daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 18, 2021 16:55:34 GMT -5
My hope is that every senior and grad transfer moves on. I would truly like to see a fresh start next year. Has anyone clarified ever if Carey is just one year or two?
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 18, 2021 17:00:36 GMT -5
Well as long as you understand that a fresh start likely means another year of maddening inconsistency and frustration. No matter how highly regarded the incoming class, they will still be freshmen, still inexperienced at the collegiate level, still not having any experience playing together as a unit and playing in what should be a greatly improved BE. Not saying I want Pickett and Blair to return or any of the senior graduate transfers, but honestly it is going to be necessary for us to have some experience next year or this could be a true gut punch to the program. How much mediocrity can this program endure before all the past glory has vanished and we are nothing more than a glorified mid-major playing in the BE?
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Jan 18, 2021 17:10:28 GMT -5
Hence “start”, it won’t be great immediately obviously but it just gets tiring to have the same complaints about the same players. To the point of experience I would prefer (if another spot somehow opened) getting an experienced transfer at PG or PF to try to help a bit for the year. At least with new blood it has a chance of being refreshed and not stale.
Also I think it’s believed Carey is leaving after this year since he got proper exposure and he was friends with Pickett even though he has another year of normal eligibility.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 18, 2021 17:15:05 GMT -5
Well as long as you understand that a fresh start likely means another year of maddening inconsistency and frustration. No matter how highly regarded the incoming class, they will still be freshmen, still inexperienced at the collegiate level, still not having any experience playing together as a unit and playing in what should be a greatly improved BE. Not saying I want Pickett and Blair to return or any of the senior graduate transfers, but honestly it is going to be necessary for us to have some experience next year or this could be a true gut punch to the program. How much mediocrity can this program endure before all the past glory has vanished and we are nothing more than a glorified mid-major playing in the BE? Honestly I think we are kidding ourselves thinking we aren’t there. I am friends with many Uconn, Nova, and Providence alums, and they really have no regard for the Georgetown program. In their mind we are really no different than DePaul in the conference currently. We have gone +5 years since making the tournament or being ranked, which can only be said for one other conference team: DePaul. We’ve made it to Friday at MSG one time in the last 8 years. Additionally, from 2010-2015 the tournament flameouts don’t help matters for the narrative. The outside perception of this program is one of an irrelevant former power. No different than say UNLV basketball or Miami U football.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 18, 2021 17:21:34 GMT -5
Well as long as you understand that a fresh start likely means another year of maddening inconsistency and frustration. No matter how highly regarded the incoming class, they will still be freshmen, still inexperienced at the collegiate level, still not having any experience playing together as a unit and playing in what should be a greatly improved BE. Not saying I want Pickett and Blair to return or any of the senior graduate transfers, but honestly it is going to be necessary for us to have some experience next year or this could be a true gut punch to the program. How much mediocrity can this program endure before all the past glory has vanished and we are nothing more than a glorified mid-major playing in the BE? Honestly I think we are kidding ourselves thinking we aren’t there. I am friends with many Uconn, Nova, and Providence alums, and they really have no regard for the Georgetown program. In their mind we are really no different than DePaul in the conference currently. We have gone +5 years since making the tournament or being ranked, which can only be said for one other conference team: DePaul. We’ve made it to Friday at MSG one time in the last 8 years. Additionally, from 2010-2015 the tournament flameouts don’t help matters for perceptions of the program. The outside perception of this program is one of an irrelevant former power. No different than say UNLV basketball or Miami U football. Totally agree - although I'd say UNLV basketball and Miami U football have been more relevant than Georgetown basketball in the last 5 years. It's pretty sad to see what the program has turned into and Ewing hasn't shown anything to suggest he'll lead us out of it. That said, i think he should be allowed to coach Mohammed and the class of 2021 for a year. But if next season is below .500 in the Big East and Mohammed heads to the NBA, not sure why we'd need to stick with Ewing at that point.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 18, 2021 17:41:52 GMT -5
Honestly I think we are kidding ourselves thinking we aren’t there. I am friends with many Uconn, Nova, and Providence alums, and they really have no regard for the Georgetown program. In their mind we are really no different than DePaul in the conference currently. We have gone +5 years since making the tournament or being ranked, which can only be said for one other conference team: DePaul. We’ve made it to Friday at MSG one time in the last 8 years. Additionally, from 2010-2015 the tournament flameouts don’t help matters for perceptions of the program. The outside perception of this program is one of an irrelevant former power. No different than say UNLV basketball or Miami U football. Totally agree - although I'd say UNLV basketball and Miami U football have been more relevant than Georgetown basketball in the last 5 years. It's pretty sad to see what the program has turned into and Ewing hasn't shown anything to suggest he'll lead us out of it. That said, i think he should be allowed to coach Mohammed and the class of 2021 for a year. But if next season is below .500 in the Big East and Mohammed heads to the NBA, not sure why we'd need to stick with Ewing at that point. Sadly you’re right. Though I don’t think UNLV has made a tournament more recently than us, but Miami has been ranked (I think may have been Top 10 at one point this year even). I think this fan base sometimes doesn’t realize how bad these last 5 years have been historically after the program’s 40 year run from say 1975-2015. We missed the tournament 9 times in 40 years. Contrast that to today where we are going on our 6th straight year of missing out.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 18, 2021 17:46:57 GMT -5
No one seems to respond when I ask about his contract. A better question, if we get off to a good start next year, might be whether he should be extended, and, if not then when? As someone else said, I don't think anybody knows. Georgetown is a private university, so all we really find out is the salary via the Form 990. That said, I think this is a unique situation. Let's say you hire a coach for 5 years. Usually, in or at the end of the 4th year the guy either gets an extension, or fired. The reason being is that if you are a 5th year "lame duck" coach, that makes it incredibly hard to recruit, as it will make you appear like you're on your way out. What makes Ewing unique is that even if he is on the last year of his contract, he isn't a "lame duck," in the sense that the university would ideally like to keep him, he is a Georgetown legend, he clearly is not a risk to leave to go coach somewhere else, and most importantly, nobody has any idea how long he has left on his deal, so nobody has reason to worry. On that basis, Georgetown absolutely should not give him a long extension. As it is, the university paid JT3 out two years after he was fired. If the time does come to move on, the university should not waste financial resources giving Ewing a big extension, when there is no justification for doing so at the moment. That makes a lot of sense. All I'd add is the possibility that opposing programs may use Pat's status against him in recruiting if he's on a really short leash. "You want to play for Ewing--don't count on it."
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 18, 2021 18:21:29 GMT -5
In the last 50 years there have been just 21 schools that won the NCAA championship. Nineteen of the 21 have been ranked in the AP Top 25 in the last three years, including nine in 2021 alone.
The only two that have not been ranked in the past three seasons? The same two that haven't been ranked in any of the past six seasons.
Georgetown and UNLV.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 18, 2021 18:34:08 GMT -5
In the last 50 years there have been just 21 schools that won the NCAA championship. Nineteen of the 21 have been ranked in the AP Top 25 in the last three years, including nine in 2021 alone. The only two that have not been ranked in the past three seasons? The same two that haven't been ranked in any of the past six seasons. Georgetown and UNLV. And I’d have to think our basketball budget is 2-3x UNLV’s budget currently.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 18, 2021 19:16:16 GMT -5
And I’d have to think our basketball budget is 2-3x UNLV’s budget currently. 2018-19 public data: Georgetown: $13,573,946 UNLV: $5,795,483
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Post by hsaxon on Jan 18, 2021 19:33:26 GMT -5
My hope is that every senior and grad transfer moves on. I would truly like to see a fresh start next year. Has anyone clarified ever if Carey is just one year or two? Two years of eligibility.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jan 18, 2021 20:39:57 GMT -5
In the last 50 years there have been just 21 schools that won the NCAA championship. Nineteen of the 21 have been ranked in the AP Top 25 in the last three years, including nine in 2021 alone. The only two that have not been ranked in the past three seasons? The same two that haven't been ranked in any of the past six seasons. Georgetown and UNLV. And UNLV is on the up. A new coach (TJ Otzelberger who was at South Dakota State before) has just gotten there and while they started off this season very poorly, they seem to be building momentum now (granted they play tonight) and had a very solid class coming in from what I've seen. Their best players are juniors or below eligibility wise and they have a better NBA prospect on their roster now (Bryce Hamilton) than we do. All this to say, if next year isn't the year this is turned around and we make the Big Dance, Ewing should not be our head coach. And there needs to be a defensive minded assistant on staff next season.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 18, 2021 21:29:41 GMT -5
My hope is that every senior and grad transfer moves on. I would truly like to see a fresh start next year. Has anyone clarified ever if Carey is just one year or two? No confirmation, Georgetown never confirms this kind of thing . It's safe to say he could be back next year if he wanted to be, but there's been speculation that he may be ready to move on after this year. After all he's already got a college degree, presumably after this year he'll have the Darrell Owens/Rodney Pryor et. al 1 year Master's degree, and he's on his 3rd university. Hard to articulate what he'd really gain from another year. He likely wants to pursue a career playing ball overseas, and at a certain point it probably just makes sense to start on that journey. Unless he has some specific academic or career aspiration that would really benefit from another year of graduate work (seems unlikely), I'd guess he looks to play internationally next year. I may be in the minority, but I'd be happy to have him as a veteran presence on next year's squad. For the long term it'd be better to have those minutes going to, say, Tyler Beard or Jordan Riley, but given that next year is such a do-or-die year for the program I'd be happy to have at least one player with experience in the back court--whether that's Carey or a grad transfer. If Berger or Clark shows out between now and the end of the year I reserve the right to change my mind on this I think this fan base sometimes doesn’t realize how bad these last 5 years have been historically after the program’s 40 year run from say 1975-2015. I think this is accurate, but wanted to highlight it because it's also so central to the problems with the program itself. There are a staggering number of people close to this program who don't even seem to realize how far we've fallen. They still view the program through the prism of the 1980s, Hoya Paranoia, Rough Tough & Terrific, starter jackets, the Sweater Game, "that wouldn't have been a foul in the old Big East", etc. etc. Sure, they realize that the team hasn't had a great record the last few years, but they view that as something that's eventually going to get straightened out for a program that is obviously a national titan. They don't realize that there's not one but now multiple generations of people who have no recollection of that period at all. To a millenial or a Gen Z-er (like the ones being recruited now) that stuff is as ancient as Dr. Naismith hanging a peach basket. Don't get me wrong, it's nice that for many Boomer and even Gen X basketball fans Georgetown evokes warm fuzzy memories (or anger, depending on what side they were on). But for those born in the 80s (they may remember Iverson or the big men in the NBA, but don't likely remember us being a serious title contender at the college level), 90s, 2000s, or 2010s, they have no recollection of that. One Jeff Green run to the Final 4 14 years ago doesn't change the perception. People born in those decades remember us more for getting dunked out of the building by a 15 seed--if they remember us at all. Here's the issue though--literally everybody in power at Georgetown falls into the first group, the group that still sees Georgetown basketball as it was in the glory years. They all came of age at a time when JT2 and Georgetown were larger than life, and it's ingrained in their minds that that's what Georgetown Basketball is. I'm talking about the head coach, all 3 assistant coaches, the Director of Basketball Operations, the Athletic Director and even the University president. I think all would say they are not happy with the results of the last few years, but I'm really skeptical that any of them truly realize how far we've moved in the direction of becoming the worst thing that any program can become--irrelevant. It's incomprehensible to them based on how enormous the Georgetown Basketball brand was to them in their formative years, but sadly it's reality for a huge (and growing) percentage of the population.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 18, 2021 21:35:03 GMT -5
Has anyone clarified ever if Carey is just one year or two? No confirmation, Georgetown never confirms this kind of thing . It's safe to say he could be back next year if he wanted to be, but there's been speculation that he may be ready to move on after this year. After all he's already got a college degree, presumably after this year he'll have the Darrell Owens/Rodney Pryor et. al 1 year Master's degree, and he's on his 3rd university. Hard to articulate what he'd really gain from another year. He likely wants to pursue a career playing ball overseas, and at a certain point it probably just makes sense to start on that journey. Unless he has some specific academic or career aspiration that would really benefit from another year of graduate work (seems unlikely), I'd guess he looks to play internationally next year. I may be in the minority, but I'd be happy to have him as a veteran presence on next year's squad. For the long term it'd be better to have those minutes going to, say, Tyler Beard or Jordan Riley, but given that next year is such a do-or-die year for the program I'd be happy to have at least one player with experience in the back court--whether that's Carey or a grad transfer. If Berger or Clark shows out between now and the end of the year I reserve the right to change my mind on this I think this fan base sometimes doesn’t realize how bad these last 5 years have been historically after the program’s 40 year run from say 1975-2015. I think this is accurate, but wanted to highlight it because it's also so central to the problems with the program itself. There are a staggering number of people close to this program who don't even seem to realize how far we've fallen. They still view the program through the prism of the 1980s, Hoya Paranoia, Rough Tough & Terrific, starter jackets, the Sweater Game, "that wouldn't have been a foul in the old Big East", etc. etc. Sure, they realize that the team hasn't had a great record the last few years, but they view that as something that's eventually going to get straightened out for a program that is obviously a national titan. They don't realize that there's not one but now multiple generations of people who have no recollection of that period at all. To a millenial or a Gen Z-er (like the ones being recruited now) that stuff is as ancient as Dr. Naismith hanging a peach basket. Don't get me wrong, it's nice that for many Boomer and even Gen X basketball fans Georgetown evokes warm fuzzy memories (or anger, depending on what side they were on). But for those born in the 80s (they may remember Iverson or the big men in the NBA, but don't likely remember us being a serious title contender at the college level), 90s, 2000s, or 2010s, they have no recollection of that. One Jeff Green run to the Final 4 14 years ago doesn't change the perception. People born in those decades remember us more for getting dunked out of the building by a 15 seed--if they remember us at all. Here's the issue though--literally everybody in power at Georgetown falls into the first group, the group that still sees Georgetown basketball as it was in the glory years. They all came of age at a time when JT2 and Georgetown were larger than life, and it's ingrained in their minds that that's what Georgetown Basketball is. I'm talking about the head coach, all 3 assistant coaches, the Director of Basketball Operations, the Athletic Director and even the University president. I think all would say they are not happy with the results of the last few years, but I'm really skeptical that any of them truly realize how far we've moved in the direction of becoming the worst thing that any program can become--irrelevant. It's incomprehensible to them based on how enormous the Georgetown Basketball brand was to them in their formative years, but sadly it's reality for a huge (and growing) percentage of the population. ^^^^^ This
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hoyas212
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Post by hoyas212 on Jan 18, 2021 23:21:45 GMT -5
At some point, the poor on court results will need to be a big consideration in terms of keeping Ewing or not. Most seem to concur that that point won't be coming before the end of the '22-'23 season. To have any confidence that this isn't destined for an eventual painful parting, I'd want to see close to wholesale staff changes this offseason. Assuming there is an end of season media availability session, I'd like to hear at least tacit acknowledgment of schematic shortcomings, particularly in defending 3 point shots. Would also like to hear a sense of accountability that has been absent from all post game press conferences. Anything to the effect of "we just need to keep working" would make me very bearish on the chances of making a NCAA tournament in Patrick's first 6 seasons. If there's no tournament appearance by '23, it would be hard to justify this continuing barring something like Bronny James coming in the next season. While not iconic figures like Ewing, Esherick and Thompson III had close ties to the University and were dismissed due to stretches of futility shorter than what's already occurred.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Jan 18, 2021 23:29:39 GMT -5
At some point, the poor on court results will need to be a big consideration in terms of keeping Ewing or not. Most seem to concur that that point won't be coming before the end of the '22-'23 season. To have any confidence that this isn't destined for an eventual painful parting, I'd want to see close to wholesale staff changes this offseason. Assuming there is an end of season media availability session, I'd like to hear at least tacit acknowledgment of schematic shortcomings, particularly in defending 3 point shots. Would also like to hear a sense of accountability that has been absent from all post game press conferences. Anything to the effect of "we just need to keep working" would make me very bearish on the chances of making a NCAA tournament in Patrick's first 6 seasons. If there's no tournament appearance by '23, it would be hard to justify this continuing barring something like Bronny James coming in the next season. While not iconic figures like Ewing, Esherick and Thompson III had close ties to the University and were dismissed due to stretches of futility shorter than what's already occurred. Everything here except this point should be next season, barring something drastic. Whether that's guys improving so much and a bad committee decision, injuries, or something else that I can't imagine, I think that point needs to be next season. We bring in a great class and the one we took this year was a building block to that season. That season should be make or break.
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Post by teddy2016 on Jan 19, 2021 11:47:55 GMT -5
it's been pointed out that the leadership at GU responsible for the basketball program are too far connected with our past. I agree. so much so that they don't have a vision for the future. that's whats concerning. its not so much whether Ewing should be extended or not - it's look at who's making the decisions. what criteria do they use. if they feel we need to move in a different direction in 2 years - hiring Ewing would have been a clear mistake. that's bad enough - but, what possible comfort can be drawn from past experience? why would this same collection of individuals (Including DeGoia) make the right decision in near future? I have zero confidence in that. we need outside input in making that decision (being in the family is not one of the criteria, but wanting the position is - Pat even admitted he wasn't sure he wanted the job initially - OMG). Forming a Special committee of independent Trustees, Search Firm, other outside experts - establish objectives, create a plan, describe the individual needed and his experience and capabilities- etc.., We would be in essence completely rebuilding the program a 100% reboot.That would be an important step to enact (ie., formation of indep committee)- would the BOT take the initiative? Do they realize just how necessary that is? Questionable in my mind when I look at our recent past and who'd be involved. ewing is in his late 50's now - with no track record of success as a HC. one way or another, GU is on the clock unless we are a top BE team next year. our program hinges on pat's ability to integrate and develop many young new faces into a tight on/off the court group that will function at a high level in '21-22 season. it appeared he had done exactly that in the Fall of '19 (when mcclung, akinjo and LeBlanc were sophomores). then the wheels came off. For whatever reasons, the group he chose to assemble was dysfunctional. I do really hope he succeeds this time.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jan 19, 2021 12:49:36 GMT -5
We need to make the Dance next year, or come dam close. Folks , we seem to have forgotten that just making the tournament is not all that hard! No excuses, about being young, transfers out, etc. etc. Plenty of young teams make the tourney and even win some games in it. And I agree that a defensive minded assistant added to the staff sure couldn't hurt. Its kind of obvious that doing the same things and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 19, 2021 13:12:12 GMT -5
Doom and gloom. Doom and gloom. You would think our program had the death penalty, buried with sanctions.
Ewing was on track to get the program back on it's feet going into year 3. Things happened that caused a major setback. Now we are back to square one again.
People laud next year's recruiting class, so it looks like Ewing is aware of the problem and is attempting to fix it.
But, but, but, Danny Hurley. Yep, his team looked great against St. John's yesterday. Blew a lead and everything. I thought only Ewing blew leads?
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Post by practice on Jan 19, 2021 14:07:50 GMT -5
And I’d have to think our basketball budget is 2-3x UNLV’s budget currently. 2018-19 public data: Georgetown: $13,573,946 UNLV: $5,795,483 DFW -- do we know whether or not any of the GU's incredible men's basketball budget is a pass through from the Capitol One Center -- like rent payments that are offset by revenue from the games themselves? $13.5M is a lot of money!
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