hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2022 8:48:29 GMT -5
I haven't spent as much time analyzing this matchup as I've been writing longer posts in other threads. A few thoughts though: - First, obviously wish Coach Ewing a speedy recovery and good health going forward
- I was admittedly skeptical of Butler in the preseason, and that has come to fruition. Are they the only team that was legitimately hurt by the extra year of eligibility? Bringing back players who weren't winning but are now blocking your younger players, why did anyone think they would have more success this year? If I'm a Butler fan, do I really want to see Aaron Thompson playing the same amount of time as Chuck Harris? Also more broadly, they seem to really miss Hodges, he was the guy who scared me last year
- Big picture, is Butler happy with the Jordan hire? He started the same year as Ewing, had some success with players he didn't recruit. His recruiting hasn't taken them to the next level and I'm not sure where you would find optimism for next season given where they are with everyone graduating. And the reason I'm bringing it up is that it kinda seemed like a slam dunk hire. Former player, worked his way through the ranks, young, had a year of head coaching experience under his belt. If this season continues down the path it's headed and we contemplate another direction, just a reminder that even the most logical hires don't work out. Is Jordan the equivalent of us going after Kim English? English is trending more success at Mason than Jordan had at Milwaukee. Now obviously get busy living or get busy dying so you don't sit pat just because you're scared you're going to miss. Just wanted to put that out there.
- Butler's 231st ranked offense vs. our 230th ranked defense. Stoppable force vs. moveable object, woof.
- It's even hard to guess what we're going to do because we don't know who's available. Is Carey back? Tim? Ryan? If Coach is in protocols would it be hard to believe that nobody else on the team is impacted?
- Echo others that I'm not expecting a radically different approach from Orr. Maybe you'll see different timeout usage or substitution patterns but not expecting the Xs and Os to look different.
- And if we play well honestly it's a get-right spot and will be unfair to credit Orr / dismiss Ewing. After Ewing's presser this really goes one of two ways, the guys agree with his assessment and come together, or they throw in the towel and say screw him if he's going to throw us under the bus. I'm betting on the former but will be on the lookout for the latter.
Can't watch it live tonight so DVR ready to go, good luck Hoyas
It's a difficult thing when you are a Stepping Stone School. Thad Matta, Linkeleter, Brad Stevens, Holtzman all skipped town and left for greener pastures. This would likely be our fate if we salt the earth on the Thompson/Ewing/Hoya family and start looking for outsiders. Any even moderate success and they are likely to skip town. I think with Butler they are in a precarious situation because once Barry Collier/Butler Way is gone it may all come crashing down. How about we hire someone who can give us some moderate success and see what happens?
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,399
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 13, 2022 8:51:04 GMT -5
Ewing is 58 - is that now considered “old”? Yes. Ewing is 59 not 58. So he is ANCIENT! 😁
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 13, 2022 8:52:39 GMT -5
I haven't spent as much time analyzing this matchup as I've been writing longer posts in other threads. A few thoughts though: - First, obviously wish Coach Ewing a speedy recovery and good health going forward
- I was admittedly skeptical of Butler in the preseason, and that has come to fruition. Are they the only team that was legitimately hurt by the extra year of eligibility? Bringing back players who weren't winning but are now blocking your younger players, why did anyone think they would have more success this year? If I'm a Butler fan, do I really want to see Aaron Thompson playing the same amount of time as Chuck Harris? Also more broadly, they seem to really miss Hodges, he was the guy who scared me last year
- Big picture, is Butler happy with the Jordan hire? He started the same year as Ewing, had some success with players he didn't recruit. His recruiting hasn't taken them to the next level and I'm not sure where you would find optimism for next season given where they are with everyone graduating. And the reason I'm bringing it up is that it kinda seemed like a slam dunk hire. Former player, worked his way through the ranks, young, had a year of head coaching experience under his belt. If this season continues down the path it's headed and we contemplate another direction, just a reminder that even the most logical hires don't work out. Is Jordan the equivalent of us going after Kim English? English is trending more success at Mason than Jordan had at Milwaukee. Now obviously get busy living or get busy dying so you don't sit pat just because you're scared you're going to miss. Just wanted to put that out there.
- Butler's 231st ranked offense vs. our 230th ranked defense. Stoppable force vs. moveable object, woof.
- It's even hard to guess what we're going to do because we don't know who's available. Is Carey back? Tim? Ryan? If Coach is in protocols would it be hard to believe that nobody else on the team is impacted?
- Echo others that I'm not expecting a radically different approach from Orr. Maybe you'll see different timeout usage or substitution patterns but not expecting the Xs and Os to look different.
- And if we play well honestly it's a get-right spot and will be unfair to credit Orr / dismiss Ewing. After Ewing's presser this really goes one of two ways, the guys agree with his assessment and come together, or they throw in the towel and say screw him if he's going to throw us under the bus. I'm betting on the former but will be on the lookout for the latter.
Can't watch it live tonight so DVR ready to go, good luck Hoyas
It's a difficult thing when you are a Stepping Stone School. Thad Matta, Linkeleter, Brad Stevens, Holtzman all skipped town and left for greener pastures. This would likely be our fate if we salt the earth on the Thompson/Ewing/Hoya family and start looking for outsiders. Any even moderate success and they are likely to skip town. I think with Butler they are in a precarious situation because once Barry Collier/Butler Way is gone it may all come crashing down. I think pay has had a lot to do with their attrition. That should change under the BE contract but most of those moves were when they were Horizon, A10. Now that they are getting a full share of BE money, they should be able to pay a scale contract and then it is about fit. Gtown has paid well over scale so I would think it would be much different. The grass isn't always greener. Just look at Mack. He could get bounced. Yes he got his money but was it really going to be all that much more then he could have gotten at X?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 13, 2022 9:02:52 GMT -5
It's a difficult thing when you are a Stepping Stone School. Thad Matta, Linkeleter, Brad Stevens, Holtzman all skipped town and left for greener pastures. This would likely be our fate if we salt the earth on the Thompson/Ewing/Hoya family and start looking for outsiders. Any even moderate success and they are likely to skip town. I think with Butler they are in a precarious situation because once Barry Collier/Butler Way is gone it may all come crashing down. How about we hire someone who can give us some moderate success and see what happens? GU has chosen the stability, and limitations, that come with making part of the job criteria "it is a dream job you likely will never choose to leave." I understand that many fans disagree with that. My take is that they should apply to be GU administrators or AD. Perhaps they are big donors who can have at least a small say. Otherwise- sorry. That is the philosophy. I understand and agree with it, but many do not, and that is tough. They should vote with their feet and find other interests if they dislike that. Many have already. GU and its basketball program will survive regardless.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 13, 2022 9:05:05 GMT -5
It's a difficult thing when you are a Stepping Stone School. Thad Matta, Linkeleter, Brad Stevens, Holtzman all skipped town and left for greener pastures. This would likely be our fate if we salt the earth on the Thompson/Ewing/Hoya family and start looking for outsiders. Any even moderate success and they are likely to skip town. I think with Butler they are in a precarious situation because once Barry Collier/Butler Way is gone it may all come crashing down. How about we hire someone who can give us some moderate success and see what happens? We already have Double97.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 9:12:43 GMT -5
How about we hire someone who can give us some moderate success and see what happens? We already have Double97. Who? JT3? He had moderate success until he got the big, fat, future-changing contract which led to the Nantucket years of no appearances on summer circuits, etc…
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2022 9:22:45 GMT -5
How about we hire someone who can give us some moderate success and see what happens? We already have Double97. Are you really suggesting that the last 4.5 years have been moderately successful?
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 9:36:22 GMT -5
It's a difficult thing when you are a Stepping Stone School. Thad Matta, Linkeleter, Brad Stevens, Holtzman all skipped town and left for greener pastures. This would likely be our fate if we salt the earth on the Thompson/Ewing/Hoya family and start looking for outsiders. Any even moderate success and they are likely to skip town. Why? According to other coaches (per articles), GU is a dream job. If the coach has moderate success, then he will be able to demand top 5 compensation and GU can and will pay it. Job security? Nothing like GU. The only way to get fired is if you stink up the place long enough that demonstrations make it uncomfortable for Jack et al. Btw, how does Villanova retain Wright?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 13, 2022 9:39:17 GMT -5
It's a difficult thing when you are a Stepping Stone School. Thad Matta, Linkeleter, Brad Stevens, Holtzman all skipped town and left for greener pastures. This would likely be our fate if we salt the earth on the Thompson/Ewing/Hoya family and start looking for outsiders. Any even moderate success and they are likely to skip town. Why? According to other coaches (per articles), GU is a dream job. If the coach has moderate success, then he will be able to demand top 5 compensation and GU can and will pay it. Job security? Norhing like GU. The only way to get fired is if you stink up the place long enough that demonstrations make it uncomfortable for Jack et al. Btw, how does Villanova retain Wright? At this point, it’s a risk we would need to take. If we hire a younger guy who succeeds there’s always a chance he could leave. But, that would by necessity mean that person would have turned the program around and had success. And that’s what we all want, right? And, as prhoya notes, you never know. Given the salary Georgetown can offer, it’s not a guarantee the person would leave.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 13, 2022 9:40:49 GMT -5
The school seems to have a different philosophy. Whether the coach is Ewing or someone else, fans ought to try to find peace with that.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 9:46:10 GMT -5
The school seems to have a different philosophy. Whether the coach is Ewing or someone else, fans ought to try to find peace with that. The Esh precedent serves to get out of this failed experiment.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 13, 2022 9:47:17 GMT -5
I have no idea what that means. GU replaced Esherick with another coach they assumed (correctly) would not leave voluntarily...and then another...
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 13, 2022 9:47:58 GMT -5
I mean finding peace with the notion that we will not hire someone who might see GU as a stepping stone. All of those candidates are excluded.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 9:51:03 GMT -5
I have no idea what that means. GU replaced Esherick with another coach they assumed (correctly) would not leave voluntarily...and then another... Esh was fired because of his losing record (and big mouth) versus BE foes and pressure from the student body, fans and the Board. Pat has a similar losing record.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 9:53:29 GMT -5
I mean finding peace with the notion that we will not hire someone who might see GU as a stepping stone. All of those candidates are excluded. Look to Villanova. GU without Thompson is a dream job. That’s how other coaches put it. I hate Villanova and it’s domination of the New BE, but thank God for it because it’s an example of a sister school’s great success which cannot be ignored.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2022 9:55:33 GMT -5
I have no idea what that means. GU replaced Esherick with another coach they assumed (correctly) would not leave voluntarily...and then another... Esh was fired because of his losing record (and big mouth) and pressure from the student body, fans and the Board. Pat has a similar losing record. As bad as Esh was, his tenure was so much better than Ewing and he left the team in a much better spot than Ewing will. It’s unbelievable that anyone could look at this and suggest we keep going with this mess.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 13, 2022 10:04:38 GMT -5
Talk to me in the 2025 range. I thought III should have had until at least 2020. I have a long leash and think that college programs are way to quick to part with coaches. My philosophical choice would be to suffer through what might end up (hopefully not) as a rough few years than to have a new coach every few years. Stability is paramount, even if the results may take a long time (if ever) to materialize.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:08:17 GMT -5
Talk to me in the 2025 range. I thought III should have had until at least 2020. I have a long leash and think that college programs are way to quick to part with coaches. My philosophical choice would be to suffer through what might end up (hopefully not) as a rough few years than to have a new coach every few years. Stability is paramount, even if the results may take a long time (if ever) to materialize. I think one thing everyone can agree on is that for five years, the program has not been stable under Pat.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:12:07 GMT -5
Talk to me in the 2025 range. I thought III should have had until at least 2020. I have a long leash and think that college programs are way to quick to part with coaches. My philosophical choice would be to suffer through what might end up (hopefully not) as a rough few years than to have a new coach every few years. Stability is paramount, even if the results may take a long time (if ever) to materialize. Let's face it some people have had the pitchforks out for Ewing from day 1. Remember that photograph with the table and the contract.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 13, 2022 10:12:13 GMT -5
In terms of roster, no, but in terms of staff, very much so.
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