DudeSlade
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I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
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Post by DudeSlade on Jan 22, 2021 21:35:35 GMT -5
It does seem that recruits haven't stayed local for a long time, with us or any other program. But which program has come out and put that foot in the sand the way Schnellenberger did for Miami and said we are the brand of the "DMV" or the "District" and really embraced it?
Beyond having the right staff and the effort with local programs, I think it's branding. We don't have a brand that appeals right now locally or otherwise. Part of that is lack of winning, part of that is lack of an identity as a program, part of that is being super private about everything.
JT2 established the Hoya Paranoia brand that had kids open to his pitch, but that was in an era where TV primarily could help him establish that, reinforced by merch, hip-hop, etc. Ewing has thus far failed to establish a brand. Which is a bit stunning when you are Patrick Ewing & Georgetown -- a top 50 all-time NBA Hall of Famer, probably top 5 all-time college player, 15 year NBA assistant, and a force of personality that wouldn't back down from anything in the game or outside of it tied to a university with a strong civil rights (at least for the bball program), Jesuit, international, top 20 ranked, in the heart of what's happening in the nation's capital brand. It shouldn't be hard to develop the brand from that. But part of the problem is we seem to have no interest in actually doing what it takes to do so in 2021, and the program's historical & current approach to not open itself to even its fanbase harms it at a time where every smart new business/movement/organization/program is more connected to its audience than ever. The more exposure, the more realness, the better -- you don't have to appeal to everyone, just your niche.
And brand matters most when garnering excitement and interest recruiting, especially locally. The brand can't just show up when you win or be about the fact you are winning. When you lose then, you lose all traction and identity. Brand (assuming it resonates) and winning reinforce each other and the more you can invest in one, the stronger the other becomes.
As an example: I'm originally from the LA area and USC has always built its football prominence upon the incredible recruiting hotbed of SoCal. USC lost its predominance as a recruiting powerhouse in recent years though -- they didn't sign any of the top 20 CA recruits in 2019. But over the last year, they've gone crazy hard in recruiting CA with the slogan "Take Back the West" and the idea that LA is where all the lights are brightest and the biggest stars come out. They promoted the hell out of that brand across social media and everywhere the recruits were. It was meant as a recruiting brand as much as a program-wide brand. It worked by getting a top 10 class for 2021 and getting top CA & west coast recruits again. But in line with what many have said here, key was that they paired that branding effort with changing up personnel, bringing in noted recruiting aces as assistant coaches who re-established strong ties to local high schools, and hiring a whole team to help with recruitment efforts like a digital video & production team to create materials for recruits. And once they got kids at the local schools, they had them doing serious recruiting of their teammates and other top players in the area. It was an impressive about-face from a downward spiraling program that local kids didn't want to play for to a strongly upward trending one with a resurgent brand in the area. The fanbase still wants to fire their HC Helton, but whoever's at the top will have a much stronger brand & resources to drive at this point.
To me, though, the coolest thing about the next era of college athletics is the right for athletes to use their name & likeness to make money. No longer does paying for players have to be a blocker, because those kids can go make so much more from name & likeness if they want. There's more avenues for influencers to make money than ever and we could provide the initial platform as local athletic stars for them.
If we leaned into that, leaned into a brand, brought in some dudes who are recruiting aces, and just said "Georgetown is the DMV" and prioritized local, we could become a powerhouse in local recruiting in a whole new way. But we can't be living in the past. We've got to embrace being the coolest, baddest, most progressive (I mean that non-politically), platform launching place to play on the Atlantic coast. We are Georgetown has to mean something and you've got to get local kids wanting to represent that. In 2021, that means more than coaches just being in high school gyms all the time (though that's a good start), because our lives (especially for gen z) are on the internet as much as they are in the real world any more.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 22, 2021 22:07:57 GMT -5
It really comes down to relationships. The old "who you know" still rings true.
And don't forget, JT2 was a high school coach. That was the foundation of his brand. Before there was a Ewing and starter jackets. He had a great understanding of the high school scene. He had connections. He was from the area. Played one the same courts and neighborhoods of the kids he recruited. Different era yes, but there were still politics in recruiting back in those days too. So he had a lot of relationships in the DC area. He was able to build his program based on the local talent he acquired. He was in the Elite 8 before there was even a Ewing with mostly local DC talent (Shelton, Duren, etc.) and a out of towner by the name of Sleepy Floyd.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Jan 23, 2021 10:50:48 GMT -5
I'm not so much talking about a connection. I'm talking about winning. If you want examples that aren't blue bloods, I would go Gonzaga, Nova, Virginia, MichSt and UF. We are in a bball hotbed so there is no excuse not to get 4/5 star kids. Nova has plenty of local talent. MichSt, Gonzaga, Virginia and UF are getting talent off of winning.... The closest you've got to an example of a local recruiting pipeline amongst those schools is Nova in that they get a lot of Philly recruits, but that's, much like Michigan State, a coach with over a decade of consistently winning. Michigan State gets some michigan kids, but that's not really comparable and that's Izzo (also, 2019 = 0 michigan recruits, 2020 = 0, 21 = 2, neither of which were the state's top recruits, fwiw, at their spots--the #1 went to Michigan). Gonzaga's certainly not basing its success on local recruiting. Florida has a connection to Montverde, other than that...not much from FL. UVA isn't dominating a local recruiting scene Winning -> local recruits seems like the more likely causal order here.
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The WCAC
Jan 23, 2021 20:49:58 GMT -5
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Post by bornhoya on Jan 23, 2021 20:49:58 GMT -5
Next year we won’t have a player from the DMV on the roster that can’t be good for local recruiting
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 23, 2021 21:11:49 GMT -5
Next year we won’t have a player from the DMV on the roster that can’t be good for local recruiting Besides Qudus Wahab who went to Flint Hill, Dante Harris who grew up in DC before moving to TN, Aminu Mohammed who spent his freshman year at Archbishop Carroll in the WCAC, and potentially Donald Carey who is from MD. Not to mention walk ons Jaden Robinson from Baltimore and Victor Muresan from MD. But this thread is about the WCAC specifically.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 23, 2021 21:47:41 GMT -5
Next year we won’t have a player from the DMV on the roster that can’t be good for local recruiting Besides Qudus Wahab who went to Flint Hill, Dante Harris who grew up in DC before moving to TN, Aminu Mohammed who spent his freshman year at Archbishop Carroll in the WCAC, and potentially Donald Carey who is from MD. Not to mention walk ons Jaden Robinson from Baltimore and Victor Muresan from MD. But this thread is about the WCAC specifically. Five seniors (including the grad transfers) leaving, five new recruits coming in. While this year's players maintain an extra year of eligibility, the 13 scholarship limit still applies.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 23, 2021 22:45:59 GMT -5
Besides Qudus Wahab who went to Flint Hill, Dante Harris who grew up in DC before moving to TN, Aminu Mohammed who spent his freshman year at Archbishop Carroll in the WCAC, and potentially Donald Carey who is from MD. Not to mention walk ons Jaden Robinson from Baltimore and Victor Muresan from MD. But this thread is about the WCAC specifically. Five seniors (including the grad transfers) leaving, five new recruits coming in. While this year's players maintain an extra year of eligibility, the 13 scholarship limit still applies. Not exactly, you’re missing two points. 1. Donald Carey had two years of eligibility left when he enrolled at Georgetown. I only mentioned him as “potentially” since some people think he might only stay one year. None of us know how space will be made for the 5th 2021 recruit so it’s not really worth speculating at this point. 2. I didn’t include current players in their fourth year of eligibility (Blair, Pickett (DC), Jalen Harris, Bile) because I’m assuming they won’t return, and because it would have only furthered my point that there are DMV players on the team next year. However, if any of them do return they do will not count against the 13 scholarship limit. www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2020-10-14/san-diego-state-sdsu-aztecs-basketball-ncaa-extra-year-of-eligibility-new-transfer-rule“The eligibility is available at another school,” the [NCAA] spokesperson said in a subsequent email, “but the scholarship will count against team limits. If a student-athlete stays at their current school but has exhausted eligibility, their aid doesn’t count against team limits.”
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The WCAC
Jan 23, 2021 23:04:32 GMT -5
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Post by bornhoya on Jan 23, 2021 23:04:32 GMT -5
Next year we won’t have a player from the DMV on the roster that can’t be good for local recruiting Besides Qudus Wahab who went to Flint Hill, Dante Harris who grew up in DC before moving to TN, Aminu Mohammed who spent his freshman year at Archbishop Carroll in the WCAC, and potentially Donald Carey who is from MD. Not to mention walk ons Jaden Robinson from Baltimore and Victor Muresan from MD. But this thread is about the WCAC specifically. I’ll give you Carey but the other 3 aren’t DMV bred players
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 23, 2021 23:20:44 GMT -5
“The eligibility is available at another school,” the [NCAA] spokesperson said in a subsequent email, “but the scholarship will count against team limits. If a student-athlete stays at their current school but has exhausted eligibility, their aid doesn’t count against team limits.” Thanks for the clarification, although I'm not sure what a roster of up to 20 players will mean for underclass development. We've seen next to no freshmen PT this season and more than some people around here will not be happy if Ewing follows the same approach next season.
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on Jan 24, 2021 10:04:50 GMT -5
"More than some people"will not be happy no matter what Ewing does next season, if he does it at Georgetown. I'm not one of them. Dante may only be getting major PT because of the other Harris leaving the team but that's one freshman getting a lot of time. Sibley and Berger have been getting increased minutes in the several games before the pandemic pause. Kind of natural that it takes several games and more importantly a LOT of practices for freshmen to earn time. Kobe got early time and then was injured. Remember, we didn't have the usual 10 OOC games including 4-5 cupcake games to work freshman PT in. BUT, looking at it hat way doesn't produce the anti-Ewing spin that "more than some people" thrive on. Just sayin'
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 24, 2021 10:23:49 GMT -5
"More than some people"will not be happy no matter what Ewing does next season, if he does it at Georgetown. I'm not one of them. Dante may only be getting major PT because of the other Harris leaving the team but that's one freshman getting a lot of time. Sibley and Berger have been getting increased minutes in the several games before the pandemic pause. Kind of natural that it takes several games and more importantly a LOT of practices for freshmen to earn time. Kobe got early time and then was injured. Remember, we didn't have the usual 10 OOC games including 4-5 cupcake games to work freshman PT in. BUT, looking at it hat way doesn't produce the anti-Ewing spin that "more than some people" thrive on. Just sayin' The “anti-Ewing spin” is based on 3.5 years of horrible performance. This year is unusual but it doesn’t give him a pass for some of the fundamental issues he’s got around teaching, strategy, and in-game coaching. He’s terrible and has been every minute he’s been here. Maybe he’ll miraculously get better in whatever is left of this year but banking on a miracle is not a good plan.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 24, 2021 10:27:26 GMT -5
Unfortunately, we are missing games due to the pandemic. I don’t care about losses so much this season, but the younger players need game experience for next year.
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Post by hsaxon on Jan 24, 2021 21:29:07 GMT -5
Besides Qudus Wahab who went to Flint Hill, Dante Harris who grew up in DC before moving to TN, Aminu Mohammed who spent his freshman year at Archbishop Carroll in the WCAC, and potentially Donald Carey who is from MD. Not to mention walk ons Jaden Robinson from Baltimore and Victor Muresan from MD. But this thread is about the WCAC specifically. I’ll give you Carey but the other 3 aren’t DMV bred players Wahab is a DMV player.
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The WCAC
Jan 24, 2021 23:43:26 GMT -5
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Post by bornhoya on Jan 24, 2021 23:43:26 GMT -5
I’ll give you Carey but the other 3 aren’t DMV bred players Wahab is a DMV player. I think we have two different opinions on what makes a kid a dmv kid
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 25, 2021 4:37:42 GMT -5
Wahab matriculated at a DMV high School. Flint Hill, spent two years there.
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hoyazeke
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Jan 25, 2021 6:13:21 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 25, 2021 6:13:21 GMT -5
When did Dante move from DC. If he was 13 or under then he is not a DMV kid...
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SSHoya
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Jan 25, 2021 7:05:17 GMT -5
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 25, 2021 7:05:17 GMT -5
When did Dante move from DC. If he was 13 or under then he is not a DMV kid... He was in TN in 2013 in 6th or 7th grade. The JV Team won the sixth- and seventh-grade Alcoa Jaycees Basketball Classic Tournament Championship, and the All-Tournament Team included Herbert Booker, Marcus Smith, and MVP Dante Harris. The JV Team had a record of 13-3. www.oakridger.com/article/20140220/SPORTS/140229943
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hoyazeke
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Jan 25, 2021 7:11:47 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 25, 2021 7:11:47 GMT -5
When did Dante move from DC. If he was 13 or under then he is not a DMV kid... He was in TN in 2013 in 6th or 7th grade. The JV Team won the sixth- and seventh-grade Alcoa Jaycees Basketball Classic Tournament Championship, and the All-Tournament Team included Herbert Booker, Marcus Smith, and MVP Dante Harris. The JV Team had a record of 13-3. www.oakridger.com/article/20140220/SPORTS/140229943Yeah we moved to Spotsy when my oldest son went to 8th grade. Now he is a senior and he is not a Newport News kid any more.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 25, 2021 10:13:53 GMT -5
1. Assistant Coach Akbar Waheed played at Gonzaga and I believe he graduated from there in 1995. Granted that was a while ago, but it's surprising he hasn't had more success recruiting the WCAC and Gonzaga more specifically. When he was an assistant at Niagara he recruited a few Gonzaga players. 2. Waheed seems like the kind of coach that "lives in the gyms" when recruiting players (as evidenced by his recruitment efforts for RJ Davis, Terrence Williams, and Matthew Alexander Moncrieffe), but effort and presence doesn't always lead to a recruiting win. Giving credit where credit is due. On the most recent episode of Dawg Talk Terrell Allen mentioned that Waheed was his primary recruiter and was one of the first coaches to call him after he entered the transfer portal. It certainly sounds like coming back home to DC was a motivating factor for him, which likely helped Georgetown's case. But still, Waheed was able to get a DeMatha/WCAC player to come to Georgetown. Maybe he's just more successful with shorter recruitments of local players who already want to stay closer to home, like Pickett, Malinowski, and Allen.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 25, 2021 13:24:32 GMT -5
1. Assistant Coach Akbar Waheed played at Gonzaga and I believe he graduated from there in 1995. Granted that was a while ago, but it's surprising he hasn't had more success recruiting the WCAC and Gonzaga more specifically. When he was an assistant at Niagara he recruited a few Gonzaga players. 2. Waheed seems like the kind of coach that "lives in the gyms" when recruiting players (as evidenced by his recruitment efforts for RJ Davis, Terrence Williams, and Matthew Alexander Moncrieffe), but effort and presence doesn't always lead to a recruiting win. Giving credit where credit is due. On the most recent episode of Dawg Talk Terrell Allen mentioned that Waheed was his primary recruiter and was one of the first coaches to call him after he entered the transfer portal. It certainly sounds like coming back home to DC was a motivating factor for him, which likely helped Georgetown's case. But still, Waheed was able to get a DeMatha/WCAC player to come to Georgetown. Maybe he's just more successful with shorter recruitments of local players who already want to stay closer to home, like Pickett, Malinowski, and Allen. Malinowski and Allen were mid-major players coming out of high school. Getting them to come to Georgetown as grad transfers shouldn't be considered some sort of impressive feat. Pickett is a different story and I think he and Wahab are legitimately strong gets from the DC area. Not sure how much Waheed had to do with either of those recruitments.
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