LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 25, 2021 14:36:06 GMT -5
Giving credit where credit is due. On the most recent episode of Dawg Talk Terrell Allen mentioned that Waheed was his primary recruiter and was one of the first coaches to call him after he entered the transfer portal. It certainly sounds like coming back home to DC was a motivating factor for him, which likely helped Georgetown's case. But still, Waheed was able to get a DeMatha/WCAC player to come to Georgetown. Maybe he's just more successful with shorter recruitments of local players who already want to stay closer to home, like Pickett, Malinowski, and Allen. Malinowski and Allen were mid-major players coming out of high school. Getting them to come to Georgetown as grad transfers shouldn't be considered some sort of impressive feat. Pickett is a different story and I think he and Wahab are legitimately strong gets from the DC area. Not sure how much Waheed had to do with either of those recruitments. Waheed was the lead recruiter for Pickett. Not sure who led for Wahab. I wasn't bringing up Allen and Malinowski as "some sort of impressive feat". Just giving Waheed some credit based on new information I just learned this weekend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 14:40:19 GMT -5
It does seem that recruits haven't stayed local for a long time, with us or any other program. But which program has come out and put that foot in the sand the way Schnellenberger did for Miami and said we are the brand of the "DMV" or the "District" and really embraced it? Beyond having the right staff and the effort with local programs, I think it's branding. We don't have a brand that appeals right now locally or otherwise. Part of that is lack of winning, part of that is lack of an identity as a program, part of that is being super private about everything. JT2 established the Hoya Paranoia brand that had kids open to his pitch, but that was in an era where TV primarily could help him establish that, reinforced by merch, hip-hop, etc. Ewing has thus far failed to establish a brand. Which is a bit stunning when you are Patrick Ewing & Georgetown -- a top 50 all-time NBA Hall of Famer, probably top 5 all-time college player, 15 year NBA assistant, and a force of personality that wouldn't back down from anything in the game or outside of it tied to a university with a strong civil rights (at least for the bball program), Jesuit, international, top 20 ranked, in the heart of what's happening in the nation's capital brand. It shouldn't be hard to develop the brand from that. But part of the problem is we seem to have no interest in actually doing what it takes to do so in 2021, and the program's historical & current approach to not open itself to even its fanbase harms it at a time where every smart new business/movement/organization/program is more connected to its audience than ever. The more exposure, the more realness, the better -- you don't have to appeal to everyone, just your niche. And brand matters most when garnering excitement and interest recruiting, especially locally. The brand can't just show up when you win or be about the fact you are winning. When you lose then, you lose all traction and identity. Brand (assuming it resonates) and winning reinforce each other and the more you can invest in one, the stronger the other becomes. As an example: I'm originally from the LA area and USC has always built its football prominence upon the incredible recruiting hotbed of SoCal. USC lost its predominance as a recruiting powerhouse in recent years though -- they didn't sign any of the top 20 CA recruits in 2019. But over the last year, they've gone crazy hard in recruiting CA with the slogan "Take Back the West" and the idea that LA is where all the lights are brightest and the biggest stars come out. They promoted the hell out of that brand across social media and everywhere the recruits were. It was meant as a recruiting brand as much as a program-wide brand. It worked by getting a top 10 class for 2021 and getting top CA & west coast recruits again. But in line with what many have said here, key was that they paired that branding effort with changing up personnel, bringing in noted recruiting aces as assistant coaches who re-established strong ties to local high schools, and hiring a whole team to help with recruitment efforts like a digital video & production team to create materials for recruits. And once they got kids at the local schools, they had them doing serious recruiting of their teammates and other top players in the area. It was an impressive about-face from a downward spiraling program that local kids didn't want to play for to a strongly upward trending one with a resurgent brand in the area. The fanbase still wants to fire their HC Helton, but whoever's at the top will have a much stronger brand & resources to drive at this point. To me, though, the coolest thing about the next era of college athletics is the right for athletes to use their name & likeness to make money. No longer does paying for players have to be a blocker, because those kids can go make so much more from name & likeness if they want. There's more avenues for influencers to make money than ever and we could provide the initial platform as local athletic stars for them. If we leaned into that, leaned into a brand, brought in some dudes who are recruiting aces, and just said "Georgetown is the DMV" and prioritized local, we could become a powerhouse in local recruiting in a whole new way. But we can't be living in the past. We've got to embrace being the coolest, baddest, most progressive (I mean that non-politically), platform launching place to play on the Atlantic coast. We are Georgetown has to mean something and you've got to get local kids wanting to represent that. In 2021, that means more than coaches just being in high school gyms all the time (though that's a good start), because our lives (especially for gen z) are on the internet as much as they are in the real world any more. This is the same exact thing that I said a few months back. Georgetown is DC and all of DC, Maryland, VA and Baltimore kids should always give Georgetown a look before they decide any other program. We should always get the top two to three local recruits regardless. I came up with a strategy, just like yours, a few months back. It hurts me to see our kids leaving the area to go play for other schools when Gtown used to be the national brand. The University has got to do something to capture that old magic they used to have and they got to do it quickly! Other local universities are not getting local players either for some strange reason and it is mind boggling and a big big problem.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 25, 2021 14:43:59 GMT -5
It does seem that recruits haven't stayed local for a long time, with us or any other program. But which program has come out and put that foot in the sand the way Schnellenberger did for Miami and said we are the brand of the "DMV" or the "District" and really embraced it? Beyond having the right staff and the effort with local programs, I think it's branding. We don't have a brand that appeals right now locally or otherwise. Part of that is lack of winning, part of that is lack of an identity as a program, part of that is being super private about everything. JT2 established the Hoya Paranoia brand that had kids open to his pitch, but that was in an era where TV primarily could help him establish that, reinforced by merch, hip-hop, etc. Ewing has thus far failed to establish a brand. Which is a bit stunning when you are Patrick Ewing & Georgetown -- a top 50 all-time NBA Hall of Famer, probably top 5 all-time college player, 15 year NBA assistant, and a force of personality that wouldn't back down from anything in the game or outside of it tied to a university with a strong civil rights (at least for the bball program), Jesuit, international, top 20 ranked, in the heart of what's happening in the nation's capital brand. It shouldn't be hard to develop the brand from that. But part of the problem is we seem to have no interest in actually doing what it takes to do so in 2021, and the program's historical & current approach to not open itself to even its fanbase harms it at a time where every smart new business/movement/organization/program is more connected to its audience than ever. The more exposure, the more realness, the better -- you don't have to appeal to everyone, just your niche. And brand matters most when garnering excitement and interest recruiting, especially locally. The brand can't just show up when you win or be about the fact you are winning. When you lose then, you lose all traction and identity. Brand (assuming it resonates) and winning reinforce each other and the more you can invest in one, the stronger the other becomes. As an example: I'm originally from the LA area and USC has always built its football prominence upon the incredible recruiting hotbed of SoCal. USC lost its predominance as a recruiting powerhouse in recent years though -- they didn't sign any of the top 20 CA recruits in 2019. But over the last year, they've gone crazy hard in recruiting CA with the slogan "Take Back the West" and the idea that LA is where all the lights are brightest and the biggest stars come out. They promoted the hell out of that brand across social media and everywhere the recruits were. It was meant as a recruiting brand as much as a program-wide brand. It worked by getting a top 10 class for 2021 and getting top CA & west coast recruits again. But in line with what many have said here, key was that they paired that branding effort with changing up personnel, bringing in noted recruiting aces as assistant coaches who re-established strong ties to local high schools, and hiring a whole team to help with recruitment efforts like a digital video & production team to create materials for recruits. And once they got kids at the local schools, they had them doing serious recruiting of their teammates and other top players in the area. It was an impressive about-face from a downward spiraling program that local kids didn't want to play for to a strongly upward trending one with a resurgent brand in the area. The fanbase still wants to fire their HC Helton, but whoever's at the top will have a much stronger brand & resources to drive at this point. To me, though, the coolest thing about the next era of college athletics is the right for athletes to use their name & likeness to make money. No longer does paying for players have to be a blocker, because those kids can go make so much more from name & likeness if they want. There's more avenues for influencers to make money than ever and we could provide the initial platform as local athletic stars for them. If we leaned into that, leaned into a brand, brought in some dudes who are recruiting aces, and just said "Georgetown is the DMV" and prioritized local, we could become a powerhouse in local recruiting in a whole new way. But we can't be living in the past. We've got to embrace being the coolest, baddest, most progressive (I mean that non-politically), platform launching place to play on the Atlantic coast. We are Georgetown has to mean something and you've got to get local kids wanting to represent that. In 2021, that means more than coaches just being in high school gyms all the time (though that's a good start), because our lives (especially for gen z) are on the internet as much as they are in the real world any more. This is the same exact thing that I said a few months back. Georgetown is DC and all of DC, Maryland, VA and Baltimore kids should always give Georgetown a look before they decide any other program. We should always get the top two to three local recruits regardless. I came up with a strategy, just like yours, a few months back. It hurts me to see our kids leaving the area to go play for other schools when Gtown used to be the national brand. The University has got to do something to capture that old magic they used to have and they got to do it quickly! Other local universities are not getting local players either for some strange reason and it is mind boggling and a big big problem. Winning is the best. maybe only, cure. This won't be happening any time soon, unfortunately.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 14:48:59 GMT -5
This is the same exact thing that I said a few months back. Georgetown is DC and all of DC, Maryland, VA and Baltimore kids should always give Georgetown a look before they decide any other program. We should always get the top two to three local recruits regardless. I came up with a strategy, just like yours, a few months back. It hurts me to see our kids leaving the area to go play for other schools when Gtown used to be the national brand. The University has got to do something to capture that old magic they used to have and they got to do it quickly! Other local universities are not getting local players either for some strange reason and it is mind boggling and a big big problem. Winning is the best. maybe only, cure. This won't be happening any time soon, unfortunately. Sir, why do you keep typing the negative sentiments on every thread? Why don't you create a thread and just post all of your negative thoughts on that thread? You might be the only one posting but then again, maybe not. Maybe some people will join you and bash Coach Ewing and the program. Yeah, that's a great idea! Why don't you create a thread and name it, Patrick Ewing Sucks or I Hate Patrick Ewing or Georgetown Hoyas Stinks or something like that! You can post all day and night on that thread (you create) and leave the other threads for what they are meant for.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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The WCAC
Jan 25, 2021 14:59:22 GMT -5
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 25, 2021 14:59:22 GMT -5
Winning is the best. maybe only, cure. This won't be happening any time soon, unfortunately. Sir, why do you keep typing the negative sentiments on every thread? Why don't you create a thread and just post all of your negative thoughts on that thread? You might be the only one posting but then again, maybe not. Maybe some people will join you and bash Coach Ewing and the program. Yeah, that's a great idea! Why don't you create a thread and name it, Patrick Ewing Sucks or I Hate Patrick Ewing or Georgetown Hoyas Stinks or something like that! You can post all day and night on that thread (you create) and leave the other threads for what they are meant for. I’m just giving you the truth, as painful as it might be.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 25, 2021 15:36:26 GMT -5
He is somewhat right. Winning solves everything.
People like to get on local recruiting here and branding, but a recruiter has to have something to sell to a kid.
A brand is only as good as the product. JT2's brand was cultural and a national phenomenon because he won basketball games. A lot of basketball games. Big East championships. Final Fours. He had that platform to speak to power because he won basketball games.
Kids are business savvy these days. So are their handlers.
We are on pace to have 1 winning season in the last 6 seasons and potentially no NCAA tournament appearances within that span.
The only thing that one can sell is that if you can play, you'll get a chance to showcase your skills: Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc.
All transferred out within 2 years to other major schools. They took a lateral move rather than stay here.
That is a big challenge for a recruiter to sell to a kid and their parents (and handlers). Even if the kid is local.
We run a clean program too. Recruiting isn't the cleanest business. A lot of dirty politics involved.
Not to say we can't get kids. I think special players will solve our problems. Selfless, talented kids and people around them with good intentions. That is what we need. Those are hard to find. Recruiting services have a hard time identifying those type of players. Sustainable, winning programs do not.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 25, 2021 15:58:35 GMT -5
He is somewhat right. Winning solves everything. People like to get on local recruiting here and branding, but a recruiter has to have something to sell to a kid. A brand is only as good as the product. JT2's brand was cultural and a national phenomenon because he won basketball games. A lot of basketball games. Big East championships. Final Fours. He had that platform to speak to power because he won basketball games. Kids are business savvy these days. So are their handlers. We are on pace to have 1 winning season in the last 6 seasons and potentially no NCAA tournament appearances within that span. The only thing that one can sell is that if you can play, you'll get a chance to showcase your skills: Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc. All transferred out within 2 years to other major schools. They took a lateral move rather than stay here. That is a big challenge for a recruiter to sell to a kid and their parents (and handlers). Even if the kid is local. We run a clean program too. Recruiting isn't the cleanest business. A lot of dirty politics involved. Not to say we can't get kids. I think special players will solve our problems. Selfless, talented kids and people around them with good intentions. That is what we need. Those are hard to find. Recruiting services have a hard time identifying those type of players. Sustainable, winning programs do not. Arrizona, Texas Tech and LSU were not lateral moves for Akinjo, McClung and LeBlanc - all of those are very clear steps up as basketball programs compared to where Georgetown is currently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 16:17:45 GMT -5
This local stuff has gotten me very depressed!!!! Why can't we get those Dematha kids and that Paul VI and whoever is the top kid in the WCAC??? Why? Why? Why?!!!!!!!
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 25, 2021 16:23:07 GMT -5
This local stuff has gotten me very depressed!!!! Why can't we get those Dematha kids and that Paul VI and whoever is the top kid in the WCAC??? Why? Why? Why?!!!!!!! Because they have a dozen better offers.
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hoya59er
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by hoya59er on Jan 25, 2021 16:24:28 GMT -5
Have to blame Ewing and our other coaches, especially our head coach! Learn, Patrick, learn!
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 25, 2021 19:25:30 GMT -5
He is somewhat right. Winning solves everything. People like to get on local recruiting here and branding, but a recruiter has to have something to sell to a kid. A brand is only as good as the product. JT2's brand was cultural and a national phenomenon because he won basketball games. A lot of basketball games. Big East championships. Final Fours. He had that platform to speak to power because he won basketball games. Kids are business savvy these days. So are their handlers. We are on pace to have 1 winning season in the last 6 seasons and potentially no NCAA tournament appearances within that span. The only thing that one can sell is that if you can play, you'll get a chance to showcase your skills: Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc. All transferred out within 2 years to other major schools. They took a lateral move rather than stay here. That is a big challenge for a recruiter to sell to a kid and their parents (and handlers). Even if the kid is local. We run a clean program too. Recruiting isn't the cleanest business. A lot of dirty politics involved. Not to say we can't get kids. I think special players will solve our problems. Selfless, talented kids and people around them with good intentions. That is what we need. Those are hard to find. Recruiting services have a hard time identifying those type of players. Sustainable, winning programs do not. Arrizona, Texas Tech and LSU were not lateral moves for Akinjo, McClung and LeBlanc - all of those are very clear steps up as basketball programs compared to where Georgetown is currently. They are lateral in the sense they are a power 5 (or 6 in basketball) schools. It is not like they transferred to a lower school for more playing time. Our main pitch to recruits right now is that you can showcase your skills and help build the program into a winner, since we aren't winning. Our 3 best players who did that left for other schools, not the NBA or overseas. As you pointed out, they are in a better position right now (maybe not LSU with that cloud). Building something special here wasn't worth it for at least 2 of those 3 recruits. We aren't winning and our best talent are leaving for other schools after a short stay. How does a potential recruit view the program when that occurs? How does an ace recruiter sell that to a kid? Without cheating? It is a challenge. That is the challenge our recruiters face whether it is locally or nationally. Especially locally, when you have Maryland right up the street and Coach K, Wright, Boheim, etc. recruiting in the area too, with a history of success with players from the area as well. I keep hearing next year's recruiting class is good on paper. Remains to be seen until they get into live action, but at least props to the staff for acquiring the talent in spite of the odds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 19:36:40 GMT -5
Imo you guys are overthinking this. It's really about getting a guy in here who has a presence locally and who is determined to outwork other assistants.
Plenty of kids and their parents would prefer to stay local. The fact that we're not very good rn is a factor for some kids but not the majority. Plenty of positives for Georgetown to sell the biggest of which is immediate playing time, a big time role, and a world class education. You just have to work and cultivate relationships.
Pat and the staff need to get in there and show they're willing to fight for these kids. If they do that they will be successful. All they have to do is land 2-10 best players locally every year and we'll be dancing almost every season. It's really that simple.
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hoyaduck
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Post by hoyaduck on Jan 25, 2021 19:42:54 GMT -5
This is the same exact thing that I said a few months back. Georgetown is DC and all of DC, Maryland, VA and Baltimore kids should always give Georgetown a look before they decide any other program. We should always get the top two to three local recruits regardless. I came up with a strategy, just like yours, a few months back. It hurts me to see our kids leaving the area to go play for other schools when Gtown used to be the national brand. The University has got to do something to capture that old magic they used to have and they got to do it quickly! Other local universities are not getting local players either for some strange reason and it is mind boggling and a big big problem. Winning is the best. maybe only, cure. This won't be happening any time soon, unfortunately. lol
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hoyaduck
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya Saxa
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Post by hoyaduck on Jan 25, 2021 19:53:25 GMT -5
Winning is the best. maybe only, cure. This won't be happening any time soon, unfortunately. Sir, why do you keep typing the negative sentiments on every thread? Why don't you create a thread and just post all of your negative thoughts on that thread? You might be the only one posting but then again, maybe not. Maybe some people will join you and bash Coach Ewing and the program. Yeah, that's a great idea! Why don't you create a thread and name it, Patrick Ewing Sucks or I Hate Patrick Ewing or Georgetown Hoyas Stinks or something like that! You can post all day and night on that thread (you create) and leave the other threads for what they are meant for. He's a missionary for all that is negative surrounding the Hoyas. It is his duty to go thread to thread and spread the gospel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 20:00:53 GMT -5
Sir, why do you keep typing the negative sentiments on every thread? Why don't you create a thread and just post all of your negative thoughts on that thread? You might be the only one posting but then again, maybe not. Maybe some people will join you and bash Coach Ewing and the program. Yeah, that's a great idea! Why don't you create a thread and name it, Patrick Ewing Sucks or I Hate Patrick Ewing or Georgetown Hoyas Stinks or something like that! You can post all day and night on that thread (you create) and leave the other threads for what they are meant for. He's a missionary for all that is negative surrounding the Hoyas. It is his duty to go thread to thread and spread the gospel. I know. He must have a miserable life.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 25, 2021 20:12:05 GMT -5
Did III have an ace recruiter at G-town?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 20:15:18 GMT -5
Did III have an ace recruiter at G-town? Broadus is really good. If we had someone on his level we would be killing it rn.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 25, 2021 20:18:47 GMT -5
Did III have an ace recruiter at G-town? Broadus is really good. If we had someone on his level we would be killing it rn. Who did he help land at G-town? And during his stint at Maryland?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 20:43:04 GMT -5
Broadus is really good. If we had someone on his level we would be killing it rn. Who did he help land at G-town? And during his stint at Maryland? LJ Peak, Marcus Derrickson, Dajuan Summers, Henry Sims, Mitchell twins etc. On the net it says Austin and Chris but that's before I was really into this stuff so maybe someone who was around then can confirm or deny. Either way he's well respected up and down the east coast, and a constant fixture on the top 20 lists for assistant coaches before he got the gig at Morgan St.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 25, 2021 20:53:03 GMT -5
What is Coach Crouch's role in recruiting? Local guy. Coached in the local scene for years.
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