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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 5, 2019 17:25:58 GMT -5
And I am not weighing in on whether the accusations are credible or not. I would defer to, you know, the folks on the ground who likely have interviewed witnesses, reviewed the evidence, etc.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 5, 2019 17:29:40 GMT -5
A serious lawsuit for not playing a guy? This has crossed over into crazy town. Nobody in the history of sports has ever won a lawsuit over a DNP-coaches decision. At the Georgetown I thought I attended, guys with credible claims of assault, burglary, and harassment didn't get playing time. It wouldn't be a DNP coaches decision, it would be a suspension for allegations off the court. And yes, Sacred Heart is currently in the midst (Though I think I heard they won) of players who had to withdraw from the school after being punished before a legal investigation was completed the accusations proved false because it violated the school handbook that it will treat everyone with respect, dignity, and compassion. I would imagine Georgetown has similar writing in their handbook and is treating both the accused and the accusers equally here.
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royski
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Post by royski on Dec 5, 2019 17:31:20 GMT -5
So, a "credible" accusation shifts things into a sort of guilty until proven innocent scenario? Playing college basketball is a privilege, not a right. Players credibly accused of serious crimes should not be playing until they're cleared, period. It's baffling that this is a debate, have you all lost your minds? Two of these guys have active restraining orders against them! What if these two young women choose to attend a game? Does Ewing need to send them to the locker room?
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playtyler
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Post by playtyler on Dec 5, 2019 17:39:49 GMT -5
This article is as bad as it gets. At this point I think Pat, Lee and DeGioia all need to go. I don't know what DeGioia's involvement/knowledge of the situation was before this week, but he certainly is involved now and what has resulted these last couple days is a disastrous mishandling of the situation which has been laid bare for all to see in this article. This is now bigger than Pat and Lee. It goes all the way to the top. The lack of leadership and judgment is remarkable. The players should not play until this is finally adjudicated. However, now, as soon as they are made not to play, then it will be an admission that they never should have been playing... The mishandling of this and the fallout of this article and others and the accompanying humiliation for the university now have risen to the level where they all have to go.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 5, 2019 17:40:08 GMT -5
A serious lawsuit for not playing a guy? This has crossed over into crazy town. Nobody in the history of sports has ever won a lawsuit over a DNP-coaches decision. At the Georgetown I thought I attended, guys with credible claims of assault, burglary, and harassment didn't get playing time. It wouldn't be a DNP coaches decision, it would be a suspension for allegations off the court. And yes, Sacred Heart is currently in the midst (Though I think I heard they won) of players who had to withdraw from the school after being punished before a legal investigation was completed the accusations proved false because it violated the school handbook that it will treat everyone with respect, dignity, and compassion. I would imagine Georgetown has similar writing in their handbook and is treating both the accused and the accusers equally here. Fine, make it a DNP if the risk of suspension is so high (a dubious claim IMO). Whatever mechanism they use, these guys should not be playing for the team until they get to a resolution. I can't even believe this is Georgetown we are talking about.
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Post by practice on Dec 5, 2019 17:41:18 GMT -5
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 5, 2019 17:43:24 GMT -5
In you scenario you are opening the University up to serious lawsuits by Alexander if he is innocent. Didn't a couple of athletes just win a case like this against some school in Michigan or Illinois? So no, that isn't enough to suspend him. IMO, your response is completely over the top considering the actual accusations against these players, not the flashy headlines that condense it. They don't even have any criminal charges against them and we are acting as if they skipped out on bail. You really want to minimize the accusations? Gardner is accused of showing his erect Edited to one of the girls, without consent. Then Gardner, LeBlanc and Alexander came to her apartment, burglarized it, and stole thousands of dollars worth of items. She reported these incidents to campus police, and called one of the players to confront them about the theft, and he threatened her, saying “if you tell anyone we’ll send people after you”. Her roommate states that LeBlanc threatened her with bodily harm, by text and verbally. She also fears for her safety from Alexander. Two separate judges heard this, and both granted restraining orders. These accusations have been made under penalty of perjury. Maybe you think that's all good harmless fun. I don't think men credibly accused of terrorizing female students should be representing our school until they're cleared. I’m accusing you of being a troll. You’re purposely trying to stir the pot and incite unruly behavior within the forum. You’ve gone on a crusade to try to sully the good reputation of our favorite university. For these reasons I’m demanding that the mods ban you from the site. You shouldn’t be representing our fan base until you can prove you haven’t done these things. And frankly I’m appalled that the mods continue to let you post when you’ve clearly hijacked (and created) multiple threads to try to push your agenda.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 5, 2019 17:45:16 GMT -5
This article is as bad as it gets. At this point I think Pat, Lee and DeGioia all need to go. I don't know what DeGioia's involvement/knowledge of the situation was before this week, but he certainly is involved now and what has resulted these last couple days is a disastrous mishandling of the situation which has been laid bare for all to see in this article. This is now bigger than Pat and Lee. It goes all the way to the top. The lack of leadership and judgment is remarkable. The players should not play until this is finally adjudicated. However, now, as soon as they are made not to play, then it will be an admission that they never should have been playing... The mishandling of this and the fallout of this article and others and the accompanying humiliation for the university now have risen to the level where they all have to go. Hyperbole much?
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 5, 2019 17:45:35 GMT -5
So, if a guy gets in a fight in practice or misses a class, he can be suspended for whatever time the coach wants and nobody bats an eye (in fact, people would probably celebrate the coach). But, a guy has a credible claim of assault, harassment, and burglary against him and nothing can be done? Is this for real?
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 5, 2019 17:52:55 GMT -5
So, if a guy gets in a fight in practice or misses a class, he can be suspended for whatever time the coach wants and nobody bats an eye (in fact, people would probably celebrate the coach). But, a guy has a credible claim of assault, harassment, and burglary against him and nothing can be done? Is this for real? They used FERPA yesterday as an excuse to not answer pre-game whether 2 players would play. There's no rhyme or reason to the arguments coming from the AD.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 5, 2019 17:56:58 GMT -5
It wouldn't be a DNP coaches decision, it would be a suspension for allegations off the court. And yes, Sacred Heart is currently in the midst (Though I think I heard they won) of players who had to withdraw from the school after being punished before a legal investigation was completed the accusations proved false because it violated the school handbook that it will treat everyone with respect, dignity, and compassion. I would imagine Georgetown has similar writing in their handbook and is treating both the accused and the accusers equally here. Fine, make it a DNP if the risk of suspension is so high (a dubious claim IMO). Whatever mechanism they use, these guys should not be playing for the team until they get to a resolution. I can't even believe this is Georgetown we are talking about. I mean that would be worse. It would still be retaliating against a player against not investigated allegations. It's completely unfair.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 5, 2019 17:57:57 GMT -5
A serious lawsuit for not playing a guy? This has crossed over into crazy town. Nobody in the history of sports has ever won a lawsuit over a DNP-coaches decision. At the Georgetown I thought I attended, guys with credible claims of assault, burglary, and harassment didn't get playing time. It wouldn't be a DNP coaches decision, it would be a suspension for allegations off the court. And yes, Sacred Heart is currently in the midst (Though I think I heard they won) of players who had to withdraw from the school after being punished before a legal investigation was completed the accusations proved false because it violated the school handbook that it will treat everyone with respect, dignity, and compassion. I would imagine Georgetown has similar writing in their handbook and is treating both the accused and the accusers equally here. Sacred Heart was sued because they kicked the kids out of school due to the false accusations, that's not what folks are talking about doing in this case...
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 5, 2019 18:00:28 GMT -5
So, if a guy gets in a fight in practice or misses a class, he can be suspended for whatever time the coach wants and nobody bats an eye (in fact, people would probably celebrate the coach). But, a guy has a credible claim of assault, harassment, and burglary against him and nothing can be done? Is this for real? In your provided examples, the coach is making his decision based on indisputable evidence. Not unfounded accusations. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 5, 2019 18:05:23 GMT -5
In you scenario you are opening the University up to serious lawsuits by Alexander if he is innocent. Didn't a couple of athletes just win a case like this against some school in Michigan or Illinois? So no, that isn't enough to suspend him. IMO, your response is completely over the top considering the actual accusations against these players, not the flashy headlines that condense it. They don't even have any criminal charges against them and we are acting as if they skipped out on bail. You really want to minimize the accusations? Gardner is accused of showing his erect Edited to one of the girls, without consent. Then Gardner, LeBlanc and Alexander came to her apartment, burglarized it, and stole thousands of dollars worth of items. She reported these incidents to campus police, and called one of the players to confront them about the theft, and he threatened her, saying “if you tell anyone we’ll send people after you”. Her roommate states that LeBlanc threatened her with bodily harm, by text and verbally. She also fears for her safety from Alexander. Two separate judges heard this, and both granted restraining orders. These accusations have been made under penalty of perjury. Maybe you think that's all good harmless fun. I don't think men credibly accused of terrorizing female students should be representing our school until they're cleared. We will just have to agree to disagree then.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 5, 2019 18:07:10 GMT -5
So, if a guy gets in a fight in practice or misses a class, he can be suspended for whatever time the coach wants and nobody bats an eye (in fact, people would probably celebrate the coach). But, a guy has a credible claim of assault, harassment, and burglary against him and nothing can be done? Is this for real? In your provided examples, the coach is making his decision based on indisputable evidence. Not unfounded accusations. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The judge thought there was credibility to the claims and there is a 100% chance that he knows a lot more about what happened than we do.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 5, 2019 18:08:56 GMT -5
It wouldn't be a DNP coaches decision, it would be a suspension for allegations off the court. And yes, Sacred Heart is currently in the midst (Though I think I heard they won) of players who had to withdraw from the school after being punished before a legal investigation was completed the accusations proved false because it violated the school handbook that it will treat everyone with respect, dignity, and compassion. I would imagine Georgetown has similar writing in their handbook and is treating both the accused and the accusers equally here. Sacred Heart was sued because they kicked the kids out of school due to the false accusations, that's not what folks are talking about doing in this case... Actually Bradley withdrew from school, he wasn't kicked out. And we are talking about punishing students based on uninvestigated accusations, the principle is the same. And there are multiple other examples listed in this thread of similar cases and precedents against acting against the accused without giving them their due process.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 5, 2019 18:13:58 GMT -5
So, a "credible" accusation shifts things into a sort of guilty until proven innocent scenario? Playing college basketball is a privilege, not a right. Players credibly accused of serious crimes should not be playing until they're cleared, period. It's baffling that this is a debate, have you all lost your minds? Two of these guys have active restraining orders against them! What if these two young women choose to attend a game? Does Ewing need to send them to the locker room? I'm not sure you understand how restraining orders work or how incredibly easy it is to get one. I'm sure someone could make a compelling case to get one against you for the language and tone you've used in this thread.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 5, 2019 18:14:08 GMT -5
In your provided examples, the coach is making his decision based on indisputable evidence. Not unfounded accusations. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The judge thought there was credibility to the claims and there is a 100% chance that he knows a lot more about what happened than we do. Based on what are you so sure he knows a lot more than we do? He wasn’t there. He doesn’t have video evidence. There’s no admission of guilt from the accused. All he has are police reports and testimony from the complainant. Which is essentially exactly what we have.
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Post by practice on Dec 5, 2019 18:20:15 GMT -5
Playing college basketball is a privilege, not a right. Players credibly accused of serious crimes should not be playing until they're cleared, period. It's baffling that this is a debate, have you all lost your minds? Two of these guys have active restraining orders against them! What if these two young women choose to attend a game? Does Ewing need to send them to the locker room? I'm not sure you understand how restraining orders work or how incredibly easy it is to get one. I'm sure someone could make a compelling case to get one against you for the language and tone you've used in this thread. I've been suggested filing for a TRO against Royski for days ... reading his holier than thou BS is an assault.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 5, 2019 18:25:28 GMT -5
The judge thought there was credibility to the claims and there is a 100% chance that he knows a lot more about what happened than we do. Based on what are you so sure he knows a lot more than we do? He wasn’t there. He doesn’t have video evidence. There’s no admission of guilt from the accused. All he has are police reports and testimony from the complainant. Which is essentially exactly what we have. He probably saw the text messages that were referenced. I strongly suspect those were a big reason he felt that she had good reason to feel unsafe. And, perhaps the women involved offered more detail about what happened (under oath I might add) beyond what was in the written report. Maybe not, maybe he just read the report and ruled. I don't know but I really doubt that was the case.
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