mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
|
Post by mdtd on Jan 19, 2021 15:20:51 GMT -5
Doom and gloom. Doom and gloom. You would think our program had the death penalty, buried with sanctions. Ewing was on track to get the program back on it's feet going into year 3. Things happened that caused a major setback. Now we are back to square one again. People laud next year's recruiting class, so it looks like Ewing is aware of the problem and is attempting to fix it. But, but, but, Danny Hurley. Yep, his team looked great against St. John's yesterday. Blew a lead and everything. I thought only Ewing blew leads? I have no idea what your take is here. They were without their best player (and maybe the best player in our league) in James Bouknight and are ranked now. They have a ranked team and we are the worst team in our conference (aside from maybe the Dave Leitao's). We consistently blow leads, not just one game without one of the best players in the league where the biggest second half lead was 8, and biggest overall lead was 10. I don't understand the argument that we were going to have success in year three. We weren't great with the full roster and weren't tourney bound. The team just wasn't clicking. There was a lot of time left (again which is why I think if we look at that season from this POV it's an incomplete), but we we needed a lot of help for our resume. Who knows if our full roster wins the next three games. Who knows what happens if Mac and Omer stay healthy.
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 19, 2021 16:29:59 GMT -5
But you give Hurley the benefit of the doubt and justified why his team lost. Yet, Ewing is just a bad coach.
Nor did you give credit to Mike Anderson, a proven, veteran coach, the credit for outcoaching Hurley.
|
|
|
Post by augustusfinknottle on Jan 19, 2021 16:51:48 GMT -5
A distinction should be drawn between what record justifies keeping him in the minds of the fanbase at large versus the minds of those who would make such a decision. Is it fair to say that Georgetown, in all sports, is slower to jettison coaches, especially those with strong ties, than most schools? The phrase 'benign neglect" comes to mind.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 19, 2021 17:12:21 GMT -5
Doom and gloom. Doom and gloom. You would think our program had the death penalty, buried with sanctions. Ewing was on track to get the program back on it's feet going into year 3. Things happened that caused a major setback. Now we are back to square one again. People laud next year's recruiting class, so it looks like Ewing is aware of the problem and is attempting to fix it. But, but, but, Danny Hurley. Yep, his team looked great against St. John's yesterday. Blew a lead and everything. I thought only Ewing blew leads? While I think there is a more optimistic case to be made, this is not it. I think this is emblematic of the concept someone else floated earlier, which is that I think a lot of fans and people associated with the program do not see how far we have fallen because they see Ewing, they remember the 1980s and 1990s, and gives a false sense of where we are. What is also missing from your argument above is that using either the eye-test or statistics, there is no basis on which to believe that Ewing is going to get the program back on track. Sure, we may have been better off without all the defections last year (and certainly would be this year, had they never happened), but it's not like we were a top 25 team that got knocked off the pedestal because everybody left (and instead lost to UNC Greensboro). We still had an awful defense with those guys. Ewing getting the good recruiting class for 2021 is likely going to save his job for next year. Beyond that, I am not sure. If Ewing truly cannot coach a top 100 defense, it won't matter if he has a 5 star player because one guy is not going to be enough to compete for a tournament bid without improvement elsewhere.
|
|
mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
|
Post by mdtd on Jan 19, 2021 17:15:08 GMT -5
But you give Hurley the benefit of the doubt and justified why his team lost. Yet, Ewing is just a bad coach. Nor did you give credit to Mike Anderson, a proven, veteran coach, the credit for outcoaching Hurley. None of this was about Mike Anderson. He's a very solid coach. His guys have gotten a ton better under him and Posh Alexander will be a stud in a couple years. Champagnie is an absolute beast. But, none of this related to your point. I don't understand what your point is. I wasn't paying a ton of attention to that game until the last about five minutes, but then the Johnnies looked like the better team. Ewing has done a bad job record wise. He came into a tough situation and it hasn't turned around yet. Year 5 is the time to turn everything around. But he's done a bad job in certain elements since our defense still stinks, it was better in the last couple games, but having the 111th ranked defense is pathetic. He's made some very questionable in game coaching decisions and we've consistently blown leads. At the same time, this team has a talent deficiency relative to all other Power Six teams (I don't understand how there are people who said we were underrated talent wise pre-season, yet use this argument because it's not like the guys were less talented than when they got here, but I don't know who made this argument originally nor do I care to look back), and he brings in an excellent class, which is as good as if not better than I could have asked for. That's why next year is the year. He needs to play the young guys more (no idea how you dispute this, and I don't forget that you ignored my Sibley question multiple times), and we need to improve our defense schematically and show some more potential for next season. Our team has been bad the last few years. Some of that has to be on the man in charge. I'm citing the entire body of work, while you are citing one game for why Hurley is a bad coach, even though again, he has a Top 25 team and lost one game without his best player. I don't understand your argument at all. I think these are two very different things.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,478
|
Post by hoyaboya on Jan 19, 2021 20:07:50 GMT -5
But you give Hurley the benefit of the doubt and justified why his team lost. Yet, Ewing is just a bad coach. Nor did you give credit to Mike Anderson, a proven, veteran coach, the credit for outcoaching Hurley. I think it’s safe to say that both Hurley and Anderson are better coaches than Ewing. And both were available when Ewing was hired and we could have gotten them for less money than we’re paying Ewing. But besides that, Ewing was a brilliant hire...
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 19, 2021 20:16:34 GMT -5
But you give Hurley the benefit of the doubt and justified why his team lost. Yet, Ewing is just a bad coach. Nor did you give credit to Mike Anderson, a proven, veteran coach, the credit for outcoaching Hurley. I think it’s safe to say that both Hurley and Anderson are better coaches than Ewing. And both were available when Ewing was hired and we could have gotten them for less money than we’re paying Ewing. But besides that, Ewing was a brilliant hire... They both had experience as college coaches while Ewing was a veteran assistant from the NBA. How much Ewing gets paid is his business, not mine.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 19, 2021 20:35:25 GMT -5
I think it’s safe to say that both Hurley and Anderson are better coaches than Ewing. And both were available when Ewing was hired and we could have gotten them for less money than we’re paying Ewing. But besides that, Ewing was a brilliant hire... They both had experience as college coaches while Ewing was a veteran assistant from the NBA. How much Ewing gets paid is his business, not mine. If you’re hiring a college basketball head coach, which do you prefer: (1) college basketball head coaching experiece or (2) NBA assistant coach experience?
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 19, 2021 20:38:11 GMT -5
Don't really care. Our legendary, Hall of Fame coach was a high school coach when he was hired, so go figure.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 19, 2021 20:52:26 GMT -5
DFW -- do we know whether or not any of the GU's incredible men's basketball budget is a pass through from the Capitol One Center -- like rent payments that are offset by revenue from the games themselves? $13.5M is a lot of money! It's an interesting topic because there is no publicly disclosed information on Capital One Arena rental costs, only clues. I do not claim to have any inside information but am simply sharing some clues about the process, namely, it's a very expensive place to play basketball. First, it's not a pass-through cost. The cost of Capital One Arena rental is not an add-on to the ticket price as it is at some schools. For example, Louisville's deal with the KFC Yum Center is 10% of the ticket price as the "rent". But Louisville also makes 88% on every suite rental and splits it 50/50 with the arena authority on concessions, so maybe it's no surprise that Louisville basketball is a cash cow--in 2018-19 it reported $42 million in basketball revenues (versus $47 million in football, which draws three times as many). Averaging 16,658 a game (6th nationally) brings in a lot of revenue and they sell all the suites and lots of concessions. Creighton also has this kind of deal and it works well for them, but not as much as Louisville, which was forced by the Commonwealth of Kentucky to give the arena authority a $2.5 million annual giveback to help with debt service because the contract is so one-sided. What does Louisville and Creighton have in common? For one thing, they are the major tenants in their building and can command favorable terms. Georgetown is not that tenant. Georgetown has no say in suites or concessions, and certainly doesn't share in parking, either. Most Big East teams that play off campus appear to be on a flat rental basis: they buy the entire arena on a per day basis. Great if you can fill it, but trouble if you can't. For example, former PC president Brian Shanley O.P. told the Providence Journal in 2018 that PC paid $625,000 to the Rhode Island Convention Center Authority, who manages the Dunkin Donuts Center (nee Providence Civic Center) for 18 home games, which comes out to about $35,000 a game, plus a $2/ticket surcharge for debt service. But remember, they're the lead tenant. On the far end of the scale is Madison Square Garden. In a 2020 regulatory filing the Big East reported that it rented the Garden for the week for the tournament and paid $2.4 million. That's over $300K a night, which is probably why you don't see Fordham or Manhattan playing there anymore. Concerts (many of whom charge $100 or more a ticket) can cover that with ease. If St. John's can get 17,000 in the building, that's roughly $20 a head for the privilege but they make up the rest. Draw 5,000, and you know the result. Again, Georgetown has never disclosed its "rent" and likely never will. But does Ted Leonsis price the Capital One Arena lease like an arena in Providence built in 1972, or a best-in-class pro destination like the Garden? My guess, and remember it's only that, is that its closer to (but certainly not as expensive as) MSG. If Georgetown is selling out the building, everyone wins. If announced crowds of 4,789 are showing up, Georgetown is eating those losses in the men's basketball budget--with no suite revenue or concessions as a hedge. And because Georgetown never gave itself a "Plan B" (e.g., an on-campus option) its suitable options are very limited--literally, the only area arenas that meet Big East minimums are Capital One, Xfinity Center (Univ. of Maryland), or EagleBank Arena (George Mason).
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 19, 2021 20:57:49 GMT -5
Does Ted give G-town a discount since he is an alum?
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 19, 2021 21:08:07 GMT -5
Don't really care. Our legendary, Hall of Fame coach was a high school coach when he was hired, so go figure. Yes, college basketball back then was very similar to what it is now... go figure...
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 19, 2021 21:10:37 GMT -5
Don't really care. Our legendary, Hall of Fame coach was a high school coach when he was hired, so go figure. Yes, college basketball back then was very similar to what it is now... go figure... Yeah, the talent in college basketball back then was much weaker than it is today. Go figure.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 19, 2021 21:14:18 GMT -5
Yes, college basketball back then was very similar to what it is now... go figure... Yeah, the talent in college basketball back then was much weaker than it is today. Go figure. Same kind of money too? Go figure.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,383
|
Post by SSHoya on Jan 19, 2021 22:05:05 GMT -5
Does Ted give G-town a discount since he is an alum? In a word, no. The CFO of Monumental Sports & Entertainment is an alum, class of '79. My understanding is that no break is given.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,328
|
Post by tashoya on Jan 19, 2021 23:29:51 GMT -5
There's an unintended optimism inherent in this thread that assumes we'll see some sense of normalcy a year from now. I'm not in the camp that has optimism that that will be the case. In uncertain and tumultuous times, I think Patrick gets even more leeway (which would be substantial, regardless) than he otherwise would. As such, while I understand the posts here, I believe them to be premature.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 20, 2021 6:18:42 GMT -5
Realistically, a 8th or 9th place finish in the league with a young team will feel like a step up next year. No guarantee though. The year after, you hope we can work our way up to the middle, say 5th or 6th in the conference. I don’t see us vying for a BE title or going on a deep NCAA run in our immediate future. You hope that this year is rock bottom. A wildcard is always a key grad transfer the caliber of a Rodney Pryor who can raise your trajectory, albeit for a year.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 20, 2021 9:33:16 GMT -5
Realistically, a 8th or 9th place finish in the league with a young team will feel like a step up next year. No guarantee though. The year after, you hope we can work our way up to the middle, say 5th or 6th in the conference. I don’t see us vying for a BE title or going on a deep NCAA run in our immediate future. You hope that this year is rock bottom. A wildcard is always a key grad transfer the caliber of a Rodney Pryor who can raise your trajectory, albeit for a year. It's a young team, but there are a lot of returning guys, and freshman to sophomore year is most often when guys make a jump in talent. To me, 8-9th, without any indication that the defensive scheme has improved, will be a failure and likely deserve dismissal, unless Ewing lands another good recruiting class for the following year. Another metric is, has the team improved over the course of the year? Ewing's teams really haven't shown much progress in that way, so that's another thing I would look for.
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 20, 2021 9:53:42 GMT -5
DFW -- do we know whether or not any of the GU's incredible men's basketball budget is a pass through from the Capitol One Center -- like rent payments that are offset by revenue from the games themselves? $13.5M is a lot of money! It's an interesting topic because there is no publicly disclosed information on Capital One Arena rental costs, only clues. I do not claim to have any inside information but am simply sharing some clues about the process, namely, it's a very expensive place to play basketball. First, it's not a pass-through cost. The cost of Capital One Arena rental is not an add-on to the ticket price as it is at some schools. For example, Louisville's deal with the KFC Yum Center is 10% of the ticket price as the "rent". But Louisville also makes 88% on every suite rental and splits it 50/50 with the arena authority on concessions, so maybe it's no surprise that Louisville basketball is a cash cow--in 2018-19 it reported $42 million in basketball revenues (versus $47 million in football, which draws three times as many). Averaging 16,658 a game (6th nationally) brings in a lot of revenue and they sell all the suites and lots of concessions. Creighton also has this kind of deal and it works well for them, but not as much as Louisville, which was forced by the Commonwealth of Kentucky to give the arena authority a $2.5 million annual giveback to help with debt service because the contract is so one-sided. What does Louisville and Creighton have in common? For one thing, they are the major tenants in their building and can command favorable terms. Georgetown is not that tenant. Georgetown has no say in suites or concessions, and certainly doesn't share in parking, either. Most Big East teams that play off campus appear to be on a flat rental basis: they buy the entire arena on a per day basis. Great if you can fill it, but trouble if you can't. For example, former PC president Brian Shanley O.P. told the Providence Journal in 2018 that PC paid $625,000 to the Rhode Island Convention Center Authority, who manages the Dunkin Donuts Center (nee Providence Civic Center) for 18 home games, which comes out to about $35,000 a game, plus a $2/ticket surcharge for debt service. But remember, they're the lead tenant. On the far end of the scale is Madison Square Garden. In a 2020 regulatory filing the Big East reported that it rented the Garden for the week for the tournament and paid $2.4 million. That's over $300K a night, which is probably why you don't see Fordham or Manhattan playing there anymore. Concerts (many of whom charge $100 or more a ticket) can cover that with ease. If St. John's can get 17,000 in the building, that's roughly $20 a head for the privilege but they make up the rest. Draw 5,000, and you know the result. Again, Georgetown has never disclosed its "rent" and likely never will. But does Ted Leonsis price the Capital One Arena lease like an arena in Providence built in 1972, or a best-in-class pro destination like the Garden? My guess, and remember it's only that, is that its closer to (but certainly not as expensive as) MSG. If Georgetown is selling out the building, everyone wins. If announced crowds of 4,789 are showing up, Georgetown is eating those losses in the men's basketball budget--with no suite revenue or concessions as a hedge. And because Georgetown never gave itself a "Plan B" (e.g., an on-campus option) its suitable options are very limited--literally, the only area arenas that meet Big East minimums are Capital One, Xfinity Center (Univ. of Maryland), or EagleBank Arena (George Mason). THe other thing Creighton & Louisville have going for them is they are the only game in town. They are essentially pro franchises in mid-sized cities. Gtown is one of many entertainment options in the area. It's why the non-Gtown alum is critical to Gtown attendance success and why winning is the only cure. It would be great to dream of an on-campus option but that is probably closer to the year 2100 then the year 2021 of happening. We just gotta win on the court. The southeast Mystics arena would be interesting but lack of metro access and it's further from campus. The McD retrofit is the only viable long term option.
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 20, 2021 10:12:20 GMT -5
There's an unintended optimism inherent in this thread that assumes we'll see some sense of normalcy a year from now. I'm not in the camp that has optimism that that will be the case. In uncertain and tumultuous times, I think Patrick gets even more leeway (which would be substantial, regardless) than he otherwise would. As such, while I understand the posts here, I believe them to be premature. Banking on recruits who haven't played a minute of college basketball to turn things around is a big gamble. There are no juniors on this team this year. They all left. Two of our top 3 leading scorers from this year will be gone next year. We'll have no seniors next year. Q,Tim, and Malcolm the only juniors for next year. Unless these incoming recruits are Kentucky, Duke level talent ready to make the jump to the NBA within a year, it is a going to be another work in progress. Those who are already want Ewing gone, will have more ammo. He probably has 2 more years left to turn things around, unless everything bottoms out again next year.
|
|