hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2022 10:13:30 GMT -5
Talk to me in the 2025 range. I thought III should have had until at least 2020. I have a long leash and think that college programs are way to quick to part with coaches. My philosophical choice would be to suffer through what might end up (hopefully not) as a rough few years than to have a new coach every few years. Stability is paramount, even if the results may take a long time (if ever) to materialize. I think one thing everyone can agree on is that for five years, the program has not been stable under Pat. The only thing that has been stable is the payout for the coaching staff.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2022 10:14:11 GMT -5
Talk to me in the 2025 range. I thought III should have had until at least 2020. I have a long leash and think that college programs are way to quick to part with coaches. My philosophical choice would be to suffer through what might end up (hopefully not) as a rough few years than to have a new coach every few years. Stability is paramount, even if the results may take a long time (if ever) to materialize. Let's face it some people have had the pitchforks out for Ewing from day 1. Remember that photograph with the table and the contract. Seems to me that those of us who were skeptical about this hire were correct.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 13, 2022 10:17:02 GMT -5
Why? According to other coaches (per articles), GU is a dream job. If the coach has moderate success, then he will be able to demand top 5 compensation and GU can and will pay it. Job security? Norhing like GU. The only way to get fired is if you stink up the place long enough that demonstrations make it uncomfortable for Jack et al. Btw, how does Villanova retain Wright? At this point, it’s a risk we would need to take. If we hire a younger guy who succeeds there’s always a chance he could leave. But, that would by necessity mean that person would have turned the program around and had success. And that’s what we all want, right? And, as prhoya notes, you never know. Given the salary Georgetown can offer, it’s not a guarantee the person would leave. Just to be clear, you are now arguing the exact point against which you offered so much resistance during the debate about firing/keeping JT3. Took you long enough
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:17:32 GMT -5
In terms of roster, no, but in terms of staff, very much so. Yes, and in this case a stable coaching staff has not been a good thing.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:18:17 GMT -5
At this point, it’s a risk we would need to take. If we hire a younger guy who succeeds there’s always a chance he could leave. But, that would by necessity mean that person would have turned the program around and had success. And that’s what we all want, right? And, as prhoya notes, you never know. Given the salary Georgetown can offer, it’s not a guarantee the person would leave. Just to be clear, you are now arguing the exact point against which you offered so much resistance during the debate about firing/keeping JT3. Took you long enough Checkmate! Lol
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 13, 2022 10:20:05 GMT -5
The school seems to have a different philosophy. Whether the coach is Ewing or someone else, fans ought to try to find peace with that. This is probably the truest post on this entire board.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 13, 2022 10:21:50 GMT -5
Let's face it some people have had the pitchforks out for Ewing from day 1. Remember that photograph with the table and the contract. Seems to me that those of us who were skeptical about this hire were correct. Was anyone not skeptical of the hire?
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:22:14 GMT -5
Let's face it some people have had the pitchforks out for Ewing from day 1. Remember that photograph with the table and the contract. Seems to me that those of us who were skeptical about this hire were correct. You werent on this board back then, unless . . .
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:22:29 GMT -5
The school seems to have a different philosophy. Whether the coach is Ewing or someone else, fans ought to try to find peace with that. This is probably the truest post on this entire board. The “school” is what fired Esh and JT3. Make it uncomfortable and it will happen.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 13, 2022 10:23:11 GMT -5
Seems to me that those of us who were skeptical about this hire were correct. You werent on this board back then, unless . . . Regrettably, I’ve been on this board for almost 15 years now.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 13, 2022 10:24:46 GMT -5
This is probably the truest post on this entire board. The “school” is what fired Esh and JT3. Make it uncomfortable adn it will happen. It could, yes. This situation feels a bit different, but you never know. My gut tells me Ewing gets to walk away when he’s had enough, and maybe that’s soon. Who knows.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:26:09 GMT -5
Yes, who knows. Most importantly, I hope when it happens, he’s in good health.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 13, 2022 10:48:34 GMT -5
At this point, it’s a risk we would need to take. If we hire a younger guy who succeeds there’s always a chance he could leave. But, that would by necessity mean that person would have turned the program around and had success. And that’s what we all want, right? And, as prhoya notes, you never know. Given the salary Georgetown can offer, it’s not a guarantee the person would leave. Just to be clear, you are now arguing the exact point against which you offered so much resistance during the debate about firing/keeping JT3. Took you long enough When JT3 was under fire, my main point was that because he had previous success, and had proven himself as a good coach in the past, that we needed to be extra-sure that it was time to move on, because things could be a lot worse. And, I do think that IF JT3 could have gotten back to where he had been, it would have been a bonus that he was committed to Georgetown (and if Ewing was putting in a good performance, I would say the same thing about him). Contrary to 2017, when we were two years removed from the NCAA tournament and 4 seed, that is now far in the rear view mirror. I think the risk of moving on now is much smaller than in 2017, simply because (a) both the eye test and analytics indicate this may be the worst Georgetown team we have had in modern times, (b) there are no high impact recruits coming in that would turn things around, (c) there is a decent chance Aminu will go pro, (d) other than the BET there is really no success to speak of, and (e) Ewing's precedent indicates other roster turnover could happen. We are ranked in the 120s on KenPom, our defense is at an all time low, and there is very little hope of things improving because it has been much the same over 5 years. In a way, the super-poor performance, I think, makes it easier to move on now. If, instead, Ewing's teams were mediocre (for example, .500 in the Big East), I think Georgetown would never fire him. After all, Ewing is Ewing, and so you do need to be really sure you want to move on before firing him. You don't want to alienate your best player ever. But, I think that the super poor performance to date makes that an easy decision. Maybe we will turn things around, we have a lot of basketball left to play, but if not, I think the path forward is clear. In an ideal world, our coach would be someone who (a) had a connection to Georgetown and (b) was an excellent coach, because that person would be unlikely to leave. But, unfortunately, that person does not exist at the moment (ironically, if Cooley wasn't already in the Big East, he actually might be somebody who would be a good fit along these lines, but that would cause hoyaboya's head to explode ).
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 13, 2022 10:57:11 GMT -5
Just to be clear, you are now arguing the exact point against which you offered so much resistance during the debate about firing/keeping JT3. Took you long enough When JT3 was under fire, my main point was that because he had previous success, and had proven himself as a good coach in the past, that we needed to be extra-sure that it was time to move on, because things could be a lot worse. And, I do think that IF JT3 could have gotten back to where he had been, it would have been a bonus that he was committed to Georgetown (and if Ewing was putting in a good performance, I would say the same thing about him). Contrary to 2017, when we were two years removed from the NCAA tournament and 4 seed, that is now far in the rear view mirror. I think the risk of moving on now is much smaller than in 2017, simply because (a) both the eye test and analytics indicate this may be the worst Georgetown team we have had in modern times, (b) there are no high impact recruits coming in that would turn things around, (c) there is a decent chance Aminu will go pro, and (d) Ewing's precedent indicates other roster turnover could happen. We are ranked in the 120s on KenPom, our defense is at an all time low, and there is very little hope of things improving because it has been much the same over 5 years. In a way, the super-poor performance, I think, makes it easier to move on now. If, instead, Ewing's teams were mediocre (for example, .500 in the Big East), I think Georgetown would never fire him. After all, Ewing is Ewing, and so you do need to be really sure you want to move on before firing him. You don't want to alienate your best player ever. But, I think that the super poor performance to date makes that an easy decision. Maybe we will turn things around, we have a lot of basketball left to play, but if not, I think the path forward is clear. Excuse me? You went on and on about how we would never be able to attract a decent coach, how our job was not attractive and how it was smarter to stick with JT3. Is it that hard to admit? Over JT3's final four seasons, our BE record was 32-40. There was one good season in there, with an NCAA tournament bid and a tourney win. Over Ewing's first four seasons, our BE record was 26-44. We also won one Big East Tournament title, which all things considered would be the trump card in the comparison. So, your so-called "super-poor" performance is fairly similar here. Is it that hard to admit your personal biases are influencing your viewpoint here?. You are on opposite sides of the same argument. For the record, I'm consistent here: I'd be OK letting Ewing go, for the same reasons I was ready to move on from JT3.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 13, 2022 10:57:26 GMT -5
Thought this was the Butler thread...
Anyways, assuming the same group that was available for Marquette is available tonight (no inside info on that), really do think this is a game where Aminu is going to have to put us on his back and carry us to a win. He should be the best player on the floor by a mile. Question will be if he can find a nicer balance between attacking and distributing when the situations warrant themselves. Something closer to his decision-making in the 2nd half vs. Cuse will be needed.
Golden and Nze have hurt us in the past as role players who stepped up in key situations, but asking them to take on the role of primary go-to guys I think is above their pay grade. We've run into the same issue this year with Carey/Harris. Assuming Mutombo is still out, hoping Wilson can find a way to stay on the floor long enough to limit the number of cheap points Butler can get in the paint, as this is one of the poorest 3 point shooting teams (31.1%, 267th nationally) we'll play all year. Would have Wilson on Nze and Holloway on Golden to start, as Golden does have some sneaky range. Scouting report says to stick on Bolden and dare anyone else to beat us from deep, but we'll see if the staff came up with any kind of a game plan this time around.
Had a considerable athleticism disparity in the last game (and no, I don't buy that it was just COVID sluggishness), but that shouldn't be the case tonight. Butler doesn't have anyone that should scare us in that department, and given their penchant for turning the ball over, this would be a really good spot to press from the onset and speed up an opponent that doesn't like to be sped up. However, that's not been the M.O. of our staff unless we're down double-digits, so unfortunately we probably won't see that tonight until it's too late.
Regardless of who's the HC tonight, this is a game we should be able to win on effort alone. I would expect that given nearly a week to think about last Friday's disaster, our team comes out with considerably more fight and a higher level of activity.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 13, 2022 11:09:47 GMT -5
It's a sign of the times I guess that with a game less than 8 hours away, the thread is devoted to debating the merits and future of the current coach rather than the upcoming opponent. I hope for good health for Ewing and a turnaround to the season. There will be plenty of time to recycle arguments about the merits of the coach and the program after February, no matter how many dark clouds appear on the horizon right now. Wishing Coach Orr and the kids a great game tonight.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 13, 2022 11:19:35 GMT -5
GAMEDAY!
Love that we're discussing the Coach who won't even be there in the game thread. Figured we would have enough other places for that.
I'm assuming we are going to be closer to a full roster then last week. I think the guys will be fired up and ready to compete, Patrick usually gets through to them when he's in moods like after last week's game. It'll be interesting to see what Orr does but I have a feeling it'll be pretty similar to what we see Patrick do. They've been coaching together long enough and they already share thoughts during the game. As always, basketball nowadays is who can shoot better...fortunately I think Butler is one of the few that we should shoot better then even on an off night. Maybe their lowly ranked offense will give our D the boost it needs to step it back into a high level. Hope we have at least one of our missing Cs back because a Malcolm and JBill rotation at the 5 should never be where we want to end up.
Go Hoyas! Beat the Bulldogs!
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 13, 2022 11:25:39 GMT -5
Thought this was the Butler thread... Anyways, assuming the same group that was available for Marquette is available tonight (no inside info on that), really do think this is a game where Aminu is going to have to put us on his back and carry us to a win. He should be the best player on the floor by a mile. Question will be if he can find a nicer balance between attacking and distributing when the situations warrant themselves. Something closer to his decision-making in the 2nd half vs. Cuse will be needed. Golden and Nze have hurt us in the past as role players who stepped up in key situations, but asking them to take on the role of primary go-to guys I think is above their pay grade. We've run into the same issue this year with Carey/Harris. Assuming Mutombo is still out, hoping Wilson can find a way to stay on the floor long enough to limit the number of cheap points Butler can get in the paint, as this is one of the poorest 3 point shooting teams (31.1%, 267th nationally) we'll play all year. Would have Wilson on Nze and Holloway on Golden to start, as Golden does have some sneaky range. Scouting report says to stick on Bolden and dare anyone else to beat us from deep, but we'll see if the staff came up with any kind of a game plan this time around. Had a considerable athleticism disparity in the last game (and no, I don't buy that it was just COVID sluggishness), but that shouldn't be the case tonight. Butler doesn't have anyone that should scare us in that department, and given their penchant for turning the ball over, this would be a really good spot to press from the onset and speed up an opponent that doesn't like to be sped up. However, that's not been the M.O. of our staff unless we're down double-digits, so unfortunately we probably won't see that tonight until it's too late. Regardless of who's the HC tonight, this is a game we should be able to win on effort alone. I would expect that given nearly a week to think about last Friday's disaster, our team comes out with considerably more fight and a higher level of activity. I'll take the blame for the diversion. I thought it was an interesting parallel to look at Butler through the same lens but it basically served as the Bat Signal for the common tropes to be restated 8 times over. Hand up that's on me
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 13, 2022 11:30:23 GMT -5
Thought this was the Butler thread... Anyways, assuming the same group that was available for Marquette is available tonight (no inside info on that), really do think this is a game where Aminu is going to have to put us on his back and carry us to a win. He should be the best player on the floor by a mile. Question will be if he can find a nicer balance between attacking and distributing when the situations warrant themselves. Something closer to his decision-making in the 2nd half vs. Cuse will be needed. Golden and Nze have hurt us in the past as role players who stepped up in key situations, but asking them to take on the role of primary go-to guys I think is above their pay grade. We've run into the same issue this year with Carey/Harris. Assuming Mutombo is still out, hoping Wilson can find a way to stay on the floor long enough to limit the number of cheap points Butler can get in the paint, as this is one of the poorest 3 point shooting teams (31.1%, 267th nationally) we'll play all year. Would have Wilson on Nze and Holloway on Golden to start, as Golden does have some sneaky range. Scouting report says to stick on Bolden and dare anyone else to beat us from deep, but we'll see if the staff came up with any kind of a game plan this time around. Had a considerable athleticism disparity in the last game (and no, I don't buy that it was just COVID sluggishness), but that shouldn't be the case tonight. Butler doesn't have anyone that should scare us in that department, and given their penchant for turning the ball over, this would be a really good spot to press from the onset and speed up an opponent that doesn't like to be sped up. However, that's not been the M.O. of our staff unless we're down double-digits, so unfortunately we probably won't see that tonight until it's too late. Regardless of who's the HC tonight, this is a game we should be able to win on effort alone. I would expect that given nearly a week to think about last Friday's disaster, our team comes out with considerably more fight and a higher level of activity. I'll take the blame for the diversion. I thought it was an interesting parallel to look at Butler through the same lens but it basically served as the Bat Signal for the common tropes to be restated 8 times over. Hand up that's on me I moved my role in the conversation to the proper thread. You're right, this should be about Butler. I am looking forward to seeing a game for the first time in several days, and it'll be interesting to see Orr out there too. It's our best shot at winning a game this season, arguably, so let's do it!
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 13, 2022 11:43:22 GMT -5
Thought this was the Butler thread... Anyways, assuming the same group that was available for Marquette is available tonight (no inside info on that), really do think this is a game where Aminu is going to have to put us on his back and carry us to a win. He should be the best player on the floor by a mile. Question will be if he can find a nicer balance between attacking and distributing when the situations warrant themselves. Something closer to his decision-making in the 2nd half vs. Cuse will be needed. Golden and Nze have hurt us in the past as role players who stepped up in key situations, but asking them to take on the role of primary go-to guys I think is above their pay grade. We've run into the same issue this year with Carey/Harris. Assuming Mutombo is still out, hoping Wilson can find a way to stay on the floor long enough to limit the number of cheap points Butler can get in the paint, as this is one of the poorest 3 point shooting teams (31.1%, 267th nationally) we'll play all year. Would have Wilson on Nze and Holloway on Golden to start, as Golden does have some sneaky range. Scouting report says to stick on Bolden and dare anyone else to beat us from deep, but we'll see if the staff came up with any kind of a game plan this time around. Had a considerable athleticism disparity in the last game (and no, I don't buy that it was just COVID sluggishness), but that shouldn't be the case tonight. Butler doesn't have anyone that should scare us in that department, and given their penchant for turning the ball over, this would be a really good spot to press from the onset and speed up an opponent that doesn't like to be sped up. However, that's not been the M.O. of our staff unless we're down double-digits, so unfortunately we probably won't see that tonight until it's too late. Regardless of who's the HC tonight, this is a game we should be able to win on effort alone. I would expect that given nearly a week to think about last Friday's disaster, our team comes out with considerably more fight and a higher level of activity. Nze has a very banged up shoulder right now so his effectiveness has been down some but Golden has played very well lately scoring 17+ in 4 of their last 5 games... My biggest hope though is that Harris stays in his funk, without him playing well I don't see how they'll win many games...
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