IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,528
|
Post by IDenj on Nov 9, 2021 16:41:51 GMT -5
Agree it’s sad we have to keep discussing this year after year. Not nearly as sad as those who don’t believe it’s reality.
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,775
|
Post by njhoya78 on Nov 10, 2021 9:13:59 GMT -5
An annual tradition...like the running of the bulls in Pamplona and the return of the swallows to Capistrano. More like the buzzards to Hinckley. . . Having spent three years in northern Ohio, I'm surprised I forgot to use the Hinckley buzzards as an exemplar. How about, as a tribute to Dick Goddard, I include the woollybears to Vermillion?
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:25:42 GMT -5
Exactly. I’m a fan of Pat and hope he finds his way. But like we both said in the end the coach has to assume responsibility for the program, be it situations he can control and those he can’t. If you're a manager of a team in a company, and your team has the highest rate of people leaving the company and has had a history of employees violating company rules and guidelines, that will definitely be held against you as a leader. Yes, each team member chose to violate roles or chose to leave, but as a leader you take responsibility. Saying the embarrassing level of conduct problems and attrition isn't on Patrick is like saying it isn't his fault when the team doesn't win, because the players are the ones playing poorly. If you're a corporate manager and you have high turnover in your department but you just achieved the highest sales of all your competitors during the most important sales quarter of the year, you're likely getting a raise.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:39:20 GMT -5
If you're a manager of a team in a company, and your team has the highest rate of people leaving the company and has had a history of employees violating company rules and guidelines, that will definitely be held against you as a leader. Yes, each team member chose to violate roles or chose to leave, but as a leader you take responsibility. Saying the embarrassing level of conduct problems and attrition isn't on Patrick is like saying it isn't his fault when the team doesn't win, because the players are the ones playing poorly. If you're a corporate manager and you have high turnover in your department but you just achieved the highest sales of all your competitors during the most important sales quarter of the year, you're likely getting a raise. That corporate manager wouldn’t have made it past the third year, unless it’s La Famiglia Inc.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:42:49 GMT -5
If you're a corporate manager and you have high turnover in your department but you just achieved the highest sales of all your competitors during the most important sales quarter of the year, you're likely getting a raise. That corporate manager wouldn’t have made it past the third year, unless it’s La Famiglia Inc. Oh weird, nepotism doesn't exist in the corporate world? Let me go tell half the VPs.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:44:01 GMT -5
That corporate manager wouldn’t have made it past the third year, unless it’s La Famiglia Inc. Oh weird, nepotism doesn't exist in the corporate world? Let me go tell half the VPs. Not due to name, but to his failures in reaching sales goals…
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 10, 2021 11:47:03 GMT -5
And just to make an important point: A COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM IS NOT A COMPANY/ CORPORATION/ FIRM/ BUSINESS AND SHOULD * NOT * BE RUN LIKE ONE!!!
|
|
SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,339
|
Post by SDHoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:48:14 GMT -5
And just to make an important point: A COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM IS NOT A COMPANY/ CORPORATION/ FIRM/ BUSINESS AND SHOULD * NOT * BE RUN LIKE ONE!!! I think A LOT of people would disagree with this statement...
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:53:33 GMT -5
And just to make an important point: A COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM IS NOT A COMPANY/ CORPORATION/ FIRM/ BUSINESS AND SHOULD * NOT * BE RUN LIKE ONE!!! I think A LOT of people would disagree with this statement... This to me is the actual crux of these repeated arguments. Expectations of the program and how it should be operated. Even those who think major athletics are now big business have a varying level of belief on how a business should be run.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:54:25 GMT -5
And just to make an important point: A COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM IS NOT A COMPANY/ CORPORATION/ FIRM/ BUSINESS AND SHOULD * NOT * BE RUN LIKE ONE!!! Interesting. How should it be run?
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:54:58 GMT -5
Oh weird, nepotism doesn't exist in the corporate world? Let me go tell half the VPs. Not due to name, but to his failures in reaching sales goals… Many employees out there have skated through bad performance due to connections (or perceived potential) then once they do excel, they get rewarded or previous stumbling blocks are forgotten.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2021 11:55:09 GMT -5
I think A LOT of people would disagree with this statement... This to me is the actual crux of these repeated arguments. Expectations of the program and how it should be operated. Same question. How should it be run?
|
|
hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,861
|
Post by hoyaguy on Nov 10, 2021 11:55:57 GMT -5
That corporate manager wouldn’t have made it past the third year, unless it’s La Famiglia Inc. Oh weird, nepotism doesn't exist in the corporate world? Let me go tell half the VPs. And most of the student bodies of the top 25 schools lol
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2021 12:00:37 GMT -5
Not due to name, but to his failures in reaching sales goals… Many employees out there have skated through bad performance due to connections (or perceived potential) then once they do excel, they get rewarded or previous stumbling blocks are forgotten. That’s not how it works unless it’s a family business.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 10, 2021 12:01:53 GMT -5
This to me is the actual crux of these repeated arguments. Expectations of the program and how it should be operated. Same question. How should it be run? My point was that everyone has their own opinions, not to champion my opinion. This subject specifically is one that is based on opinion, not fact...so there is a large variety in those opinions. Plus everyone always thinks their opinion is best. But since you asked me specifically, at Georgetown I believe it should be run as a part of the Athletic Department...Basketball at Georgetown is a part of the university, not it's own entity. It is a tool the University uses to raise it's profile and the money put in reaps rewards in other areas. I don't think it should be run as a "family" but also the players and former coaches ARE a family (similar to how other groups of students become like family). Personally, I don't think nepotism is a bad thing if the person is competent and shows the willingness and ability to grow. My major gripe with the current status quo is the below average marketing...if Athletics are meant to support and grow recognition of the University, we have to share news about those teams and engage with followers.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 10, 2021 12:02:47 GMT -5
Many employees out there have skated through bad performance due to connections (or perceived potential) then once they do excel, they get rewarded or previous stumbling blocks are forgotten. That’s not how it works unless it’s a family business. If you haven't seen that in any business, then you've been quite lucky. Nepotism includes friends, not just family.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 10, 2021 12:03:28 GMT -5
And just to make an important point: A COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM IS NOT A COMPANY/ CORPORATION/ FIRM/ BUSINESS AND SHOULD * NOT * BE RUN LIKE ONE!!! Interesting. How should it be run? Like a college sports program that is doing its best to win while also adhering to the standards of the university and representing the school with class and dignity. Winning should be important, yet still aspirational. GU hoops should never be in the "win or else" mindset that so many schools have adopted and that has been so harmful to college basketball.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2021 12:03:49 GMT -5
Same question. How should it be run? My point was that everyone has their own opinions, not to champion my opinion. This subject specifically is one that is based on opinion, not fact...so there is a large variety in those opinions. Plus everyone always thinks their opinion is best. But since you asked me specifically, at Georgetown I believe it should be run as a part of the Athletic Department...Basketball at Georgetown is a part of the university, not it's own entity. It is a tool the University uses to raise it's profile and the money put in reaps rewards in other areas. I don't think it should be run as a "family" but also the players and former coaches ARE a family (similar to how other groups of students become like family). Personally, I don't think nepotism is a bad thing if the person is somewhat competent and shows the willingness and ability to grow. My major gripe with the current status quo is the below average marketing...if Athletics are meant to support and grow recognition of the University, we have to share news about those teams and engage with followers. I agree with this, among other things that are easy fixes.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 10, 2021 12:09:51 GMT -5
Interesting. How should it be run? Like a college sports program that is doing its best to win while also adhering to the standards of the university and representing the school with class and dignity. Winning should be important, yet still aspirational. GU hoops should never be in the "win or else" mindset that so many schools have adopted and that has been so harmful to college basketball. Understood. Now, should GU be paying a Top 12 salary if the mentality is not “win or else”? In my view, if so, then why spend so much money? Look to Villanova to see how a highly successful program can be run with “class and dignity”. One does not exclude the other. It hasn’t harmed Villanova. On the contrary, it’s increased applications, which has led to improving their school ranking, a larger endowment, increased alumni donations, etc… We could use some of it.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 10, 2021 12:32:42 GMT -5
I am not saying those things are mutually exclusive- but they are hard to accomplish. And I think that we should allow time and be patient about trying to get to that point. Nova did that with Wright, and it paid off. I am not saying that will or will not happen with Patrick- but I in very much in favor of taking a deep breath and giving him time instead of taking the corporate production-based model and starting over.
|
|