RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 15, 2022 12:20:34 GMT -5
For those who are maybe hearing the name "Dennis Gates" for the first time, seeing that he's done well at CSU and wondering what he's about, here's a short video that tells his story a bit. It's from when he was an assistant at FSU, just before he got the Cleveland State gig:
There are no guarantees, but to me, he looks promising. He has some of the young/energetic/relatable qualities that people like about English and Neptune, but he's actually got 3 years of head coaching experience under his belt and one trip to the NCAAs (Cleveland State is currently projected to win their league again this year, which would be a second NCAA trip). He'd likely be affordable. I can see scenarios where Gates + a team of assistants who are very well connected in the DMV (Jordan Brooks for example) could be very successful.
Someone to keep an eye on for sure.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 15, 2022 12:26:42 GMT -5
Gates would be a very interesting name to watch.
Part of me can't help but to feel upset though that as we go through this next search names like Gates and English (who both very well could be great future coaches) are the ones getting us excited. 5 years ago this was a job that would have attracted already proven head coaches at the high major level, a type of destination job that would only be rivaled by a few blue blood programs. New facility, DMV recruiting grounds, ability to pay top dollar, etc.
To see where the star has fallen is certainly humbling, and it is the outcome the school risked when they handed the keys over to Ewing back in 2016. Well here we are now...
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 15, 2022 12:34:08 GMT -5
Gates is perfect. Realistic, upside and entering the prime of his coaching career - has led a program now for 3 years - which he took over at the absolute bottom and is now working on a league title in years 2 and 3.
He has recruiting chops having been at FSU and now seemingly has ties across the country.
Everything he is about fits what this program should stand for to a T. On and off the court.
And just so happens our AD - if allowed to operate as such - has the Cleveland State ties.
There’s no sure thing, but I think he is as close to an ideal match as there is.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Feb 15, 2022 12:37:02 GMT -5
I agree but quickly add that I wouldn't be so sure that some names of proven coaches aren't going to be included and interested. Even with the loss of relevancy that some talk about, HC at Gtown is a one-of-a-kind opening. One of the top jobs in the BE as rated by coaches and pundits in the BE and one that has so many plusses that would be attractive to a HC candidate, new and experienced. I wouldn't dismiss that or underestimate it. To me, that means that it is incumbent on any search team -- as well as on the AD and Administration who want this to happen well -- that it do this right. Cast the net wide, interview well, have a vision and find the best person to make it happen.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Feb 15, 2022 12:49:32 GMT -5
That being said, alexinixis made points that make me really excited about Dennis Gates.
And then I think we are jumping the gun as we still have a HC who hasn't given any indication he is going anywhere and an Administration, AD, and Board of Trustees who have not expressed anything about PE not being HC next year.
But Gates does look like a good man to do the job on many fronts, most importantly having an all-around approach to basketball, academics, life and relationships.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 15, 2022 13:55:18 GMT -5
Gates would be a very interesting name to watch. Part of me can't help but to feel upset though that as we go through this next search names like Gates and English (who both very well could be great future coaches) are the ones getting us excited. 5 years ago this was a job that would have attracted already proven head coaches at the high major level, a type of destination job that would only be rivaled by a few blue blood programs. New facility, DMV recruiting grounds, ability to pay top dollar, etc. To see where the star has fallen is certainly humbling, and it is the outcome the school risked when they handed the keys over to Ewing back in 2016. Well here we are now... I'd go back and look at the names being thrown around 5yrs ago. Not exactly overflowing with juggernaut coaching candidates... hm
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 15, 2022 14:00:04 GMT -5
Gates would be a very interesting name to watch. Part of me can't help but to feel upset though that as we go through this next search names like Gates and English (who both very well could be great future coaches) are the ones getting us excited. 5 years ago this was a job that would have attracted already proven head coaches at the high major level, a type of destination job that would only be rivaled by a few blue blood programs. New facility, DMV recruiting grounds, ability to pay top dollar, etc. To see where the star has fallen is certainly humbling, and it is the outcome the school risked when they handed the keys over to Ewing back in 2016. Well here we are now... I'd go back and look at the names being thrown around 5yrs ago. Not exactly overflowing with juggernaut coaching candidates... hm Smart, Mack, Hurley, Cooley, Brey, Miller, Amaker?
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 15, 2022 14:05:43 GMT -5
I'd go back and look at the names being thrown around 5yrs ago. Not exactly overflowing with juggernaut coaching candidates... hm Smart, Mack, Hurley, Cooley, Brey, Miller, Amaker? Got it. And this year we are looking at Wright, Few, Pearl and Drew... hm
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 15, 2022 14:11:53 GMT -5
Smart, Mack, Hurley, Cooley, Brey, Miller, Amaker? Got it. And this year we are looking at Wright, Few, Pearl and Drew... hm They may not have ever been very realistic candidates given what we now know about the process, but they were realistic enough their names had candidate profiles on sister sites, some commented publicly on the job, some definitely put out feelers, etc. This time around we aren’t even hinting at anyone of that caliber even as a rumor.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 15, 2022 14:55:24 GMT -5
I'd go back and look at the names being thrown around 5yrs ago. Not exactly overflowing with juggernaut coaching candidates... hm Smart, Mack, Hurley, Cooley, Brey, Miller, Amaker? Here's the thread from 5 years ago : hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/30220/next-georgetown-head-basketball-coachI've reread that thread - lot of the board favorites were downright terrible (Gregg Marshall, Frank Martin) but when you look at the rumored names that may have been contacted last search (Hurley, Cooley, Amaker, Randy Bennett, even Chris Mack) they're still coaching and having success.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 15, 2022 15:14:23 GMT -5
Got it. And this year we are looking at Wright, Few, Pearl and Drew... hm They may not have ever been very realistic candidates given what we now know about the process, but they were realistic enough their names had candidate profiles on sister sites, some commented publicly on the job, some definitely put out feelers, etc. This time around we aren’t even hinting at anyone of that caliber even as a rumor. I don't disagree that the prestige of the program has eroded over the last 5 years, but honestly there's not even "real" rumors at this point. It's all too early. If/when our job actually comes open you'll see more media around that. For now it's mostly fan speculation. It's not impossible that we could pluck a coach from a high major especially if it's a coach who has been in his current seat for a while, with generally positive results, but fans and boosters sometimes get a bit antsy if it seems they can't get over the hump or are trending in a bad direction (like what happened to us with III). In general it's very difficult for anyone to land a high major coach who is winning, well-paid, and generally happy with his situation. But overall I don't think the fact that there are no formal rumors about guys at the Shaka Smart/Chris Mack etc. level like there were in 2017 really means anything. Those guys never seriously considered us then, so whatever clout we might have told ourselves we had by being associated with them, it was mostly an illusion. I also think the fanbase is interested in the younger candidates because we're looking for something new and different. Tired of leaders who came of age during the 1980s and think of Georgetown through that lens. A millenial (or young Gen X) coach who has a new, modern vision for Georgetown rather than trying to turn the clocks back to the mid 80s again would be nice for a change.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 15, 2022 15:23:56 GMT -5
Hoya fans discussing on an internet forum who they would like to coach next year are not "rumors".
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Post by LoudSoundOfREBOUND on Feb 15, 2022 20:28:36 GMT -5
That being said, alexinixis made points that make me really excited about Dennis Gates. And then I think we are jumping the gun as we still have a HC who hasn't given any indication he is going anywhere and an Administration, AD, and Board of Trustees who have not expressed anything about PE not being HC next year. But Gates does look like a good man to do the job on many fronts, most importantly having an all-around approach to basketball, academics, life and relationships. To take a quick step back into the Dennis Gates discussion (only because I don't know much about him): can anyone speak to his scheming/in-game adjustments/other tactical considerations? I realize he probably doesn't have the success he does without it, but I'm wondering if he's pulling in better talent than the rest of the conference or if he is out-coaching the competition. I personally tend to put more value on being able to "do more with less," and am wondering how Gates (or any other coach, for that matter) would fare if he had to match up with BE coaches with better talent.
An established coach would seem to accelerate a turnaround on the surface. I'll admit, though, the thought of a young up-and-comer putting him or herself AND Georgetown in the national spotlight is certainly appealing.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 15, 2022 20:43:03 GMT -5
That being said, alexinixis made points that make me really excited about Dennis Gates. And then I think we are jumping the gun as we still have a HC who hasn't given any indication he is going anywhere and an Administration, AD, and Board of Trustees who have not expressed anything about PE not being HC next year. But Gates does look like a good man to do the job on many fronts, most importantly having an all-around approach to basketball, academics, life and relationships. To take a quick step back into the Dennis Gates discussion (only because I don't know much about him): can anyone speak to his scheming/in-game adjustments/other tactical considerations? I realize he probably doesn't have the success he does without it, but I'm wondering if he's pulling in better talent than the rest of the conference or if he is out-coaching the competition. I personally tend to put more value on being able to "do more with less," and am wondering how Gates (or any other coach, for that matter) would fare if he had to match up with BE coaches with better talent.
An established coach would seem to accelerate a turnaround on the surface. I'll admit, though, the thought of a young up-and-comer putting him or herself AND Georgetown in the national spotlight is certainly appealing. I can’t answer your question, which is a good one, but if alexinixis is advocating for Gates, you better believe he must be a really good Xs and Os guy. hm
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cas92
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Post by cas92 on Feb 15, 2022 20:47:23 GMT -5
That being said, alexinixis made points that make me really excited about Dennis Gates. And then I think we are jumping the gun as we still have a HC who hasn't given any indication he is going anywhere and an Administration, AD, and Board of Trustees who have not expressed anything about PE not being HC next year. But Gates does look like a good man to do the job on many fronts, most importantly having an all-around approach to basketball, academics, life and relationships. To take a quick step back into the Dennis Gates discussion (only because I don't know much about him): can anyone speak to his scheming/in-game adjustments/other tactical considerations? I realize he probably doesn't have the success he does without it, but I'm wondering if he's pulling in better talent than the rest of the conference or if he is out-coaching the competition. I personally tend to put more value on being able to "do more with less," and am wondering how Gates (or any other coach, for that matter) would fare if he had to match up with BE coaches with better talent.
An established coach would seem to accelerate a turnaround on the surface. I'll admit, though, the thought of a young up-and-comer putting him or herself AND Georgetown in the national spotlight is certainly appealing. May partially address your query/ies - theundefeated.com/features/dennis-gates-bet-on-himself-and-brought-cleveland-state-back-to-the-ncaa-tournament/www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2022/02/cleveland-state-basketball-the-coach-the-team-the-winning-will-continue-terry-pluto.htmlH/T to alexinixis/NWN.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 15, 2022 21:38:22 GMT -5
I have not seen enough of Cleveland State to comment on Gates' coaching style, but hope to catch them in their conference tournament next month.
For whatever it's worth, I expect that the Pitt job will likely open up and that Gates will get a strong look there given that he's having success at a lower level just across the border. Not saying he'll be their first priority, not saying they're necessarily in position to make a stronger offer than we are, just that I expect he's going to have some attention from at least one other high major this off-season. Also, there's a possibility that the Cal job could open up, and that's Gates alma mater, so keep an eye on that one too.
It'll be interesting to see what other high major jobs open up. IIRC when we went through it in 2017 the biggest competition was NC State, maybe LSU, and there were a couple other big moves that didn't really impact us (ie. Holtman to OSU). I feel like the coaching carousel may be busy this year, which is not great, it's more competition for us to get the best candidates. Maryland is already open obviously and provides major competition for high level candidates. Louisville too. Expect that Pitt will open, Georgia for sure. Very possible that NC State does, Mizzou too (I think they will take English). If Florida doesn't make the dance, they might open up too. Probably a handful of others. And some of those jobs may be good enough to pull in replacements from leagues like the Big East. I could see Willard going to Louisville for sure, meaning Seton Hall will open up. Cooley could be on the move too. Will Butler cut ties with Jordan? The Big East could look very different next year. Which SHOULD be an opportunity for us. It's going to be tough for us to climb past Villanova and UConn in the immediate term, maybe Marquette with Shaka too, but we SHOULD be able to leap over most of the other teams in this league, especially if Hall and PC have coaching changes. And relatively quickly. But we need the right leadership, obviously.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Feb 15, 2022 21:46:18 GMT -5
Wow -- he is impressive and brings so much of what I would love to see happening in our program, along our sidelines, in the team's practices, huddles, and games. He has a sense of the Big Picture and has proven he can get it done in competition. The culture he creates and encourages is something we all could believe in and support. Let's keep the conversation going!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 21:52:22 GMT -5
Opinions on him definitely vary and he doesn't qualify for that 40 under 40 list, but are we sure Archie Miller's washed up at 43? Not sure he was the best fit at IU (similar to Shaka at Texas) and not sure he'd be the best fit here, but the guy has shown with multiple Dayton teams that he can coach. No buyout to worry about either. Should we need to hire a coach, I really would want someone with demonstrated head coaching experience. The problem is there aren't too many of those guys out there who (a) are available or (b) are in jobs they would leave. You are basically left with choosing among retirees who may not even want to coach, especially at Georgetown (Beilein), the rare good coaches who aren't coaching at top programs anymore likely because of scandal (Pitino), or guys who by luck of the draw happen to be available (Mack). Assuming Beilein and Pitino are off the radar, I think Mack would probably be worth the hardest look. Maybe Miller. I think Mack will be in high demand in the offseason, but the guy had significant and long-time success with Xavier. He clearly knows how to coach. Outside this group, there really are few options among head coaches. Choosing Tommy Amaker would be a joke. We are ranked 210 on KenPom, Harvard is 209. That's not an upgrade. I know Harvard had a few good seasons, but they have since gone downhill a bit, and not been all that good since 2015. Plus, Amaker wasn't all that great at Seton Hall or Michigan. As for Jones at Yale, he's been there for over 20 years, and had only moderate success. There's no indication he can recruit at the level of the Big East, either. Among existing head coaches, there really are very few options among experienced guys. Once you get past the few that do exist, you're left mostly with unproven guys like Kim English. And yet, 5 years ago, people here were in love with the dude. And Crean. Shows what a crapshoot it is. Who cares what it signals to anyone’s Wall Street, Cap Hill or white-shoe law firm cronies about the state of Georgetown basketball. Burn it down. Find someone young and hungry. That’s your “connection” to JTII.
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cas92
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Post by cas92 on Feb 15, 2022 22:25:18 GMT -5
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 15, 2022 22:41:36 GMT -5
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