Georgetown - Syracuse 12/11/21 Discussion

[DanMcQ]

Defend the District and Crush the Orange.

[FHillsNYHoya]

Kaiden may be important in this game. And predicting Aminu takes another step forward with the all around game. Keep moving the ball.

[prhoya]

Dec 8, 2021 23:57:18 GMT -5 FHillsNYHoya said:

Kaiden may be important in this game. And predicting Aminu takes another step forward with the all around game. Keep moving the ball.

Bounce back by Carey...

Glad to see our starters got rest tonight...

[FHillsNYHoya]

Yes we are gonna need a strong game from Don for sure.

[hoyaguy]

Bounce back time for Don and hope the momentum keeps going for Rice, Ryan and the squad

[professorhoya]

With Cues anything can happen but I think the unit we has actually matches up well with the Syracuse Boehiem Men.

This is probably one of the least athletic Syracuse teams in a long time for their 2-3 zone.
And we have the personnel that matches up well vs a 2-3 zone.
We have two 3 point shooters who can expose the holes in the zone.
Aminu can play either the middle high post or baseline zone breaker.
Dante can also break the zone.

I think the challenge is more all their 3pt shooters.
We need to make sure to not leave the Boeheim's and company open.
Girard, Boheiem 1, Boheim 2, Swyder are all good 3pt shooters who can break the game wide open.
So defensive discipline by us is going to decide the game.

[bigelephant]

Anything can happen against the orange!

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Shoot 50 threes and we should be fine. Avoid the excessive drive and weather the shooting runs they will go on too.

[hoyas212]

A lot of fans will consider this to be the most important game of the season.  If it goes well, it will likely be due in large part to another big game from Kaiden.  Hoping he breaks Iverson's record of 16 3 point attempts vs. Providence in '96.  Kaiden is definitely on Boeheim's radar after his UMBC performance.  Would a box and 1 or triangle and 2 be too simple to try at the collegiate level?  Kaiden's release is so quick, it would be hard for the zone to close out on him, even without much ball movement.  His offensive game is tailor made to play against Syracuse.

[aleutianhoya]

Dec 9, 2021 9:05:03 GMT -5 hoyas212 said:

A lot of fans will consider this to be the most important game of the season.  If it goes well, it will likely be due in large part to another big game from Kaiden.  Hoping he breaks Iverson's record of 16 3 point attempts vs. Providence in '96.  Kaiden is definitely on Boeheim's radar after his UMBC performance.  Would a box and 1 or triangle and 2 be too simple to try at the collegiate level?  Kaiden's release is so quick, it would be hard for the zone to close out on him, even without much ball movement.  His offensive game is tailor made to play against Syracuse.

They're extremely used to playing the zone against teams with good shooting. They know how to shade those shooters and account for them. There's no way they'd go full junk....or need to. The entire defensive is designed to force you to shoot contested twos or have the guys they want shoot the threes. And they're very good at it.

It's not a secret. He will still get some open looks if they screen for him and move the ball quickly.

[prhoya]

Dec 9, 2021 9:32:56 GMT -5 aleutianhoya said:

Dec 9, 2021 9:05:03 GMT -5 hoyas212 said:

A lot of fans will consider this to be the most important game of the season.  If it goes well, it will likely be due in large part to another big game from Kaiden.  Hoping he breaks Iverson's record of 16 3 point attempts vs. Providence in '96.  Kaiden is definitely on Boeheim's radar after his UMBC performance.  Would a box and 1 or triangle and 2 be too simple to try at the collegiate level?  Kaiden's release is so quick, it would be hard for the zone to close out on him, even without much ball movement.  His offensive game is tailor made to play against Syracuse.

They're extremely used to playing the zone against teams with good shooting. They know how to shade those shooters and account for them. There's no way they'd go full junk....or need to. The entire defensive is designed to force you to shoot contested twos or have the guys they want shoot the threes. And they're very good at it.

It's not a secret. He will still get some open looks if they screen for him and move the ball quickly.

Exactly, that's how Villanova beat it. They got plenty of open looks by passing crisply, screening and by Gillespie probing inside the paint and passing out. That could have been a 30-pt win, but Villanova couldn't hit the side of the barn in the first half.

[RockawayHoya]

This is a game where our tendency to overdribble will be severely tested. If Dante/Aminu repeatedly try to get all the way to the rim on their own, we will fail miserably. Ewing teams have been pretty decent in beating the Cuse zone on offense and I do think we have enough shooting to give them some problems, but it's going to require good/decisive decision-making from whoever gets the ball for us at the foul line.

+31 on the boards last night, will need to win the glass again and limit second shots. Obviously Malcolm/Ryan will be big here, but I think the biggest might be Holloway, who will be needed to both help on the glass and provide another credible threat from outside for spacing purposes.

Transition defense: probably the one thing I'm most worried about for really everyone, but mostly for the frosh... this will not be a game where you can jog back on D like we've been doing. Cuse teams are traditionally good at runouts and secondary breaks to find a trailer for a 3. Level of effort from the frosh/Rice needs to go way way up to prevent fast break points.

Much like UMBC, Cuse doesn't really have a 5 with any range either so Wilson/Mutombo really shouldn't be drawn away from the rim. The key might be Swider, who has hurt us from deep in the past while with Nova but is struggling from deep so far this year. Can we limit the overhelping off shooters like we did in the second half last night? Big test for this group to continue building in that aspect.

[vv83]

Holloway might be an interesting choice to play the foul line role against the Syracuse zone. He is a solid, calm decision maker who can find open teammates, hit a foul line jumper, and even put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. Mohammed is the other guy who we would probably want to have play this role - but I fear he'll tend to try to barrel to the basket and get swallowed up as the zone collapses on him. one other idea for this role - go with the classic Chris Wright plan that won a game for us in the Dome during the JTIII years, and put Dante at the foul line. You would think he is too short to make this work - but Wright was no more than a couple of inches taller than Dante.

From watching a couple of games in the last few weeks - it looks like Cuse has tweaked the zone a bit. Up top - they are often having one guard play almost man defense on the ball handler, with the other guard dropping down to guard the foul line. They always bring the wings up very high - so what they have been playing functions almost as a 1-3-1 much of the time. It's an interesting twist. With the wings playing so high, they try to lure you into throwing the ball to an open shooter in the corner, then trapping him aggressively before he can get a clean shot off or find an open teammate.

Their D has been nothing special this season, so I don't know that this twist is working, but it definitely looks a bit different.

I think the fact that they bring their wings up so high is really hurting their defensive rebounding. Villanova destroyed them on the boards, and Nova is not an especially strong offensive rebounding team - they don't attack the boards hard on offense because they focus on getting back to play transition D. But Wright must have seen the vulnerability of the Cuse D to offensive rebounding, so he had his guys attacking the weak side glass very aggressively.

I'll never understand the Syracuse half court offensive philosophy/plan. Mostly they are just trying to get guys a semi-clean look at a 3, and they fire up a 3 as soon as they get a sliver of daylight. They depend on hitting pretty tough 3s and scoring in transition. As others have said, the transition D is probably what I'm most concerned about. We have had stretches of horrific transition D this year, and Syracuse is very aggressive in trying to attack in transition.

[HometownHoya]

I actually really like how our team matches up against the Zone this year:

Rice - easy one here, he's going to shoot over the Zone. I bet Jimmy B shades towards him but Rice has the range and such a quick trigger that he's going to be taking the shots over them anyway.
Don - also has the range but has also been working on his mid-range. He's also prepared for this zone before and knows how to use the screen at the top to get into the middle and distribute.
Harris - can easily get past the first man into the teeth of the zone. From there he either gets his FT line jumper that he loves or dumps it off.
Aminu - will be able to bully past whoever is on him at the wing. Should be a good game for him to look for the pass rather then the shot but he'll be able to get to the hoop if we move the ball quickly around the outside.
Mutombo - his game is a zone killer. His mid-range touch is great and he should get plenty of jumpers.
Malcolm - while his offense is still very unrefined, he will be able to catch the dumpoffs and finish with a slam...they'll be there.
Holloway - as some other have mentioned, he can probably play some 5 against this team. No matter if he is the 4 or 5, he's smart enough to find the gaps in the zone and has the soft touch to finish or find open guys if Cuse collapses.
Riley and Beard - this will be both of their first Cuse game. I expect nerves to be high so hopefully they're solid when they get PT...just don't force things into the middle and get lost.
Billingsly - same thing for nerves but he should be able to play well inside against a zone. He can get the ball outside of his area which will be needed.

On top of everyone's individual skills, the main key will be rebounding. Aminu, Harris, and Billingsly are good at rebounding outside of their spot. Wilson and Mutombo are also solid rebounders, just need to attack the ball. Don has been more willing to do the dirty work this year and should get some. As long as we show the effort that we did last night, we should be able to win the battle on the boards against the zone and on D.

Others have pointed out that Cuse has a pretty good shooting team so we're going to need our guards to step up on defense, get hands up, and let the bigs rebound misses. Overall our defense did improve last night and we adjusted to their hot shooter but it'll be harder when there are more options like SUcks has. Make them uncomfortable and clean up the boards...no second chance 3s.

[calhoya]

I hope that Hoya fans outnumber the Orange. Last night's turnout was embarrassing whenever the camera panned to the empty arena. Hopefully, Ewing can turn this around and start generating some enthusiasm that will get enough people back in the arena to create a home court advantage. I certainly do not expect Rice to shoot 90% from deep, and it is doubtful the bigs will play as well against teams with good size, but there is no excuse for these kids not to continue ball movement on offense and the intensity on defense. If they do not guard the perimeter, the Orange will win going away. As an aside, Aminu plays better defense as a Freshman than any Freshman I can recall in recent memory.

[DanMcQ]

The Hoyas did play some 2-3 zone against UMBC (at least in the second half) and it looked somewhat serviceable.

[aleutianhoya]

Dec 9, 2021 11:01:25 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

I actually really like how our team matches up against the Zone this year:

Rice - easy one here, he's going to shoot over the Zone. I bet Jimmy B shades towards him but Rice has the range and such a quick trigger that he's going to be taking the shots over them anyway.
Don - also has the range but has also been working on his mid-range. He's also prepared for this zone before and knows how to use the screen at the top to get into the middle and distribute.
Harris - can easily get past the first man into the teeth of the zone. From there he either gets his FT line jumper that he loves or dumps it off.
Aminu - will be able to bully past whoever is on him at the wing. Should be a good game for him to look for the pass rather then the shot but he'll be able to get to the hoop if we move the ball quickly around the outside.
Mutombo - his game is a zone killer. His mid-range touch is great and he should get plenty of jumpers.
Malcolm - while his offense is still very unrefined, he will be able to catch the dumpoffs and finish with a slam...they'll be there.
Holloway - as some other have mentioned, he can probably play some 5 against this team. No matter if he is the 4 or 5, he's smart enough to find the gaps in the zone and has the soft touch to finish or find open guys if Cuse collapses.
Riley and Beard - this will be both of their first Cuse game. I expect nerves to be high so hopefully they're solid when they get PT...just don't force things into the middle and get lost.
Billingsly - same thing for nerves but he should be able to play well inside against a zone. He can get the ball outside of his area which will be needed.

On top of everyone's individual skills, the main key will be rebounding. Aminu, Harris, and Billingsly are good at rebounding outside of their spot. Wilson and Mutombo are also solid rebounders, just need to attack the ball. Don has been more willing to do the dirty work this year and should get some. As long as we show the effort that we did last night, we should be able to win the battle on the boards against the zone and on D.

Others have pointed out that Cuse has a pretty good shooting team so we're going to need our guards to step up on defense, get hands up, and let the bigs rebound misses. Overall our defense did improve last night and we adjusted to their hot shooter but it'll be harder when there are more options like SUcks has. Make them uncomfortable and clean up the boards...no second chance 3s.

Their zone is almost a 4-1, as odd as that seems. It's really, I suppose, a 2-2-1. With the wings (the second two) out wider and a bit closer to the hoop than the two guards. In any event the principles to attack it are the same:

You have to have different looks. They adjust to what the offense is doing and try to take it away. If you run the same flashing action to the middle, for example, it'll work once or twice, but they'll get steals the next five times. You have to have a few different options and keep them guessing.

To your point, teams often screw up the middle position and put a big there automatically. What you want is your best overall player there: Someone that can hit that shot is essential; someone that can pass effectively and quickly is essential; someone that can attack through traffic is helpful; and someone that can drive and finish through contact is helpful. So....you need someone good. Aminu would be my choice. Not sure Dante has consistently proven to be a good enough passer.

We tend to screen the top of the zone a ton with Patrick. And I do like that -- although not as an exclusive play.

[tashoya]

Hopefully, Buddy keeps jacking up shots and missing them like he's been doing all year. But, as we all know, he's more likely to break out of his season-long slump and have a career night against our Hoyas.

[hoyainla]

Dec 9, 2021 10:46:56 GMT -5 vv83 said:

Holloway might be an interesting choice to play the foul line role against the Syracuse zone. He is a solid, calm decision maker who can find open teammates, hit a foul line jumper, and even put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. Mohammed is the other guy who we would probably want to have play this role - but I fear he'll tend to try to barrel to the basket and get swallowed up as the zone collapses on him. one other idea for this role - go with the classic Chris Wright plan that won a game for us in the Dome during the JTIII years, and put Dante at the foul line. You would think he is too short to make this work - but Wright was no more than a couple of inches taller than Dante.

I think Holloway or Carey are the best fits in the middle. I am just not sure you can play Holloway as the small ball 5 which would have to be his fit in this. He has not shown to be athletic enough to rebound against the better teams. He has feasted on the cupcakes. I think Edwards would give him fits. I do not trust our rebounding with a 4/5 of Rice and Holloway. If you play him at the 4 what do you do with Rice and Aminu? I think Don is more of a natural fit especially against the current Cuse lineup.

[professorhoya]

Dec 9, 2021 15:40:12 GMT -5 hoyainla said:

Dec 9, 2021 10:46:56 GMT -5 vv83 said:

Holloway might be an interesting choice to play the foul line role against the Syracuse zone. He is a solid, calm decision maker who can find open teammates, hit a foul line jumper, and even put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. Mohammed is the other guy who we would probably want to have play this role - but I fear he'll tend to try to barrel to the basket and get swallowed up as the zone collapses on him. one other idea for this role - go with the classic Chris Wright plan that won a game for us in the Dome during the JTIII years, and put Dante at the foul line. You would think he is too short to make this work - but Wright was no more than a couple of inches taller than Dante.

I think Holloway or Carey are the best fits in the middle. I am just not sure you can play Holloway as the small ball 5 which would have to be his fit in this. He has not shown to be athletic enough to rebound against the better teams. He has feasted on the cupcakes. I think Edwards would give him fits. I do not trust our rebounding with a 4/5 of Rice and Holloway. If you play him at the 4 what do you do with Rice and Aminu? I think Don is more of a natural fit especially against the current Cuse lineup.

We don't beat Nova if he didn't do what he did against JRE.