the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 16, 2021 15:09:53 GMT -5
JT2 was honest about being biased, directly or indirectly. He did the same on his radio show. He would defend those who he cared about on his radio show even when they were in the wrong about things (Iverson, Broadus). Not defending their actions or errors, but defending them as his friend/loved one.
Deep down, he knew the decision was justified, but spoke to the larger problem of competing against people with an uneven playing field. You are doing the right thing but losing to some who are breaking the rules, yet you are punished. They vacate wins, but don't vacate losses as he would say.
III did have a good body of work at G-town for the majority of career. Big East championships, Final Four, Sweet Sixteen, put guys into the NBA, no scandals. However, it is what have you done for me lately business.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Jan 16, 2021 15:56:08 GMT -5
JT2 was honest about being biased, directly or indirectly. He did the same on his radio show. He would defend those who he cared about on his radio show even when they were in the wrong about things (Iverson, Broadus). Not defending their actions or errors, but defending them as his friend/loved one. Deep down, he knew the decision was justified, but spoke to the larger problem of competing against people with an uneven playing field. You are doing the right thing but losing to some who are breaking the rules, yet you are punished. They vacate wins, but don't vacate losses as he would say. III did have a good body of work at G-town for the majority of career. Big East championships, Final Four, Sweet Sixteen, put guys into the NBA, no scandals. However, it is what have you done for me lately business. An area where racism is still rampant yet nobody wants to talk about or address the issue is coaching in college basketball. If you are an African American coach the NCAA will show you the door for a bunch of minor infractions. (Kevin Ollie). Meanwhile guys like White Privilege Will Wade and Sean Miller can do whatever they want. Pay players, no problem. This puts the minority coach at a disadvantage against the white coach since they can't cheat while the white coach can cheat all they want and get the best recruits. Not to mention that NCAA basketball doesn't have enough minority coaches. D1 basketball has 53% African Americans players, and I'm sure the number of minorities is much higher when you include all the international players. "Of the 104 players that were named first, second or third-team all-conference in the sport’s seven biggest leagues last season — the ACC, American, Big 12, Big East, Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC — 87 of them were black, or 83.7 percent. Of the 15 players that were named All-Americans last year, 13 — or 86.7 percent — were black." "There are 353 Division I men’s basketball programs, and just 103 of them — or 29.2 percent — have black head coaches. When HBCUs are taken out of the equation, the number falls to 24.1 percent. In the sport’s Big Seven conferences, that number is 22.9 percent. Half of the head coaches in the Big East and the American are black, so when looking at just the Power Five leagues, the number is a paltry 13.8 percent. The Pac-12 does not have a single black head coach. The only black head coach in the Big Ten is Michigan’s Juwan Howard, who was hired in May after John Beilein left for the Cleveland Cavaliers." collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/03/its-very-disappointing-the-number-of-black-head-coaches-continues-to-fall-at-college-hoops-highest-level/
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,966
|
Post by EtomicB on Jan 16, 2021 16:19:11 GMT -5
JT2 was honest about being biased, directly or indirectly. He did the same on his radio show. He would defend those who he cared about on his radio show even when they were in the wrong about things (Iverson, Broadus). Not defending their actions or errors, but defending them as his friend/loved one. Deep down, he knew the decision was justified, but spoke to the larger problem of competing against people with an uneven playing field. You are doing the right thing but losing to some who are breaking the rules, yet you are punished. They vacate wins, but don't vacate losses as he would say. III did have a good body of work at G-town for the majority of career. Big East championships, Final Four, Sweet Sixteen, put guys into the NBA, no scandals. However, it is what have you done for me lately business. An area where racism is still rampant yet nobody wants to talk about or address the issue is coaching in college basketball. If you are an African American coach the NCAA will show you the door for a bunch of minor infractions. (Kevin Ollie). Meanwhile guys like White Privilege Will Wade and Sean Miller can do whatever they want. Pay players, no problem. This puts the minority coach at a disadvantage against the white coach since they can't cheat while the white coach can cheat all they want and get the best recruits. Not to mention that NCAA basketball doesn't have enough minority coaches. D1 basketball has 53% African Americans players, and I'm sure the number of minorities is much higher when you include all the international players. "Of the 104 players that were named first, second or third-team all-conference in the sport’s seven biggest leagues last season — the ACC, American, Big 12, Big East, Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC — 87 of them were black, or 83.7 percent. Of the 15 players that were named All-Americans last year, 13 — or 86.7 percent — were black." "There are 353 Division I men’s basketball programs, and just 103 of them — or 29.2 percent — have black head coaches. When HBCUs are taken out of the equation, the number falls to 24.1 percent. In the sport’s Big Seven conferences, that number is 22.9 percent. Half of the head coaches in the Big East and the American are black, so when looking at just the Power Five leagues, the number is a paltry 13.8 percent. The Pac-12 does not have a single black head coach. The only black head coach in the Big Ten is Michigan’s Juwan Howard, who was hired in May after John Beilein left for the Cleveland Cavaliers." collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/03/its-very-disappointing-the-number-of-black-head-coaches-continues-to-fall-at-college-hoops-highest-level/The NCAA doesn't show anyone the door schools do that... Kevin Ollie was fired because his team finished below .500 two years in a row if either Miller or Wade do that I'd bet a lot of money they'd be fired also... I'm with you on the lack of black coaches at P5 schools though, race does factor into this point a lot...
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,781
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 16, 2021 19:34:33 GMT -5
If you are an African American coach the NCAA will show you the door for a bunch of minor infractions. (Kevin Ollie). Meanwhile guys like White Privilege Will Wade and Sean Miller can do whatever they want. Pay players, no problem. This puts the minority coach at a disadvantage against the white coach since they can't cheat while the white coach can cheat all they want and get the best recruits. Not to mention that NCAA basketball doesn't have enough minority coaches. D1 basketball has 53% African Americans players, and I'm sure the number of minorities is much higher when you include all the international players. Kevin Ollie is not the case to stake this claim. He was found guilty of numerous violations and while that alone would not have led to him getting a show cause order, he lied to the NCAA committee and his counsel would not agree to a second appearance before the committee until Ollie got a financial settlement from UConn. The charges as identified by the NCAA committee were listed as: Multiple Level I violations by the [head coach]; Unethical conduct and failure to cooperate; Persons of authority condoned, participated in or negligently disregarded the violation or related wrongful conduct; Pattern of noncompliance within the sports program; and Intentional, willful or blatant disregard for the NCAA constitution and bylaws. That has nothing to do with him being black and everything to do with a pattern of evasion that the NCAA has no choice but to call him out on. And for the record, the NCAA does not make these decisions by fiat. In Ollie's case, there was a committee of current and former Division I administrators and coaches which volunteered to sit on the case which included the President of the University of Georgia, the former head women's basketball coach of the University of Texas, the former vice president of Iowa State University, the former athletic director at the University of Minnesota, the current president of the University of Akron, a former FBI general counsel, and the athletic director at IUPUI. The report weighed in at 41 pages. ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/infractions/decisions/Jul2019D1INF_UConnecticutPublicDecision.pdf
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Jan 16, 2021 22:31:16 GMT -5
I just finished it and I'm of two minds here : Positive : - it was fantastic to read his thoughts and his recollections on a lot of things that I don't think I've ever read about or that he's ever shared. The part about Rayful Edmonds, or his time with the Celtics and Red Auerbach were great reads - it was great reading about his upbringing and how it affected how he saw the world Negative : - there's an absolute inability to admit he made a mistake in instances like the slot machine thing in 1996, and a lot of stuff gets justified on shaky rationale - as a history of his time at Georgetown, the Leonard Shapiro book is way better and more even handed Who was the Dunbar player referenced that went to the California JuCo and got sent home on a bus? It read like that happened in the 90's. See below--Adminwww.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1979/08/18/gu-loses-basketball-recruit/ea23d219-5589-4c6b-a63f-5f20280c3d85/
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Jan 17, 2021 15:37:27 GMT -5
Again, in the book he admits his biases and reasons why he backed certain things because of those biases. Backing those situations because of how they would work to his benefit. He was upfront about it. We may not agree with it, but he at least told you upfront about it. Don't really see that as a negative. A negative would be someone pretending to be something they are not.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Jan 17, 2021 16:07:20 GMT -5
Again, in the book he admits his biases and reasons why he backed certain things because of those biases. Backing those situations because of how they would work to his benefit. He was upfront about it. We may not agree with it, but he at least told you upfront about it. Don't really see that as a negative. A negative would be someone pretending to be something they are not. If it doesn't bother you that's fine, but my opinion is that he's an unreliable narrator in quite a few places in the book (Nadav Henefeld for instance).
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
|
Post by blueandgray on Jan 20, 2021 10:52:44 GMT -5
TC...can you elaborate on your Henefeld point? Are you suggesting that the slurs did happen and Thompson (and Calhoun for that matter) tried to sweep it under the rug?
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,332
|
Post by tashoya on Jan 20, 2021 10:57:07 GMT -5
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Jan 20, 2021 11:39:12 GMT -5
TC...can you elaborate on your Henefeld point? Are you suggesting that the slurs did happen and Thompson (and Calhoun for that matter) tried to sweep it under the rug? My point was what was alleged to have been said at the time wasn't what Thompson/Washington put in the book. They sanitized the accusation. I don't want to start a debate whether or not it happened - the incident is on videotape, it was broadcast on network TV, it was played over and over again on ESPN and Connecticut news a week after the game like the Zapruder film, I'm sure you can find it on YouTube. People can make their own judgement.
|
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,486
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 28, 2021 14:01:16 GMT -5
Very frank book. I haven't finished yet (at the chapter Patrick), as I am savoring the read (plus I am a slow reader). Some comments for the chapters up to Patrick. JTII had a similar early background to mine, expect mine didn't have the racism that Coach experienced. We both grew up with the PBC (Police Boys Club). We both played stickball, which we did mostly in the street. Etc.
His comments on Pebbles, yes and no. I can see that he might have been embarrassed with Pebbles. But we treated him like a Georgetown icon, especially those who hung out in McD. Coach was right about how big Pebbles hands were. And we took to calling him All-American Raymond Medley; I am not sure what athletic feat he did to impress us (the mind fades after so many years). I also remember his dancing with my date at one of the dances in McD.
I enjoy his comments that nobody got into his practices. Well, I did in Las Vegas. In 1980 Georgetown was in town to play UNLV at the old Las Vegas Convention Center Rotunda. I took my six month old son to the convention center. I hadn't seen the Hoyas play in person since the 1970 NIT game vs LSU. So I approach AD Rienzo and asked if I could peak at their practice for a couple of minutes. So apparently Mr. Rienzo went over to Coach and when he came back he allowed us in for about five minutes. The rest of the story was that the Hoyas beat UNLV in the last UNLV game at the Rotunda, so Coach closed both Manley Field House and the LV Convention Center Rotunda with wins. One of our students at our lab was a UNLV cheerleader, so I was able to lord it over her.
|
|
SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
|
Post by SirSaxa on Feb 16, 2021 19:59:25 GMT -5
JT's book is a treasure for any Hoya fan. There is so much backstory that I was unaware of at the time of some crucial events in JT's time on the hilltop. My perspective on Hoya Hoops includes being one of a very small number of folks who were at the first game he coached for GU, a win over St. Francis at McDonough in Nov. '72, and his last - a loss to Seton Hall at the Meadowlands in 1999. What he accomplished during his time at GU is truly incredible, especially given the odds against him. His commitment to kids getting an education and graduating were real and admirable.
His life pre-GU, and pre-basketball were a revelation. I did not know the extent of the racism he faced in his early life and the impact it had on his famil, yet he still had many close white friends, and colleagues.
This is JT's book. Of course it relates stories from his POV, and we all know that every story looks different from various perspectives. But reading how JT remembers them? Interpreted them? Very valuable insights. I thoroughly enjoyed reading all the stories. Georgetown is a different place because of his presence and contributions, and far better off overall. I think we all know JT was not universally liked, but I think he was close to universally respected - and deservedly so. Great coach and a principled man. If you consider yourself a die hard, you would do well to take the time to read it. H
|
|
DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,636
|
Post by DallasHoya on Feb 16, 2021 21:00:33 GMT -5
JT's book is a treasure for any Hoya fan. There is so much backstory that I was unaware of at the time of some crucial events in JT's time on the hilltop. My perspective on Hoya Hoops includes being one of a very small number of folks who were at the first game he coached for GU, a win over St. Francis at McDonough in Nov. '72, and his last - a loss to Seton Hall at the Meadowlands in 1999. What he accomplished during his time at GU is truly incredible, especially given the odds against him. His commitment to kids getting an education and graduating were real and admirable. His life pre-GU, and pre-basketball were a revelation. I did not know the extent of the racism he faced in his early life and the impact it had on his famil, yet he still had many close white friends, and colleagues. This is JT's book. Of course it relates stories from his POV, and we all know that every story looks different from various perspectives. But reading how JT remembers them? Interpreted them? Very valuable insights. I thoroughly enjoyed reading all the stories. Georgetown is a different place because of his presence and contributions, and far better off overall. I think we all know JT was not universally liked, but I think he was close to universally respected - and deservedly so. Great coach and a principled man. If you consider yourself a die hard, you would do well to take the time to read it. H Agree 100%. And funny. Laughed out loud in many places. Especially at the end of the description of Bill Russell.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,332
|
Post by tashoya on Feb 16, 2021 21:50:35 GMT -5
JT's book is a treasure for any Hoya fan. There is so much backstory that I was unaware of at the time of some crucial events in JT's time on the hilltop. My perspective on Hoya Hoops includes being one of a very small number of folks who were at the first game he coached for GU, a win over St. Francis at McDonough in Nov. '72, and his last - a loss to Seton Hall at the Meadowlands in 1999. What he accomplished during his time at GU is truly incredible, especially given the odds against him. His commitment to kids getting an education and graduating were real and admirable. His life pre-GU, and pre-basketball were a revelation. I did not know the extent of the racism he faced in his early life and the impact it had on his famil, yet he still had many close white friends, and colleagues. This is JT's book. Of course it relates stories from his POV, and we all know that every story looks different from various perspectives. But reading how JT remembers them? Interpreted them? Very valuable insights. I thoroughly enjoyed reading all the stories. Georgetown is a different place because of his presence and contributions, and far better off overall. I think we all know JT was not universally liked, but I think he was close to universally respected - and deservedly so. Great coach and a principled man. If you consider yourself a die hard, you would do well to take the time to read it. H Excellent post. As you said, absolutely worth a read.
|
|
|
Post by centercourt400s on Mar 6, 2021 10:42:19 GMT -5
Just finished the book and was impressed. It was great to get behind the scenes in ways that could never happen during his coaching tenure.
Anyone interested in the current Hoya program should consider reading it, not only for Thompson's history and the great memories but for an insight into the current coach's background and motivation.
|
|
|
Post by centercourt400s on Mar 20, 2021 8:58:44 GMT -5
Apparently the book is included as part of the swag boxes that each of this year's NCAA Tournament player receives
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Mar 20, 2021 9:13:17 GMT -5
Lets win this whole thing for Big John!!!
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
|
Post by MCIGuy on Mar 20, 2021 11:09:51 GMT -5
Apparently the book is included as part of the swag boxes that each of this year's NCAA Tournament player receives Nice!
|
|
saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
|
Post by saxagael on Mar 20, 2021 15:35:21 GMT -5
CBS brought this up in pre-game, saying the NCAA did this as a tribute to a game changer.
|
|
madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,400
|
Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 22, 2021 14:02:20 GMT -5
Elgin Baylor passed away today. Some great Elgin Baylor stories in I Came as a Shadow. DC Legend. RIP Rabbit.
|
|