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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 18, 2019 9:30:39 GMT -5
You folks are watching different games than I am when you see the bench kill momentum. I see our depth wearing down teams. And I see the starters making plenty of mistakes in their own right. Hoyalove, I was at the game and told my daughter when we were up 19-11 to watch the score. That is when we subbed in our 2nd line and promptly gave up and 18-2 run. Most of that was against the 2nd unit. The subbing works, but not en masse the way we are doing it. I also think that outside of zone teams Blair probably doesn't get a lot of run. The pairing of Allen, Blair, LeBlanc, Wahab & Alexander is offensively deficient and I am hoping coach gets that now. The luxury of the bench is that foul trouble shouldn't kill us. A single injury shouldn't kill us. But if all are healthy, someone in the Blair, Allen, Gardner, Wahab, Alexander group probably isn't going to be happy with the minutes they get in a given game. If Mac or Mosely are struggling, we now have an answer off the bench and that is how I would use the bench. One other observation, Alexander is getting yelled at a lot from the bench for being out of place. It happened last night too. I need more Gardner too.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Nov 18, 2019 10:08:03 GMT -5
This years OOC schedule is much better/tougher than two years ago, so every win is important and I was happy to see the Hoyas make the adjustments they did last night to win the game. They still have a long ways to go if they are going to beat the high major teams they have coming up on the schedule.
Offensively they don't seem to have a true identity of what they want to do, outside of feeding Yurt in the post and hoping for offensive rebounds. They seem to lack poise when they can't get Yurt the ball in the post which leads to a lot of turnovers and bad shots. Some of this might be attributed to trying to integrate new players, because when they shortened the rotation in the second half they seemed to play much more smoothly. I appreciate the fact that they are trying to utilize the improved athleticism and depth they have this year but the team needs to better value every possession and leverage the strengths of their best players. I think Q is going toe a really good center for the Hoyas for a few years, but I am not sure I understand forcing him the ball in the post as often as they do now. I think he could help them scoring the way LeBlanc did last year off of transition and offensive rebounds without ever running a play for him. I love how aggressive Gardner is, but he is still getting used to playing against college level competition and it leads to some bod decisions and turnovers. I don't have any real issues with Alexander and I hope he continues to get a decent amount of PT, I think he is a valuable player and offers another offensive weapon on the wing and in transition.
On defense it appears they are trying to use use their athleticism and length but they don't have the discipline for entire possessions and if the other team is patient and makes 3 or 4 passes they can usually find an open shot. They have been over helping/rotating on a lot of occasions and just need to trust that their teammates can contain the guy they are covering and that they have some rim protection behind them. I can see a lot of positives and effort for some stretches on defense but a better focus on being fundamentally sound would help limit the open 3's that have been keeping other teams close in games the Hoyas should be pulling away in.
There is no doubt that the use of their depth and the full court press this year has caused some other teams to wear down the second half, but the turnovers and easy baskets that are happening in the first half are going to be tough to overcome against the better teams they will be playing in the next few weeks.
There are signs that this years team could be really good if they can develop an identity on both sides of the ball, but at this point they still seem to disjointed in some ways and could use to define the roles of the bench players more. There are always injuries and games with foul trouble so having this depth is going to be helpful and those guys need to be ready to contribute, but it seems like some of them are trying to do a little too much right now.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,382
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Post by madgesiq92 on Nov 18, 2019 10:12:37 GMT -5
I know right. Let’s play the team manager for 6 minutes and “bring the chaos.” Yeah, chaos is right. 4ever is the Joe Touomou of this board. Slap the floor, 4ever! Slap it! More like Perry McDonald, Don Reid, and Jabril Trawick combined...we need those types of attitudes on this team. If those three guys were the 9th 10th and 11th players on our current team, I would agree in using that depth. They are not.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 18, 2019 10:34:26 GMT -5
ok meanarywaswayup yup now get ready for texas HUGE game ALL need to contribute asap for a win vs number 18 texas and then go hoyas and yes a number of times on the press and a number of people OUTA PLACE despite Pat yelling at them gotta lock that down asap go hoyas ITS FEBRUARY NOW in the big apple
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 18, 2019 10:39:00 GMT -5
This years OOC schedule is much better/tougher than two years ago, so every win is important and I was happy to see the Hoyas make the adjustments they did last night to win the game. They still have a long ways to go if they are going to beat the high major teams they have coming up on the schedule. Offensively they don't seem to have a true identity of what they want to do, outside of feeding Yurt in the post and hoping for offensive rebounds. They seem to lack poise when they can't get Yurt the ball in the post which leads to a lot of turnovers and bad shots. Some of this might be attributed to trying to integrate new players, because when they shortened the rotation in the second half they seemed to play much more smoothly. I appreciate the fact that they are trying to utilize the improved athleticism and depth they have this year but the team needs to better value every possession and leverage the strengths of their best players. I think Q is going toe a really good center for the Hoyas for a few years, but I am not sure I understand forcing him the ball in the post as often as they do now. I think he could help them scoring the way LeBlanc did last year off of transition and offensive rebounds without ever running a play for him. I love how aggressive Gardner is, but he is still getting used to playing against college level competition and it leads to some bod decisions and turnovers. I don't have any real issues with Alexander and I hope he continues to get a decent amount of PT, I think he is a valuable player and offers another offensive weapon on the wing and in transition. On defense it appears they are trying to use use their athleticism and length but they don't have the discipline for entire possessions and if the other team is patient and makes 3 or 4 passes they can usually find an open shot. They have been over helping/rotating on a lot of occasions and just need to trust that their teammates can contain the guy they are covering and that they have some rim protection behind them. I can see a lot of positives and effort for some stretches on defense but a better focus on being fundamentally sound would help limit the open 3's that have been keeping other teams close in games the Hoyas should be pulling away in. There is no doubt that the use of their depth and the full court press this year has caused some other teams to wear down the second half, but the turnovers and easy baskets that are happening in the first half are going to be tough to overcome against the better teams they will be playing in the next few weeks. There are signs that this years team could be really good if they can develop an identity on both sides of the ball, but at this point they still seem to disjointed in some ways and could use to define the roles of the bench players more. There are always injuries and games with foul trouble so having this depth is going to be helpful and those guys need to be ready to contribute, but it seems like some of them are trying to do a little too much right now. How do you have length when you have 3 shorty guards in at the same time and a power forward with length but only ways 200 lbs.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by OldHoyafan on Nov 18, 2019 10:56:49 GMT -5
Don’t know if it was by design or coincidence, but the first four teams all play aggressive man-to-man defense and each has a very quick point guard that is very good at leading the team. Not sure if Ewing is trying to get his team ready for the man-to-man defense in the BE or get his offense ready for pressing defense. One concern for me so far has been the inability of Akinjo to exploit the tight defense with dribbling into the lane and forcing one of his big men to be free for short shot. In all four games the opposing point guard was able to keep him in front of him without help. The few times he was able to penetrate the lane his head was down and he was looking only for his own shot. To be the point guard Walker was for Ewing in the pros he has to be able to break his man down and force other defensive players to move to stop him. Without that he can not score enough to off set that. I am not jumping on him because he was the only true point guard on the team last year and the only one this year who is also a scorer. It maybe that teams have scouted his cross over move and the defensive man knows which way he will be going. He has added the Euro step in an attempt to get by the rim blocker but that helps him to get to the basket but not to dish assists. Hopefully we will see the lob for a dunk by big men when he has penetrated the lane added soon. Again not trying to throw shade on him, but his high caliber play is instrumental in this teams ultimate success.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Nov 18, 2019 11:41:27 GMT -5
Good thing we have shooters coming in next year Priority #1 and #2...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 18, 2019 12:05:22 GMT -5
Our offense was substantially better in the second half (1.34 ppp) than the first (0.94). Our defense gave up 1.11 points in the first half, and 1.02 in the second half. So, we clearly played substantially better in the second half, and it isn't particularly close. It's noteworthy, as others have said, that LeBlanc played most of the second half, and we did not have nearly as wide a rotation.
One major area we need to improve is not taking long twos. I didn't track it for the whole game, but we had way too many long twos - for example Allen took one at 9:40 in the first half (but bailed out by a foul), Akinjo took one at 8:29, Alexander had one at 1:25ish, Mosely took a two with his foot on the three point line (worst shot in basketball) at 18:41 in the second half, etc. Akinjo also took a closely guarded three at 18:12. There were a lot more, including some we made, but it really should be a team policy not to take many/any of those shots. They're the worst shots in basketball (low percentage, only get 2 points).
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by madgesiq92 on Nov 18, 2019 12:26:36 GMT -5
One major area we need to improve is not taking long twos. I didn't track it for the whole game, but we had way too many long twos - for example Allen took one at 9:40 in the first half (but bailed out by a foul), Akinjo took one at 8:29, Alexander had one at 1:25ish, Mosely took a two with his foot on the three point line (worst shot in basketball) at 18:41 in the second half, etc. Akinjo also took a closely guarded three at 18:12. There were a lot more, including some we made, but it really should be a team policy not to take many/any of those shots. They're the worst shots in basketball (low percentage, only get 2 points). I agree with this but the long two is a symptom of an offense that doesn't move the ball enough and space to create better opportunities. I don't think taking long twos is "the plan" but rather "the result" of an inefficient half court offense, if that makes sense.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 18, 2019 12:39:28 GMT -5
One major area we need to improve is not taking long twos. I didn't track it for the whole game, but we had way too many long twos - for example Allen took one at 9:40 in the first half (but bailed out by a foul), Akinjo took one at 8:29, Alexander had one at 1:25ish, Mosely took a two with his foot on the three point line (worst shot in basketball) at 18:41 in the second half, etc. Akinjo also took a closely guarded three at 18:12. There were a lot more, including some we made, but it really should be a team policy not to take many/any of those shots. They're the worst shots in basketball (low percentage, only get 2 points). I agree with this but the long two is a symptom of an offense that doesn't move the ball enough and space to create better opportunities. I don't think taking long twos is "the plan" but rather "the result" of an inefficient half court offense, if that make sense. 3pt line was increase 5 inches this season. We have slot of border line 3 pt shooters anyway so I think they aren’t comfortable shooting the new 3.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Nov 18, 2019 12:52:49 GMT -5
Our offense was substantially better in the second half (1.34 ppp) than the first (0.94). Our defense gave up 1.11 points in the first half, and 1.02 in the second half. So, we clearly played substantially better in the second half, and it isn't particularly close. It's noteworthy, as others have said, that LeBlanc played most of the second half, and we did not have nearly as wide a rotation. One major area we need to improve is not taking long twos. I didn't track it for the whole game, but we had way too many long twos - for example Allen took one at 9:40 in the first half (but bailed out by a foul), Akinjo took one at 8:29, Alexander had one at 1:25ish, Mosely took a two with his foot on the three point line (worst shot in basketball) at 18:41 in the second half, etc. Akinjo also took a closely guarded three at 18:12. There were a lot more, including some we made, but it really should be a team policy not to take many/any of those shots. They're the worst shots in basketball (low percentage, only get 2 points). I see us shooting the long 2s and the baseline turnaround 10-ft jumpers, and cringe. I want to see our defense force the other team to take long 2s. Guard the arc and the post, and let's see the other team try some difficult shots for a change (I know, GSU hit several long 2s but missed a few too). Whether that is with a zone or with man defense, it does not matter as long as we're not overhelping somewhere else and thus leaving a perimeter shooter open or allowing easy layups.
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Loyal Hoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Loyal Hoya on Nov 18, 2019 12:54:00 GMT -5
I hope this is a turning point. I hope coach realizes what works and what doesn't. The second unit thing doesn't work. Need to have at least 2-3 starters out there at all times. We also need to run an offense and not just pound to yurt or go 1 on 1. We ran some actual sets in the second half and they were effective and we scored. Hopefully we see a tighter rotation and Josh playing more with the starters ( I don't care who starts though I would start him) but he needs to get run with the starters like he did in the second half. glad to see the team not get down. We actually started pretty well and had an 8 point lead until the second unit came in and they went on an 18-2 run. I don't totally disagree. When Georgia State pulled to within two or three (so at 19-16 or 19-17), I said to my wife that we needed to get Akinjo back in the game. But as a factual matter, the starters WERE back in the game at 19-18 and still allowed Georgia State to build a 29-21 lead. So you can blame 7 points on the second unit (and you might argue that they allowed Ga State to get momentum or confidence or whatever), but the fact of the matter is that the starters did not stanch the bleeding when they came back in. I think we will see Ewing tighten the rotation a little more, and I hope that LeBlanc continues to get more minutes, but I think the overall distribution of minutes were pretty good. Maybe the rotation should be tweaked a bit to get a better combination of players at times. But the bottom line is that we need to play better defense and make some three-point shots.
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Post by petabdoubleg on Nov 18, 2019 13:31:18 GMT -5
That game was not a gimme and I hate to say I was not surprised when we were down at half. Really good 2H that could be a turning point (hopefully) for our season, especially as we head up to MSG for the Empire Classic. I have some general observations from the game without diving too much into any advanced stats: -I like Blair, but at this point you just can't play him. Even the 11 minutes from last night seems a little too much, as those minutes could be going elsewhere. -Allen, Wahab, and Galen can all be effective in their own way. Will be interesting to see how they settle in moving forward. Defensively: -Everyone on the team seems to close out terribly, the exception being Terrell Allen, who at least stutter steps and has his feet in position to not get beat off the dribble. Mostly everyone else closes out either too wildly (sprinting, jumping at EVERY ball fake, etc.) or way too timidly (hands down, not contesting at all). Jamorko in particular should not be letting shooters get easy step-in jump shots without getting a hand up ( Like this and like this.) -We're working harder on defense. Who knows if/when this will translate, but I really do notice people trying much harder to keep their man in front of them, especially Mac. I remember guards blowing by him last year and he would just give up, but last night he was fighting through everything and not giving up on the play. There was one possession in the 2H where he stayed in front of his man (#11 Allen I believe?) on several moves, got him to pick up his dribble, contested 1-2 pump fakes, and ended up getting the stop. At the very least it looks like we're giving more effort and that's something to build on. -I really did not think the press was going to work against that team, but I felt that it was pretty effective in the 2H. I think this is something to utilize particularly when Pat goes small-ball lineup with Leblanc at the 5. We don't have anyone anchoring the middle but Jamorko and Josh are long enough to recover on some of those drives. -We still over-help on every drive. That needs to stop. -I love Wahab defensively. Very long and has good instincts. Already understands the concept of 'verticality' and think he was called for a foul last night that he shouldn't have, when he jumped straight up and contested. -We're looking to take charges more than past teams, which is huge. Offensively: -Did we run some weave sets last night, or did that just happen by chance? Either way, I loved it, and it's a really simple & effective way to not only get our guards going downhill, but also to get them to share the ball with each other and get some rhythm (can't remember how this possession started but I believe this was the weave). (Also a couple of examples back-to-back right here). -Why why WHY have we never been able to run any effective sets on out-of-bounds plays. I don't even care if we're looking to score, but I'm sick of watching one person jog to the corner and everyone else on the court barely move. -Ewing mentioned that he made free-throw shooting a high priority and that clearly shows. Awesome team quality to have. -Not sure what Galen's role is going to end up being exactly, but he's very clearly one of our most talented offensive players. His between-the-legs, step-back 3, and baseline poster attempt were big sparks in the 1H when we had nothing going on offense. -Jagan's dunk was AWESOME. Love seeing him fully healthy and contributing huge minutes for us. -Minutes distribution was so much better in the 2H, as many have said.
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Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Nov 18, 2019 13:45:31 GMT -5
Limit the rotation and this team is going to be just fine- I truly believe it's that simple.
That doesn't mask the lack of offensive sets and putrid team defense, but Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc, Pickett, Yurt, Mosley, Alexander and Allen will give the Hoyas a chance to compete, talent wise, in every BE matchup. Wahab should play only when absolutely necessary. Likewise with Gardner. Blair shouldn't be playing, period.
It's up to Pat and the staff to recognize the obvious.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Nov 18, 2019 13:55:14 GMT -5
Good thing we have shooters coming in next year Namely?
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,356
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Post by calhoya on Nov 18, 2019 14:23:30 GMT -5
Limit the rotation and this team is going to be just fine- I truly believe it's that simple. That doesn't mask the lack of offensive sets and putrid team defense, but Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc, Pickett, Yurt, Mosley, Alexander and Allen will give the Hoyas a chance to compete, talent wise, in every BE matchup. Wahab should play only when absolutely necessary. Likewise with Gardner. Blair shouldn't be playing, period.It's up to Pat and the staff to recognize the obvious. Blair is struggling on offense but I noticed improved defense. While he does not have the handle of McClung his first two years shooting from deep (32.2%, 34.4%) were better than McClung. Both these kids need to be able to play their way out of shooting slumps. McClung may have accomplished that last night. Besides, in the absence of Govan and Malinowski this team is woeful from deep. Hopefully if the guards look to distribute more to the wings, Alexander and Pickett will contribute. Right now I see no reason not to give Blair some run to see if the shooting slump ends.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 18, 2019 14:29:20 GMT -5
Limit the rotation and this team is going to be just fine- I truly believe it's that simple. That doesn't mask the lack of offensive sets and putrid team defense, but Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc, Pickett, Yurt, Mosley, Alexander and Allen will give the Hoyas a chance to compete, talent wise, in every BE matchup. Wahab should play only when absolutely necessary. Likewise with Gardner. Blair shouldn't be playing, period. It's up to Pat and the staff to recognize the obvious. I think Blair can become a contributor but I agree with Gardner & Wahab playing very little this season...
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 18, 2019 14:43:17 GMT -5
Limit the rotation and this team is going to be just fine- I truly believe it's that simple. That doesn't mask the lack of offensive sets and putrid team defense, but Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc, Pickett, Yurt, Mosley, Alexander and Allen will give the Hoyas a chance to compete, talent wise, in every BE matchup. Wahab should play only when absolutely necessary. Likewise with Gardner. Blair shouldn't be playing, period. It's up to Pat and the staff to recognize the obvious. Wahab is going to play as Yurt's backup, unless the opponent is small up front. He has a loooong way to go to be Big East level, but he is four games into his freshman year. He is a big part of our future. And Patrick is going to get him experience - he is not going to go into next season with zero big men with experience. Blair will also continue to get spot duty in the hope that he finds his shot, we are woefully lacking in perimeter shooters. We will just have to live with the growing pains.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Nov 18, 2019 14:51:53 GMT -5
Limit the rotation and this team is going to be just fine- I truly believe it's that simple. That doesn't mask the lack of offensive sets and putrid team defense, but Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc, Pickett, Yurt, Mosley, Alexander and Allen will give the Hoyas a chance to compete, talent wise, in every BE matchup. Wahab should play only when absolutely necessary. Likewise with Gardner. Blair shouldn't be playing, period. It's up to Pat and the staff to recognize the obvious. I think Blair can become a contributor but I agree with Gardner & Wahab playing very little this season... Blair needs to make 3's to justify playing time. Otherwise he becomes the current Reggie Cameron. I think Wahab needs to get some playing time. If the Hoyas are going to press as often as they have lately they are are going to tire Yurt out. I realize they can play LeBlanc for some minutes at the 5 in a smaller lineup, but I think Wahab adds some value as a rebounder and rim protector for 8-12 minutes a game. I just don't think they need to run offense to get him the ball in the post at this point fun his career. I think Gardner is going to see inconsistent minutes depending on how the game is unfolding. He does add something as a rebounder and plays with great energy. If the game turns into a real transition game he could help, less so in the half court at this point.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 18, 2019 15:10:54 GMT -5
We took 3 bigs, so we need to develop one of them through live action. Yurtseven will be gone after this season, then what?
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