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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 16:44:58 GMT -5
So to add more confusion to the mix. Reading the Casual Hoya article titled: RUMOR TRACKER: "Which Hoyas Might Run It Back Next Season?", it seems we may have a way out where we don't lose a player next year and we can still have all the seniors return as well and still be at the 13 scholarship limit. None of us thought about this but what if DC, who wants to come back next year, uses this year as the Covid bonus?
The Covid bonus doesn't count against the scholarships and after next year he could depart. What do you guys think of that scenario? Is it feasible? Or am I just wishing and grasping at straws to make this thing work?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 22, 2021 17:27:18 GMT -5
Yes. Not only that, but we legitimately recruited him (as we should have), and he counts as a scholarship. He's a top 100 player. He should have a scholarship. Athletic scholarships should not be awarded depending on whether your parents can afford to pay. I wasn’t trying to suggest anything about him .... just thinking out loud. I remember McDermott did it for his senior year and was still the star of that team ... as folks have said - numbers will work themselves out. Totally understood. I think the bigger point is that NCAA regulations do not allow him to give up his scholarship because he was actively recruited, took an official visit, etc. So, even if he wanted to do that, I don't think he could. BUT, the rules can be mystery and inconsistent. For example, Andre Drummond gave up his scholarship at Connecticut, and I have no idea why the rules allowed him to do that.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 22, 2021 17:35:18 GMT -5
I wasn’t trying to suggest anything about him .... just thinking out loud. I remember McDermott did it for his senior year and was still the star of that team ... as folks have said - numbers will work themselves out. Totally understood. I think the bigger point is that NCAA regulations do not allow him to give up his scholarship because he was actively recruited, took an official visit, etc. So, even if he wanted to do that, I don't think he could. BUT, the rules can be mystery and inconsistent. For example, Andre Drummond gave up his scholarship at Connecticut, and I have no idea why the rules allowed him to do that. A fairly bogus loophole: But there is a way around that thanks to Rule 15.5.1.2.1, which states that "a student-athlete who was recruited ... and whose only source of institutional financial aid is academic aid based solely on the recipient's academic record at the certifying institution, awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, may compete without counting in the institution's financial aid team limits, provided he or she has completed at least one academic year of full-time enrollment at the certifying institution and has achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (on a 4.000 scale) at the certifying institution." ballinisahabit.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-andre-drummond-counts-against.html?m=1
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Mar 22, 2021 18:40:59 GMT -5
I thought Drummond took a schollie some one else gave up.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 22, 2021 19:22:10 GMT -5
A fairly bogus loophole: But there is a way around that thanks to Rule 15.5.1.2.1, which states that "a student-athlete who was recruited ... and whose only source of institutional financial aid is academic aid based solely on the recipient's academic record at the certifying institution, awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, may compete without counting in the institution's financial aid team limits, provided he or she has completed at least one academic year of full-time enrollment at the certifying institution and has achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (on a 4.000 scale) at the certifying institution." It's the definition of a merit scholarship of which 30% of the undergraduate population at UConn has a partial or up to full merit grant. Per its web site, "All merit-based admissions scholarships are renewable annually for a maximum of eight semesters of University-approved full-time undergraduate study upon maintaining a 2.5 cumulative grade point average, with the exception of the Day of Pride Scholarship and Nutmeg Scholarship which require maintaining a 3.0 cumulative grade point average." Adding a prospect on a merit scholarship for a sport (usually football, but also basketball) provides some relief against scholarship situations just like how that happened. And for any readers unaware, Georgetown University has no merit scholarships.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 22, 2021 19:24:08 GMT -5
A fairly bogus loophole: But there is a way around that thanks to Rule 15.5.1.2.1, which states that "a student-athlete who was recruited ... and whose only source of institutional financial aid is academic aid based solely on the recipient's academic record at the certifying institution, awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, may compete without counting in the institution's financial aid team limits, provided he or she has completed at least one academic year of full-time enrollment at the certifying institution and has achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (on a 4.000 scale) at the certifying institution." It's the definition of a merit scholarship. UConn has a number of full-ride scholarships which an applicant can apply mid-year for the following year. Per its web site, "All merit-based admissions scholarships are renewable annually for a maximum of eight semesters of University-approved full-time undergraduate study upon maintaining a 2.5 cumulative grade point average, with the exception of the Day of Pride Scholarship and Nutmeg Scholarship which require maintaining a 3.0 cumulative grade point average." (And for any readers unaware, Georgetown University has no merit scholarships.) Why doesn't GU have any merit scholarships?? Then we could use the loophole, right?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 22, 2021 19:34:48 GMT -5
Why doesn't GU have any merit scholarships?? Then we could use the loophole, right? All aid at Georgetown University is based on demonstrated need, which has been a core position since at least 1978 (when it committed to need blind/full need admissions) and probably before that. The decision was as much economic as aspirational, since it elevated GU to a group of about 50 major universities which provide this level of institutional support. Among Division I schools that offer need blind admission and full need without any merit awards, that group is limited to all but the Ivies, Georgetown, Colgate, and Stanford. Schools like Duke and Notre Dame keep a few merit awards around to go after top kids--in Duke's case it's to get kids in NC that would be candidates for UNC's Morehead Scholarship, a fully funded four year grant.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 22, 2021 22:22:08 GMT -5
I'm also 95% sure Trey Mourning gave up his scholarship when Bradley Hayes got an extra year of eligibility. It's one thing to give up your scholarship in your later years once you have established yourself and you're trying to better the team or help out a teammate. It's another to not get one from the start. You were mentioned in a Casual Hoya article titled: RUMOR TRACKER: Which Hoyas Might Run It Back Next Season? Thanks for the heads up on the mention. I had mentioned to whipple last summer that Trey Mourning had likely given up his scholarship for Bradley Hayes based on the work RockawayHoya and I did to reverse engineer Georgetown's APR scores to see how close Georgetown was to being penalized. (short answer, Georgetown's APR was really bad going into this past season, and the Hoyas are probably lucky that the NCAA suspended APR penalties because of COVID) So to add more confusion to the mix. Reading the Casual Hoya article titled: RUMOR TRACKER: "Which Hoyas Might Run It Back Next Season?", it seems we may have a way out where we don't lose a player next year and we can still have all the seniors return as well and still be at the 13 scholarship limit. None of us thought about this but what if DC, who wants to come back next year, uses this year as the Covid bonus? The Covid bonus doesn't count against the scholarships and after next year he could depart. What do you guys think of that scenario? Is it feasible? Or am I just wishing and grasping at straws to make this thing work? The only way this theory could work is if Don Carey claimed that he used up a year of eligibility during his year in residence after transferring from Mount St Mary's to Siena. I don't believe he could actually make that claim based on NCAA transfer rules. There is no such thing as a COVID bonus. Every current player gets 5 playing years. If next year is the player's 5th and the player stays on their current team, the player won't count against the scholarship limit.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 23, 2021 7:47:28 GMT -5
You were mentioned in a Casual Hoya article titled: RUMOR TRACKER: Which Hoyas Might Run It Back Next Season? Thanks for the heads up on the mention. I had mentioned to whipple last summer that Trey Mourning had likely given up his scholarship for Bradley Hayes based on the work RockawayHoya and I did to reverse engineer Georgetown's APR scores to see how close Georgetown was to being penalized. (short answer, Georgetown's APR was really bad going into this past season, and the Hoyas are probably lucky that the NCAA suspended APR penalties because of COVID) So to add more confusion to the mix. Reading the Casual Hoya article titled: RUMOR TRACKER: "Which Hoyas Might Run It Back Next Season?", it seems we may have a way out where we don't lose a player next year and we can still have all the seniors return as well and still be at the 13 scholarship limit. None of us thought about this but what if DC, who wants to come back next year, uses this year as the Covid bonus? The Covid bonus doesn't count against the scholarships and after next year he could depart. What do you guys think of that scenario? Is it feasible? Or am I just wishing and grasping at straws to make this thing work? The only way this theory could work is if Don Carey claimed that he used up a year of eligibility during his year in residence after transferring from Mount St Mary's to Siena. I don't believe he could actually make that claim based on NCAA transfer rules. There is no such thing as a COVID bonus. Every current player gets 5 playing years. If next year is the player's 5th and the player stays on their current team, the player won't count against the scholarship limit. Are walk on's part of the APR score? And I suppose this would make seldom used players like Malcolm Wilson (who plays very little) pretty valuable in that they boost the APR score being good students.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Mar 23, 2021 7:51:02 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 23, 2021 8:03:02 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up. And he's back!
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 23, 2021 8:17:45 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up. And he's back! His bone stimulator must have worked wonders and he can type again.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 23, 2021 8:46:26 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up. This is your first post back? Wow
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 23, 2021 9:55:40 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 23, 2021 10:03:02 GMT -5
So if you go to the NBA/pros ealry then that hurts the APR since you don't get the point for staying in school? And is there any benefit to getting A's over B's or is it just a flat one point for being academically eligible. (In other words can you just stash a genius on the teams to boost your overall score)
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Mar 23, 2021 10:10:36 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up. This is your first post back? Wow No, it was not my first post.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 23, 2021 10:38:53 GMT -5
So if you go to the NBA/pros ealry then that hurts the APR since you don't get the point for staying in school? And is there any benefit to getting A's over B's or is it just a flat one point for being academically eligible. (In other words can you just stash a genius on the teams to boost your overall score) Correct, if you leave school for transfer or pros before graduating it hurts the retention score. However, there are two mitigating factors: -If a student is in good academic standing (2.6 GPA or higher, as opposed to the 2.0 GPA for academic eligibility) when they transfer from the school, instead of a 0 for their retention score the school will get a blank. So instead of the student counting as a 1 out of 2 in the total counting, the student would count as a 1 out of 1. -If a student leaves early (for the NBA/pros for example) but comes back and finishes their degree later, it's a bonus point for the school. So Braswell coming back and finishing his degree last year helped, and Sweetney finishing his degree in 2022 will also help. I essentially answered your A's B's question above, but to get the academically eligible APR point the student has to have a 2.0 GPA, and to get the transfer adjustment the student has to have a 2.6 GPA.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 23, 2021 10:46:03 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up. Technically this isn't all on Ewing. The four year rolling average ending with the 19-20 season would include the 16-17 season, which was JT3's last year. It's probably not fair to blame Ewing for the transfers of Isaac Copeland and Paul White, or LJ Peak going pro early, all of which happened before Ewing was hired by Georgetown.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Mar 23, 2021 10:49:11 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up. Technically this isn't all on Ewing. The four year rolling average ending with the 19-20 season would include the 16-17 season, which was JT3's last year. It's probably not fair to blame Ewing for the transfers of Isaac Copeland and Paul White, or LJ Peak going pro early, all of which happened before Ewing was hired by Georgetown. That’s a good point.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 23, 2021 10:53:54 GMT -5
APR is a flawed metric but it’s a disgrace that we’d ever be even close to the penalty area. I guess just add this to the list of things Ewing has messed up. Technically this isn't all on Ewing. The four year rolling average ending with the 19-20 season would include the 16-17 season, which was JT3's last year. It's probably not fair to blame Ewing for the transfers of Isaac Copeland and Paul White, or LJ Peak going pro early, all of which happened before Ewing was hired by Georgetown. With the move to allowing a one time not have to sit out a year when transferring rule, it would seems that transfers will exponentially increase and that the NCAA would have to adjust APR. has there been any talk about that?
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