Next year's record that would justify keeping Ewing?

[hoyaboya]

Obviously the talent is not there on this year's team, but it's crystal clear that Ewing is not an Xs/Os guru or strong developer of talent. We all know that the 2021 recruiting class bought him at least one more season on the Hoyas bench, but JT2's demise makes it more likely that Ewing could get fired unless he shows significant W/L progress. To that end, a question for the board: what would Ewing's record need to be next season to justify bringing him back for 2022-2023? .500 in conference? Making it to Friday night of the Big East Tournament? An NCAA Tournament bid? Curious to hear the board's thoughts on this. I think he'll be back in 2022-2023 as long as next season's overall record is above .500 and the Big East regular season record is 8-12 or better. That record would likely generate an NIT bid and show progress from the prior two seasons.

[Bigs"R"Us]

I think the bar will be set so low this season that a 8th or 9th place finish in the league will feel like a jump.

[drquigley]

Gotta be not just a marked improvement in BE record (at least 9-9) but also a clear indication that freshmen recruits live up to their promise next year, that next years recruits do the same and the 2022 recruiting class is exceptional. Hope is what the fanbase is looking for.

[SDHoya]

I think its gotta be tournament bid, or near miss. That was my point from the other thread--I don't think Ewing gets a total reset due to the defections and Covid, he just gets a pass on this year. But next year we should see something close to what we would have expected by now had this year not gone down the toilet.

[95hoya]

Gotta make the tournament because Aminu is a OAD and once he bolts it's back to square one.

[Bigs"R"Us]

9-9 in the BE is going to be tough next year. We will be young.

[hoyainla]

Jan 8, 2021 14:30:14 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

9-9 in the BE is going to be tough next year. We will be young.

It's going to be next to impossible unless covid is still a thing and games get canceled.

[njhoya78]

In my opinion, the bar is set low...I just want to see improvement, week by week, in the play of what will be a very young team.

[rhw485]

I don't think a specific record or place in Big East is honestly that meaningful. It's about making the tournament. If you do anything in the non-conference that would generally mean .500 in BE but that depends on strength of conference and if you don't challenge yourself in non-con then that might not work either (as we learned in year 2).

I'd much rather have the threshold as "meaningful games in March", basically are we at least on the bubble going into the last few weeks. That is not a high bar, we've lost sight of how terrible the bubble is because we can't sniff it but even Year 2 team would've met this criteria. I don't see how anything less in take 2 of year 2 is acceptable.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

500 in big east and tourney. I realize that may be unreasonable but we will be in year 5. I also realize the set backs in year 3 probably push to year 6 the reasonable expectations but at this point, Ewing has been given the chance to lose. JT Jr. preaches that in his new book that black coaches aren't given a chance to lose. I think that is true but I also thinking Ewing will get extra leash so he is probably good unless things implode next year and I don't see that happening.

[hoopsmccan]

Jan 8, 2021 15:09:17 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

In my opinion, the bar is set low...I just want to see improvement, week by week, in the play of what will be a very young team.

Probably at least as important as the record, I think development, retention and the 2022 class will be big factors.

hm

[EtomicB]

Jan 8, 2021 15:31:39 GMT -5 hoopsmccan said:

Jan 8, 2021 15:09:17 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

In my opinion, the bar is set low...I just want to see improvement, week by week, in the play of what will be a very young team.

Probably at least as important as the record, I think development, retention and the 2022 class will be big factors.

hm

You had me with your 1st two markers(especially #2) but the third would be the cherry on top...

[DFW HOYA]

Jan 8, 2021 15:20:07 GMT -5 ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

5 JT Jr. preaches that in his new book that black coaches aren't given a chance to lose. I think that is true but I also thinking Ewing will get extra leash so he is probably good unless things implode next year and I don't see that happening.

Dave Leitao comes to mind. So does Oliver Purnell.

Only one Big East black head coach has been fired in fewer than five years, not counting interim coaches: Miami's Perry Clark (2000-04), and they were already leaving for the ACC.

There have been a number of short tenured coaches: Hoddy Mahon (Seton Hall, 1 season), Gordie Chiesa (Providence, 1 season), Gary Walters (Providence, 2 seasons), Fran Fraschilla (St. John's, 2 seasons), Keno Davis (Providence, 3 seasons), and Mike Rice (Rutgers, 3 seasons).

[hoyaboya]

Jan 8, 2021 16:00:38 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jan 8, 2021 15:20:07 GMT -5 ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

5 JT Jr. preaches that in his new book that black coaches aren't given a chance to lose. I think that is true but I also thinking Ewing will get extra leash so he is probably good unless things implode next year and I don't see that happening.

Dave Leitao comes to mind. So does Oliver Purnell.

Only one Big East black head coach has been fired in fewer than five years, not counting interim coaches: Miami's Perry Clark (2000-04), and they were already leaving for the ACC.

There have been a number of short tenured coaches: Hoddy Mahon (Seton Hall, 1 season), Gordie Chiesa (Providence, 1 season), Gary Walters (Providence, 2 seasons), Fran Fraschilla (St. John's, 2 seasons), Keno Davis (Providence, 3 seasons), and Mike Rice (Rutgers, 3 seasons).

Leonard Hamilton's first twelve years as a head coach:

1986-87 Oklahoma State 8-20
1987-88 Oklahoma State 14-16
1988-89 Oklahoma State 17-13
1989-90 Oklahoma State 17-14
1990-91 Miami 9-19
1991-92 Miami 8-24
1992-93 Miami 10-17
1993-94 Miami 7-20
1994-95 Miami 15-13
1995-96 Miami 15-13
1996-97 Miami 16-13
1997-98 Miami 18-10

Didn't make the NCAA Tournament until year 12, when his Miami Hurricanes lost in the first round. JT2 never let facts get in the way of a good story.

[hoya9797]

Jan 8, 2021 11:38:42 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Gotta be not just a marked improvement in BE record (at least 9-9) but also a clear indication that freshmen recruits live up to their promise next year, that next years recruits do the same and the 2022 recruiting class is exceptional. Hope is what the fanbase is looking for.

Might as well get it over with and fire him now.

[hoyaduck]

Jan 8, 2021 16:46:47 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Jan 8, 2021 11:38:42 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Gotta be not just a marked improvement in BE record (at least 9-9) but also a clear indication that freshmen recruits live up to their promise next year, that next years recruits do the same and the 2022 recruiting class is exceptional. Hope is what the fanbase is looking for.

Might as well get it over with and fire him now.

Yeah let's just have this board coach right now. I'll provide my minimal input in exchange for team Jordan gear.

[mdtd]

Going off our record in college hoops is weird since you control your own schedule and making the tourney isn't about your record. But I think next year is tourney or bust. We have to come out ready and able t beat some strong teams. We have to schedule well. Our defense has to improve. And I'm not sure how our conference is going to be next year. How does Nova look without Gilespie or JRE? Or do their seniors (JRE is going round one, he's gone) return for the extra year? Does Bouknight come back? How do these teams do on the grad transfer market? etc.

But our team should make the Big Dance, or at least be very close to it. Like a First 4 out type close. Get the freshmen PT year this year, know what you have to get, recognize the talent of our class, and put these guys in a position to succeed. Beard and Riley have so much potential. Improve our defense (probably by hiring a defensive-minded assistant) and put out guys in a position to succeed. Aminu will be the most talented player on the floor in most of our games. Let's use that and make the Big Dance. Starts by seeing what we will have for next year.

[dailey247]

20 wins and another good recruiting class signed

[FHillsNYHoya]

Lets be honest. We may win 5 games this year. Worst record since before Pops. .500 sounds like it would be pretty incredible next year given the inexperienced roster. And I love the kids coming in. LOVE THEM. I am ecstatic w 18 wins and ok with .500 or so.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Jan 8, 2021 16:21:29 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jan 8, 2021 16:00:38 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Dave Leitao comes to mind. So does Oliver Purnell.

Only one Big East black head coach has been fired in fewer than five years, not counting interim coaches: Miami's Perry Clark (2000-04), and they were already leaving for the ACC.

There have been a number of short tenured coaches: Hoddy Mahon (Seton Hall, 1 season), Gordie Chiesa (Providence, 1 season), Gary Walters (Providence, 2 seasons), Fran Fraschilla (St. John's, 2 seasons), Keno Davis (Providence, 3 seasons), and Mike Rice (Rutgers, 3 seasons).

Leonard Hamilton's first twelve years as a head coach:

1986-87 Oklahoma State 8-20
1987-88 Oklahoma State 14-16
1988-89 Oklahoma State 17-13
1989-90 Oklahoma State 17-14
1990-91 Miami 9-19
1991-92 Miami 8-24
1992-93 Miami 10-17
1993-94 Miami 7-20
1994-95 Miami 15-13
1995-96 Miami 15-13
1996-97 Miami 16-13
1997-98 Miami 18-10

Didn't make the NCAA Tournament until year 12, when his Miami Hurricanes lost in the first round. JT2 never let facts get in the way of a good story.

The argument could be that coaches in general aren't allowed to fail. For every Hamilton, there are a couple dozen other coaches who had a short leash. JTIII's early success and his recruiting success those first 6 years may have created some unfair expectations.