DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 19, 2021 21:42:50 GMT -5
Well the sky was not falling yet again. But the 3s were.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 19, 2021 21:46:31 GMT -5
Ewing is spot on about the rebounding. That was really poor.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 19, 2021 22:00:06 GMT -5
Overall: Kaiden, all is forgiven. Awful defense of the three. Terrible defensive rebounding. Game ball to Carey. Dante has better handle than Beard. Mohammed much less skilled than I anticipated. Center is team weak spot. Agree and would add that Riley still seems to be pressing too much and it’s leading him to making mistakes. Also not seeing any improvement yet for Tim from last year. Hope that Ewing continues playing all three posts. Can Jalin shoot? Have only seen him shoot near the basket and does not seem to look for his shot.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 19, 2021 22:02:16 GMT -5
Won some $ on the Hoyas as I had the line much higher but feel I got pretty lucky. We may have been worse on D tonight that we were vs Dartmouth. Siena just could not hit an open 3 to save their life. I would put it up there with the worse shooting performances I have even seen in college relative to the shots taken. We shot 67% from 3 and they shot 28%. You could easily argue it should have been the other way around. Kaiden, Carey and Harris were really good tonight on offense and everyone else was pretty bad. It's good to get the easy win and hopefully gets some confidence for Kaiden and Dante but other than that not much to be encouraged about from this one. Glad you won some bucks, I can't bet because I know id lose it all to Dartmouth or less to Colorado. I feel like your entire post boils down to that the better shooting team won. As is often the truth in CBB. Do you think the scheme got the guys shots or Rice was just on fire? On the other hand, do you think our defensive scheme of funneling the ball to wing shooters (theoretically worse shooters in college) pays off? The better shooting team certainly has a huge advantage. I didn’t think Siena would take as many 3s as they did or else I wouldn’t have bet them. As for the scheme you don’t leave a 57% shooter open all night. That’s never the scheme. We weren’t daring them to shoot 3s we were flying at them after chasing. Coach said what he thought about Kaiden’s 3s in the postgame. I think most people that watched the game would say Siena got the better 3s and ran the better offense. They just didn’t have the guys to put the ball in the hoop.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 19, 2021 22:17:02 GMT -5
Well that 57% shooter went 3/9. Hes not a wing anyway which I was asking about our scheme. He was going to get his shots since he's their best player.
At this point, we tend to over help and fly back to recover. It's definitely not ideal but will work if we have the athletes. It looks chaotic but it can work. Plus it settles down as the season goes on.
In the end, I agree that Siena got some good shots but were overmatched. Hopefully as the team grows, we can cut out on the good shots.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Nov 19, 2021 22:26:36 GMT -5
We won.
Go Hoyas!
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Nov 19, 2021 22:40:37 GMT -5
Ewing is spot on about the rebounding. That was really poor. So many of those rebounds we were in decent position for and touched first. No reason not to squeeze or go after it harder.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 19, 2021 23:03:44 GMT -5
Hope that Ewing continues playing all three posts. He said after the last game that he was going to keep playing all three because it was the only way they would develop.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Nov 19, 2021 23:13:09 GMT -5
Dante tonight. 14 points 4 assists 3 rebounds 2 steals and ZERO turnovers. 5 for 7 from the field. 2 for 2 behind the arc.
For those asking for efficiency - I'd say you got it.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 19, 2021 23:19:20 GMT -5
Won some $ on the Hoyas as I had the line much higher but feel I got pretty lucky. We may have been worse on D tonight that we were vs Dartmouth. Siena just could not hit an open 3 to save their life. I would put it up there with the worse shooting performances I have even seen in college relative to the shots taken. We shot 67% from 3 and they shot 28%. You could easily argue it should have been the other way around. Kaiden, Carey and Harris were really good tonight on offense and everyone else was pretty bad. It's good to get the easy win and hopefully gets some confidence for Kaiden and Dante but other than that not much to be encouraged about from this one. Seems kind of twister logic. Instead of praising us for shooting lights out from 3 you are complaining about a scenario that didn't happen.
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Nov 19, 2021 23:20:28 GMT -5
Good game offensively. Good to see the veterans lead the way. Carey was efficient, and obviously Roce was feeling it. Nice game from Dante as well. Aminu still forcing it on the drives; he is great penetrating but he also needs understand when to move the ball rather than crash into double teams. That will come with experience. FT’s were better today. Riley is a little careless at times but man is he fun to watch. He is a disrupter and plays aggressive. Love the full court press when he is on the floor.
Defensively we left a lot of open shooters and thank god they were cold. The good is that you can tell this team is really trying to lock in on defense. They get caught ball watching and over rotating sometimes but the effort is there. Just need to get comfortable playing as a unit and trusting your teammates. If we keep teams 65 points or less we will be in great shape.
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hoyas212
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Post by hoyas212 on Nov 19, 2021 23:55:41 GMT -5
Good: the offensive philosophy has gotten away from dumping the ball into the post. Shot very well. Freshmen continue to show flashes. Experimenting with a zone. Highly ranked recruits Jahnathan Lamothe and Gregory Jackson in attendance.
Bad: Rebounding and still can’t guard the 3 point line in man to man. Siena coach said that was the most 3s they’d taken in his tenure, and a lot were quality looks. Different story if they weren’t ice cold.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 20, 2021 0:41:31 GMT -5
HUGE game from Kaiden. Big game from Don. We're going to be in a lot of trouble if we rebound the way we did tonight and if we can't find a serviceable inside option to at least make it a threat. And, Ryan looked less than ready to contribute at this level tonight. Also, IMO, Aminu's worst game so far. Just really poor shot selection. He looked more like Dante in the game against Dartmouth than he looked like Aminu in the American game. I know it's unfair but he's our best 2 way player. We're very badly going to need him to play like it game in and game out. I'm willing to bet that tonight's performance is, at least partially, him having recognized that fact and pushing a bit too hard. I think when he finds that he can count on his teammates to put up some numbers he'll rely on them more. He seems to me the type of guy that, when things get dicey, he's going to bet on himself even if they are low percentage looks because he's used to making it work. Hopefully, he finds a good balance sooner than later. Those touting Beard as taking Dante's slot sooner than later took a significant hit tonight.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 20, 2021 0:46:26 GMT -5
Some thoughts after a rare quick rewatch of the game plus some stats:
Dante had quick hands all night and sunk some 3s even if the motion didn't look good. He took some bad shots but improved his selection overall becoming much more efficient. Was a pest like the end of last year and knocked the ball out often but they ended up out of bounds rather than steals. He can get out and finish on the break...just needs to improve on his finishing and decisions in the half court but he can find his spots. 14 pts on 5/7 FG, 2/2 3s, 3 reb, 4 asst, 2 stls is exactly what we need from him and he can do better.
Aminu: a beast on both sides of the ball and is always in attack mode. Just needs to learn to stop his drives: the dish, shot, or layup are always there, he just needs to make the right choice and jump stop if nothing is there initially. His money will be made at the line though, he needs to live at the FT line whenever he is in the Thompson Center. He will get a ton of fouls called on him while also having not enough called for him during his college career. He's also already a quiet/steady leader on the court...mostly because he's in the middle of all the action. Only 2-10 from the floor but he was getting knocked all over the place. Took advantage of the easy points and went 7-9 from the line. Plus 7 rebounds, easily the highest of the team (Don and Dante had 4 ea).
Don: This is his team (first individual captain for Pat's Hoyas). He has improved so much since he came to the Hilltop and he's no longer a 3pt specialist. He still has the shot but can get inside off the dribble then finish or get an assist. He's still rough and can improve but it's promising he's expanding that part of his game while his 3 is still money. Again, this is his team and we will do well if he does well. Although he didn't get any tonight, I think he'll get some dagger 4pt plays as the season goes on...he always invites contact on his 3s. 7-9 from 2 bouyed by 3-4 from 3 is a great game, plus his new found driving game sent him to the line for 100% shooting on 3 FTs. Add in his overall improvement showing up with 4 reb 4 assists plus 2 TOs caused (a steal and block) and we have a great game from our leader.
Rice: Great shooting game, made some drives for 2s too to show us some variety. Defense and overall game needs to improve but I trust pat. He can shoot over anyone when he's hot...again, what a great game and way to prove us all wrong. Getting those % up real quick after going 7-10 from 3. I am concerned with how deep he pulls up from with a man in his face...just let the O work then get the easier shot...love the range though. He showed more attacking the basket, ending up with another easy layup (his only 2pt FG) and an assist, we just need him to be more well rounded on both sides of the ball. 4 Rebounds was an improvement and his offense makes up for the lack of D this game.
Tim: Game didn't fit him but he fought, rebounded, and had some good movement. He's going to get some tickytack fouls so we will need both Malcolm and Ryan. Can't complain about a big that can rebound and either dunk with authority or find the right pass for an assist but tonight he didn't have much of an opportuinty, nor was it a good matchup. It definitely looks like a committee with the other Cs so I'm sure we'll see a lot of matchup and hot hand play.
Motumbo: His instincts are good on D even though he got burnt a couple of times. Offense is definitely raw but he has moments of brilliance. He will get minutes this year so we need him to keep developing.
Wilson: I like his length, his activity, and his vision. He can rebound outside of his zone (or at least tip it) but he just doesn't have the weight to battle to battle down low (but can out reach his opponents). He's never going to overpower someone down low and he doesn't have the range outside of turnarounds. Although he could work great if the PGs learn to draw the C and float it to him. He's also pretty good in the PnR game due to his agility for his size. He may be our most versatile C on defense and matched up best with a smaller forward like Stomo (who played 37 min!)..
Beard: Happy Birthday! Nice even game, can't wait to watch him develop and he's going to have some big moments.
Riley: He's such a great athlete and finisher. He needs to learn to settle down on D but has such quick hands and his athleticism is so high, he could cheat for steals. His shooting needs improvement but watch out when he's hot this year. Nice to see a guy that can run and finish in transition. Definitely needs to develop his passing once he gets to the hoop and the shot isn't there (fortunately he has the athleticism and touch to finish anyway).
Billingsly: Good positioning, good reactions, good rebounding. Didn't really stand out until late but what a finish on the break for the alley OOP. He's oozing potential. I didn't realize he got 15 minutes but I think a lot of those were in the 2nd. I said it last game but if we have a press with Billingsly at the top, it could be lethal.
Wish we saw Holloway, hope is recovery is going quick. Can't imagine we see him next week but I hope he'll be ready. Can't wait to see Kobe either, hope he's back soon.
Defense: We definitely over help but in CBB, I don't hate it. For now, we're stopping the ball and making the 3rd, 4th or 5th passes hurt you (although that's how Colorado killed us). Today we let them get back to the best option but over time and with more in depth scouting, we will learn to shut down the best options. One weakness so is that we expect our C to defend 1 on 1. They should be able to most of the time but against some guys we will need to double Obviously we're letting up too many 3s but I believe that will decrease as guys learn to trust their teammates and don't help as much.
Rebounding: Definitely disappointing from our Cs tonight...both Malcolm and Ryan will end up tipping balls and Tim will end up with fouls. To be a good rebounding team, you need the other guys on the court to get the ball but the Cs need to do their part I think we have a bunch of dudes that can go and get it from the 1-4. I do think we'll do better against more traditional centers then a smaller quick guy like Stormo. Also rebounding should improve throughout the year since we are such a young team.
The Press: it's a key for this team and I can't wait for the games or comebacks that it is clicking The Break: this is probably the best breaking and finishing team Pat has had. This is a good thing.
In the end, some things worked this game that won't against better opponents. We also got let off the hook with some undisciplined defense. We shot well and they didn't shoot great. But that's why you play these games now. I'll take a 17point win while being in the lead the whole time any day.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 20, 2021 1:42:16 GMT -5
Won some $ on the Hoyas as I had the line much higher but feel I got pretty lucky. We may have been worse on D tonight that we were vs Dartmouth. Siena just could not hit an open 3 to save their life. I would put it up there with the worse shooting performances I have even seen in college relative to the shots taken. We shot 67% from 3 and they shot 28%. You could easily argue it should have been the other way around. Kaiden, Carey and Harris were really good tonight on offense and everyone else was pretty bad. It's good to get the easy win and hopefully gets some confidence for Kaiden and Dante but other than that not much to be encouraged about from this one. Seems kind of twister logic. Instead of praising us for shooting lights out from 3 you are complaining about a scenario that didn't happen. It's almost as though, in 2021, the team that shoots better from 3, more often than not, wins the game. So weird.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 20, 2021 1:49:05 GMT -5
Won some $ on the Hoyas as I had the line much higher but feel I got pretty lucky. We may have been worse on D tonight that we were vs Dartmouth. Siena just could not hit an open 3 to save their life. I would put it up there with the worse shooting performances I have even seen in college relative to the shots taken. We shot 67% from 3 and they shot 28%. You could easily argue it should have been the other way around. Kaiden, Carey and Harris were really good tonight on offense and everyone else was pretty bad. It's good to get the easy win and hopefully gets some confidence for Kaiden and Dante but other than that not much to be encouraged about from this one. Glad you won some bucks, I can't bet because I know id lose it all to Dartmouth or less to Colorado. I feel like your entire post boils down to that the better shooting team won. As is often the truth in CBB. Do you think the scheme got the guys shots or Rice was just on fire? On the other hand, do you think our defensive scheme of funneling the ball to wing shooters (theoretically worse shooters in college) pays off? Rice was on fire. And, his release was ridiculously quick. He wasn't thinking about anything other than jacking up the shot when he got the chance (exactly what you want from the shooter on your team). He was catching passes and, in the same motion, putting them up and draining them. On a couple of them, he was pressured (though not well covered). I don't expect to see a performance like that again this year but I sure am hoping we do. That was Curry level ridiculous. If Rice ends up being that dude, all talk of Patrick's recruiting ability will become invalid and preposterous.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Nov 20, 2021 7:31:01 GMT -5
Might have missed it, but was there any update on Holloway or Clark?
Do we think they both are ahead of the freshmen getting run now - Riley, Beard, Billingsley? Who stands to lose the most minutes by their return(s)? My guess would be Holloway eats into Billingsley’s minutes and Clark takes some of Riley’s?
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 20, 2021 7:58:55 GMT -5
Seems kind of twister logic. Instead of praising us for shooting lights out from 3 you are complaining about a scenario that didn't happen. It's almost as though, in 2021, the team that shoots better from 3, more often than not, wins the game. So weird. Agree, three point shooting differential, if meaningful, seems to determine the winner.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 20, 2021 8:19:01 GMT -5
Some additional thoughts the morning after--Carey has evolved into this team's best player and his presence on the court is truly stabilizing. Really like Beard's potential and early development. Hoping Rice has found his groove and is not going to be too streaky. Aminu must stay on the court as much as possible but would really like to see him work on a pull-up and shots from the perimeter more, just to make him an even greater threat. Worried a little about this team's FT shooting as they are not going to be good enough to to leave points at the FT line. Hoping someone can step up in the post and present some offense and rebounding--3 players 5 points and 6 rebounds! Nowhere near good enough in the BE. Next up is a very poor shooting perimeter team in SDSU--at least until they play the Hoyas.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Nov 20, 2021 9:04:06 GMT -5
Some thoughts after a rare quick rewatch of the game plus some stats: Dante had quick hands all night and sunk some 3s even if the motion didn't look good. He took some bad shots but improved his selection overall becoming much more efficient. Was a pest like the end of last year and knocked the ball out often but they ended up out of bounds rather than steals. He can get out and finish on the break...just needs to improve on his finishing and decisions in the half court but he can find his spots. 14 pts on 5/7 FG, 2/2 3s, 3 reb, 4 asst, 2 stls is exactly what we need from him and he can do better. Aminu: a beast on both sides of the ball and is always in attack mode. Just needs to learn to stop his drives: the dish, shot, or layup are always there, he just needs to make the right choice and jump stop if nothing is there initially. His money will be made at the line though, he needs to live at the FT line whenever he is in the Thompson Center. He will get a ton of fouls called on him while also having not enough called for him during his college career. He's also already a quiet/steady leader on the court...mostly because he's in the middle of all the action. Only 2-10 from the floor but he was getting knocked all over the place. Took advantage of the easy points and went 7-9 from the line. Plus 7 rebounds, easily the highest of the team (Don and Dante had 4 ea). Don: This is his team (first individual captain for Pat's Hoyas). He has improved so much since he came to the Hilltop and he's no longer a 3pt specialist. He still has the shot but can get inside off the dribble then finish or get an assist. He's still rough and can improve but it's promising he's expanding that part of his game while his 3 is still money. Again, this is his team and we will do well if he does well. Although he didn't get any tonight, I think he'll get some dagger 4pt plays as the season goes on...he always invites contact on his 3s. 7-9 from 2 bouyed by 3-4 from 3 is a great game, plus his new found driving game sent him to the line for 100% shooting on 3 FTs. Add in his overall improvement showing up with 4 reb 4 assists plus 2 TOs caused (a steal and block) and we have a great game from our leader. Rice: Great shooting game, made some drives for 2s too to show us some variety. Defense and overall game needs to improve but I trust pat. He can shoot over anyone when he's hot...again, what a great game and way to prove us all wrong. Getting those % up real quick after going 7-10 from 3. I am concerned with how deep he pulls up from with a man in his face...just let the O work then get the easier shot...love the range though. He showed more attacking the basket, ending up with another easy layup (his only 2pt FG) and an assist, we just need him to be more well rounded on both sides of the ball. 4 Rebounds was an improvement and his offense makes up for the lack of D this game. Tim: Game didn't fit him but he fought, rebounded, and had some good movement. He's going to get some tickytack fouls so we will need both Malcolm and Ryan. Can't complain about a big that can rebound and either dunk with authority or find the right pass for an assist but tonight he didn't have much of an opportuinty, nor was it a good matchup. It definitely looks like a committee with the other Cs so I'm sure we'll see a lot of matchup and hot hand play. Motumbo: His instincts are good on D even though he got burnt a couple of times. Offense is definitely raw but he has moments of brilliance. He will get minutes this year so we need him to keep developing. Wilson: I like his length, his activity, and his vision. He can rebound outside of his zone (or at least tip it) but he just doesn't have the weight to battle to battle down low (but can out reach his opponents). He's never going to overpower someone down low and he doesn't have the range outside of turnarounds. Although he could work great if the PGs learn to draw the C and float it to him. He's also pretty good in the PnR game due to his agility for his size. He may be our most versatile C on defense and matched up best with a smaller forward like Stomo (who played 37 min!).. Beard: Happy Birthday! Nice even game, can't wait to watch him develop and he's going to have some big moments. Riley: He's such a great athlete and finisher. He needs to learn to settle down on D but has such quick hands and his athleticism is so high, he could cheat for steals. His shooting needs improvement but watch out when he's hot this year. Nice to see a guy that can run and finish in transition. Definitely needs to develop his passing once he gets to the hoop and the shot isn't there (fortunately he has the athleticism and touch to finish anyway). Billingsly: Good positioning, good reactions, good rebounding. Didn't really stand out until late but what a finish on the break for the alley OOP. He's oozing potential. I didn't realize he got 15 minutes but I think a lot of those were in the 2nd. I said it last game but if we have a press with Billingsly at the top, it could be lethal. Wish we saw Holloway, hope is recovery is going quick. Can't imagine we see him next week but I hope he'll be ready. Can't wait to see Kobe either, hope he's back soon. Defense: We definitely over help but in CBB, I don't hate it. For now, we're stopping the ball and making the 3rd, 4th or 5th passes hurt you (although that's how Colorado killed us). Today we let them get back to the best option but over time and with more in depth scouting, we will learn to shut down the best options. One weakness so is that we expect our C to defend 1 on 1. They should be able to most of the time but against some guys we will need to double Obviously we're letting up too many 3s but I believe that will decrease as guys learn to trust their teammates and don't help as much. Rebounding: Definitely disappointing from our Cs tonight...both Malcolm and Ryan will end up tipping balls and Tim will end up with fouls. To be a good rebounding team, you need the other guys on the court to get the ball but the Cs need to do their part I think we have a bunch of dudes that can go and get it from the 1-4. I do think we'll do better against more traditional centers then a smaller quick guy like Stormo. Also rebounding should improve throughout the year since we are such a young team. The Press: it's a key for this team and I can't wait for the games or comebacks that it is clicking The Break: this is probably the best breaking and finishing team Pat has had. This is a good thing. In the end, some things worked this game that won't against better opponents. We also got let off the hook with some undisciplined defense. We shot well and they didn't shoot great. But that's why you play these games now. I'll take a 17point win while being in the lead the whole time any day. You usually catch the game at a sports bar. Where did you catch it this time? Happy Thanksgiving.
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