played at Harvard. I believe Dwayne Anderson recruits the area for Villanova now. From Silver Spring and played for St. Johns in the WCAC before Wright recruited him (along with Dante Cunningham). Neptune actually has some guys with DC ties on staff at Fordham. His associate head coach is Keith Urgo, who recruited the area at Penn State before going to Fordham (landing guys like Josh Reaves). Before that he was with Wright at Villanova and was (maybe? not sure) the one who recruited Scottie Reynolds there. Fordham's DoBO is Nima Omidvar, who went to Maryland and then had coaching stops at Paul VI and St. Johns College HS in DC, and also worked with Team Takeover. Also had roles on staff at UMCP and GW, and is in his early 30s. If by chance Neptune becomes our guy, have to think this is somebody he'd bring along. And by the way THIS is the kind of guy you want as your DoBO--somebody who is climbing the ranks, moving and shaking and working his way up the ladder, and who has connections at several top high school programs and one of the best AAU programs. He's going to stay for a couple years, get some experience and then graduate to a full assistant role at your school or somewhere else. You DON'T want some guy who is in his mid 50s who has no connections anywhere and only has his job because he's tight with your "Chief of Staff" I'm sure there are many that I'm forgetting, but those are a few names. I agree that "DMV ties" should not be at the top of the list of requirements for a head coach--it shrinks the pool way too much, and while it'd be great it's much less important than a number of other things. That said, I think it's a must that a new coach realize how important it is to recruit this area AND build his staff accordingly. I'm not wild about a coach who, if he's coming from a totally different part of the country, also intends to bring his entire staff with him because "they're my guys." Loyalty is admirable, sure, but you have to tailor your staff to the situation. I think maybe bringing one guy with you who you depend on for strategy, planning, etc. is fine. But at least 2 of your assistant spots need to be ace recruiters, and your DoBO MUST be someone with local connections. You only get THREE people who can be on the road recruiting, other than your head coach. Those spots need to go to elite salesmen. All of the other things you may rely on assistants for--Xs and Os, opposition research, game management, skill building, etc etc. all has to come from non-recruiting roles. Whomever we get as coach, IMHO, should be on the phone with leadership of local AAU and high school programs before the ink is dry on his new contract. For all of the great things JT2 did for our program he never had patience for AAU guys and didn't like that networking game. His disciples have mostly followed in his footsteps--maybe not quite as standoffish as he was (it's almost not possible to be the way the game works today) but still not eager to work with them. And that's one of the things I hope changes in the next regime. I fully understand that SOME of the people in the AAU world are slimy, and you don't want a coach with no backbone who is kowtowing to bad actors. But the reality is that the staff of Ewing, Orr, Kirby, Waheed and Howze is not prioritizing the local power brokers at all, and they feel it. And they're not focusing their attention on the DMV, and the players feel that too. We've given out many scholarships to guys who are not difference makers on this level--if youre going to do that, give those scholarships to area kids instead. Improve relationships with those organizations, and build up network effects among young players. Symbolic gestures matter, and people can tell when youre really prioritizing the local area and when you aren't. And we clearly haven't, and then shrug and say "Man, the local kids just don't think Georgetown is the place to be anymore." It's within our power to change that, but you need a team of young energetic guys who KNOW this area and who will hustle their asses off to land players. It can be fixed with the right people in place. We've discussed this on the WCAC thread that you started on the recruiting forum a while back, and I'm just emphasizing it because I couldn't agree more. We have thirteen scholarships. Some of those thirteen guys are not going to get major minutes. Instead of flying all over the country to find guys to fill those spots with players from schools and AAU programs that probably aren't going to send us more kids, why not offer the local kids with similar skills who end up in the A-10 or CAA? Build relationships with the coaches, let the kids help recruit their HS and AAU teammates who are bigger fish. Meanwhile, save the travel (and related time and fatigue) for recruiting the four- and five-star types. Why are we getting on a plane to recruit two-star guys when we can find them in our back yard? More on topic, if we were to hire someone who is a bit older or not from the area, I'd like to see if we can pull Nolan Smith away from Duke to be one of the assistants. He has DMV ties, is relatively young, has some pro experience, and the head job at his alma mater isn't opening up in the immediate future. I know that K's coaching tree hasn't exactly lit the world on fire, but if we want to go outside the family, I wouldn't mind bringing in someone who has been a part of a program with a lot of recent success.
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on Feb 18, 2022 10:10:44 GMT -5
Who are some good up and coming assistants with strong DC ties? I know Skinn (OSU), Nolan Smith, and Jones (VT). And the Brooks guy at xavier that's director of recruiting. Anyone else of note? Mike Pegues, interim coach now at Louisville. And he's likely not returning to Louisville next year. So, he could be both a head coaching candidate or a candidate for an assistant.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 18, 2022 11:06:04 GMT -5
More on topic, if we were to hire someone who is a bit older or not from the area, I'd like to see if we can pull Nolan Smith away from Duke to be one of the assistants. He has DMV ties, is relatively young, has some pro experience, and the head job at his alma mater isn't opening up in the immediate future. I know that K's coaching tree hasn't exactly lit the world on fire, but if we want to go outside the family, I wouldn't mind bringing in someone who has been a part of a program with a lot of recent success. Smith as an associate head coach would be terrific, especially if he was paired with an older head coach and was understudying for the top job in a few years. There's a lot to like about him and I think his future is bright. But I think he may have better options... I've thought the same about Mike Jones. He's the Associate Head Coach at VA Tech. Ok, but what if we offered him the same position at Georgetown? Maybe we could give him a bit of a raise, and more importantly he can move his family/kids back to DC where they've grown up and lived their whole lives rather than being in Blacksburg. Maybe there's a scenario like the following: 1) Notre Dame has an underwhelming end to their season again (somehow fall out of the tourney or lose in the first round) 2) With fans and university leadership getting restless about lack of success in recent years, Brey decides to finish his career back in the DC area 3) Brey (Dematha guy) hires Mike Jones (Dematha guy) as his associate head coach and right-hand man, and Jones prepares to take the reigns in a few years when Brey (who turns 63 next month) retires in a few years I'm not suggesting Brey is top of my list, but we could do worse than that for sure. You know what you're getting in a guy like Brey, as compared to the English/Neptune/Gates types, and you know he'd bring us back to being at least a competent program. And he would probably recruit DC a lot better than the current staff has, especially with Jones. But unfortunately, I'm not sure that I see either Nolan Smith OR Mike Jones going for it, as both probably have their eyes on getting head coaching jobs in the next couple years, and given the state of Georgetown Basketball at the moment it's not clear that being an assistant here would get them any closer to that than would being an assistant at the ACC schools they're currently at. Also, I think George Mason's head coaching job will probably open up this off season with English moving on, and there's a decent chance that GW might open too (if not this year, probably next). I would expect both Smith and Jones, along with Tony Skinn, to get long looks for the head coaching positions at both of those schools.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 18, 2022 11:34:03 GMT -5
Nolan Smith? Yeah, because the K coaching tree has been so successful...
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 18, 2022 11:51:27 GMT -5
Nolan Smith? Yeah, because the K coaching tree has been so successful... You have to evaluate everyone individually. Nolan Smith is not Steve Wojciechowski. K's tree has been a mixed bag to be sure. We've seen time and again that hiring somebody who understudied a great coach does not always lead to success. But there's nothing inherently bad about spending years learning from a Hall of Fame coach either. You can't say "all K disciples are bad", just as anyone who assumes "all K disciples will be good" is wrong too. It's case by case. I don't think Smith is ready to be in the discussion for a head coaching role at Georgetown at this juncture, but if I was a mid major with a head coach opening, especially in the DC area where he's from, I'd definitely want to talk to him. He's got potential and is in the same mold as guys like Kim English and Kyle Neptune who've gone from high major assistants to A-10 head coaches in the last few years.
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617hoya
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Post by 617hoya on Feb 18, 2022 11:51:34 GMT -5
I would like to submit another candidate for consideration *snickers*
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BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Feb 18, 2022 11:52:56 GMT -5
I would like to submit another candidate for consideration *snickers* Good for him!
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on Feb 18, 2022 14:37:04 GMT -5
More on topic, if we were to hire someone who is a bit older or not from the area, I'd like to see if we can pull Nolan Smith away from Duke to be one of the assistants. He has DMV ties, is relatively young, has some pro experience, and the head job at his alma mater isn't opening up in the immediate future. I know that K's coaching tree hasn't exactly lit the world on fire, but if we want to go outside the family, I wouldn't mind bringing in someone who has been a part of a program with a lot of recent success. Smith as an associate head coach would be terrific, especially if he was paired with an older head coach and was understudying for the top job in a few years. There's a lot to like about him and I think his future is bright. But I think he may have better options... I've thought the same about Mike Jones. He's the Associate Head Coach at VA Tech. Ok, but what if we offered him the same position at Georgetown? Maybe we could give him a bit of a raise, and more importantly he can move his family/kids back to DC where they've grown up and lived their whole lives rather than being in Blacksburg. Maybe there's a scenario like the following: 1) Notre Dame has an underwhelming end to their season again (somehow fall out of the tourney or lose in the first round) 2) With fans and university leadership getting restless about lack of success in recent years, Brey decides to finish his career back in the DC area 3) Brey (Dematha guy) hires Mike Jones (Dematha guy) as his associate head coach and right-hand man, and Jones prepares to take the reigns in a few years when Brey (who turns 63 next month) retires in a few years I'm not suggesting Brey is top of my list, but we could do worse than that for sure. You know what you're getting in a guy like Brey, as compared to the English/Neptune/Gates types, and you know he'd bring us back to being at least a competent program. And he would probably recruit DC a lot better than the current staff has, especially with Jones. But unfortunately, I'm not sure that I see either Nolan Smith OR Mike Jones going for it, as both probably have their eyes on getting head coaching jobs in the next couple years, and given the state of Georgetown Basketball at the moment it's not clear that being an assistant here would get them any closer to that than would being an assistant at the ACC schools they're currently at. Also, I think George Mason's head coaching job will probably open up this off season with English moving on, and there's a decent chance that GW might open too (if not this year, probably next). I would expect both Smith and Jones, along with Tony Skinn, to get long looks for the head coaching positions at both of those schools. This excites me less than would skipping Brey and going straight to Mike Jones as head coach. Or, if you insist on Brey, have HIM be the Martelli like assistant.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 18, 2022 15:31:58 GMT -5
Smith as an associate head coach would be terrific, especially if he was paired with an older head coach and was understudying for the top job in a few years. There's a lot to like about him and I think his future is bright. But I think he may have better options... I've thought the same about Mike Jones. He's the Associate Head Coach at VA Tech. Ok, but what if we offered him the same position at Georgetown? Maybe we could give him a bit of a raise, and more importantly he can move his family/kids back to DC where they've grown up and lived their whole lives rather than being in Blacksburg. Maybe there's a scenario like the following: 1) Notre Dame has an underwhelming end to their season again (somehow fall out of the tourney or lose in the first round) 2) With fans and university leadership getting restless about lack of success in recent years, Brey decides to finish his career back in the DC area 3) Brey (Dematha guy) hires Mike Jones (Dematha guy) as his associate head coach and right-hand man, and Jones prepares to take the reigns in a few years when Brey (who turns 63 next month) retires in a few years I'm not suggesting Brey is top of my list, but we could do worse than that for sure. You know what you're getting in a guy like Brey, as compared to the English/Neptune/Gates types, and you know he'd bring us back to being at least a competent program. And he would probably recruit DC a lot better than the current staff has, especially with Jones. But unfortunately, I'm not sure that I see either Nolan Smith OR Mike Jones going for it, as both probably have their eyes on getting head coaching jobs in the next couple years, and given the state of Georgetown Basketball at the moment it's not clear that being an assistant here would get them any closer to that than would being an assistant at the ACC schools they're currently at. Also, I think George Mason's head coaching job will probably open up this off season with English moving on, and there's a decent chance that GW might open too (if not this year, probably next). I would expect both Smith and Jones, along with Tony Skinn, to get long looks for the head coaching positions at both of those schools. This excites me less than would skipping Brey and going straight to Mike Jones as head coach. Or, if you insist on Brey, have HIM be the Martelli like assistant. I get that 62 year old, mock turtle neck-wearing Mike Brey isn't going to be the sexy pick. But he has been coaching at the highest level for 20+ years, been to the tournament 12 times, back to back elite 8s, etc. To me he's the quintessential "high floor" choice. You know he's a competent coach and you know roughly what you'll get. He knows the area well and he's pulled some pretty good players from the DMV to Notre Dame, and might be even better at doing that to Georgetown. For a program that is in the absolute bleakest period in modern times, someone who we KNOW will bring us back to respectability has to be at least a little enticing. Jones is the opposite. High ceiling, low floor. If it turns out that he's as good of a college coach as he was a high school coach, it's brilliant. But the guy has literally one year of college experience, as an assistant at an unremarkable program under an unremarkable head coach. It's ALMOST as if we'd be hiring him straight from being the Dematha coach to being the Georgetown coach. And yes, hiring a top high school coach worked well for us once before (decades ago, in a totally different environment). But we've seen the struggles that our current coach has had in going from the NBA to college, imagine how hard it is to go from high school to college? And a few years from now when Jones' Dematha guys have all moved on, will he still be someone we look at as potentially an elite recruiter? I don't disagree that he's worth consideration, maybe an interview, but given that he has VERY little college experience and no college head coaching experience, I'd say it'd be a huge gamble for Georgetown. To me he might make sense as a head coach at GMU, GW, or American, all of which may open up in the not-too-distant future. If he proves himself there, THEN maybe you're in line for a job like Georgetown. And for what it's worth, Brey wouldn't be my choice. He doesn't "feel" like a fit, in my gut. But I think we could do worse, and could understand wanting a low risk, high floor candidate to bring us back to relevance given where we're at.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 18, 2022 16:28:54 GMT -5
Nolan Smith? Yeah, because the K coaching tree has been so successful... You have to evaluate everyone individually. Nolan Smith is not Steve Wojciechowski. K's tree has been a mixed bag to be sure. We've seen time and again that hiring somebody who understudied a great coach does not always lead to success. But there's nothing inherently bad about spending years learning from a Hall of Fame coach either. You can't say "all K disciples are bad", just as anyone who assumes "all K disciples will be good" is wrong too. It's case by case. I don't think Smith is ready to be in the discussion for a head coaching role at Georgetown at this juncture, but if I was a mid major with a head coach opening, especially in the DC area where he's from, I'd definitely want to talk to him. He's got potential and is in the same mold as guys like Kim English and Kyle Neptune who've gone from high major assistants to A-10 head coaches in the last few years. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree you evaluate individually. But Smith has been a full assistant coach for 1 year (before that he was a DOBO or something like that). So as far as I can tell, he doesn't really have a resume besides K's tutelage. And K's tutelage has not exactly been a guarantor of success.
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DonkDonk
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Post by DonkDonk on Feb 18, 2022 18:32:32 GMT -5
Treading as carefully as I can here, is it fair to assume that we should realistically be focusing the discussion on the best young Black coaches? I cannot see a universe, given Georgetown’s history, current racial climate, and DeGioia’s likely nightmare of replacing Ewing with a white coach?
I just cannot picture a press conference where degioia would be sitting with a youngish white coach unless there was a complete blessing (I.e. JT2 with Esh).
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Feb 18, 2022 19:04:24 GMT -5
If the administration wanted to go well outside the box and make a different form of history, I wonder if they'll ever give Becky Hammon a call.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 18, 2022 19:30:34 GMT -5
Treading as carefully as I can here, is it fair to assume that we should realistically be focusing the discussion on the best young Black coaches? I cannot see a universe, given Georgetown’s history, current racial climate, and DeGioia’s likely nightmare of replacing Ewing with a white coach? I just cannot picture a press conference where degioia would be sitting with a youngish white coach unless there was a complete blessing (I.e. JT2 with Esh). There are so many imaginary limitations on who we can hire (we can only hire inside the family, we can only hire a David Falk client, we can only hire someone that JT2 approves of, we can only hire a white coach that JT2 approves of etc) it is really hard to keep track.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Feb 18, 2022 20:17:05 GMT -5
Treading as carefully as I can here, is it fair to assume that we should realistically be focusing the discussion on the best young Black coaches? I cannot see a universe, given Georgetown’s history, current racial climate, and DeGioia’s likely nightmare of replacing Ewing with a white coach? I just cannot picture a press conference where degioia would be sitting with a youngish white coach unless there was a complete blessing (I.e. JT2 with Esh). I have had the same thought and fear it may be well founded. But haven’t we already proved ourselves on that score time and again? At least from the standpoint of basketball, the straits we find ourselves in at this time are too desperate to allow for such a narrow net to be cast.
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Post by LoudSoundOfREBOUND on Feb 18, 2022 20:44:12 GMT -5
This excites me less than would skipping Brey and going straight to Mike Jones as head coach. Or, if you insist on Brey, have HIM be the Martelli like assistant. I get that 62 year old, mock turtle neck-wearing Mike Brey isn't going to be the sexy pick. But he has been coaching at the highest level for 20+ years, been to the tournament 12 times, back to back elite 8s, etc. To me he's the quintessential "high floor" choice. You know he's a competent coach and you know roughly what you'll get. He knows the area well and he's pulled some pretty good players from the DMV to Notre Dame, and might be even better at doing that to Georgetown. For a program that is in the absolute bleakest period in modern times, someone who we KNOW will bring us back to respectability has to be at least a little enticing. Jones is the opposite. High ceiling, low floor. If it turns out that he's as good of a college coach as he was a high school coach, it's brilliant. But the guy has literally one year of college experience, as an assistant at an unremarkable program under an unremarkable head coach. It's ALMOST as if we'd be hiring him straight from being the Dematha coach to being the Georgetown coach. And yes, hiring a top high school coach worked well for us once before (decades ago, in a totally different environment). But we've seen the struggles that our current coach has had in going from the NBA to college, imagine how hard it is to go from high school to college? And a few years from now when Jones' Dematha guys have all moved on, will he still be someone we look at as potentially an elite recruiter? I don't disagree that he's worth consideration, maybe an interview, but given that he has VERY little college experience and no college head coaching experience, I'd say it'd be a huge gamble for Georgetown. To me he might make sense as a head coach at GMU, GW, or American, all of which may open up in the not-too-distant future. If he proves himself there, THEN maybe you're in line for a job like Georgetown. And for what it's worth, Brey wouldn't be my choice. He doesn't "feel" like a fit, in my gut. But I think we could do worse, and could understand wanting a low risk, high floor candidate to bring us back to relevance given where we're at. He could get Pegues as an asst/coach in waiting. I think Pegues played for him. No, mine was not a serious suggestion.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 18, 2022 21:18:22 GMT -5
Treading as carefully as I can here, is it fair to assume that we should realistically be focusing the discussion on the best young Black coaches? I cannot see a universe, given Georgetown’s history, current racial climate, and DeGioia’s likely nightmare of replacing Ewing with a white coach? I just cannot picture a press conference where degioia would be sitting with a youngish white coach unless there was a complete blessing (I.e. JT2 with Esh). I don’t think race or skin color should be a factor at all in hiring the next coach, if we are searching. Black, white or blue, just hire the right coach to build this thing back up to where it belongs.
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