SFOHoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SFOHoya on Jun 24, 2019 14:47:56 GMT -5
My guiding principles to adding new schools
1) are they a basketball brand that is additive to the BE being the best college basketball conference? Do they make us better / closer at achieving this goal? 2) are they willing, at the institutional level, to subsume football to basketball? Distant 3) do they fit our current geographic footprint?
UConn used to be yes no yes. Sounds like they’ve moved to 3 green lights. Can’t think of another school that fits the criteria.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RBHoya on Jun 24, 2019 15:41:30 GMT -5
My guiding principles to adding new schools 1) are they a basketball brand that is additive to the BE being the best college basketball conference? Do they make us better / closer at achieving this goal? 2) are they willing, at the institutional level, to subsume football to basketball? Distant 3) do they fit our current geographic footprint? UConn used to be yes no yes. Sounds like they’ve moved to 3 green lights. Can’t think of another school that fits the criteria. You're right, and there aren't any, since if there were any such schools out there we'd likely already have them. I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that there's no reason to rush anything. Sure, 11 is kind of weird for scheduling and seeding at the Garden and whatnot. But a 20 game league schedule is fine. My guess is it's where we'll stay for a while. When/if we do ever add, the idea that Team #12 would be from the mid-west and move the league to East/West divisions sort of fits nicely into an existing paradigm. You'd have UConn, PC, Nova, SHU, SJU and us in the east, and Marquette, Depaul, Butler, XU, Creighton and Team #12 in the west. Everybody plays their division twice round-robin, and you play each team from the other division once, alternating home and away each year. Round-robin is nice in concept, but round-robin with the traditional rivals while playing the "new Big East" teams once each would be just as well IMHO. St. Louis has always made great sense in every category except the most important one--quality of the basketball program. Good sized city/market, school profile aligns with the rest of the league (excl. UConn), solid recruiting area, and fits perfectly geographically. It would make the league one nice contiguous region, from the Atlantic through the heartland (well, assuming you're wiling to roll in the district with Maryland). They'd be a perfect fit to round out the western division. The only problem is, their program isn't good enough and doesn't carry any national value. If they could ever string together a few winning seasons they're worth a look, but until that time they don't add enough value. And they're not going anywhere, so no harm in waiting. More interesting will be seeing what happens to UConn football in the new world. Does being without a conference lead to their slow death, or are they as well off or better as an independent than they were in the AAC? If it's the latter, does moving to a superior basketball conference and going independent in football start to look appetizing to anyone else? Cincy may be the obvious choice, although we don't exactly need them with Xavier in the mix. The real team to watch might be Memphis, which seems poised for major basketball success again with Penny at the helm over the next several years. They're also in a reasonable spot geographically, in a good sized market, have a good sized fanbase and basketball tradition, and with the way Penny is recruiting they'd bring eyeballs to tv sets. If UConn demonstrates that BE sports plus football independence is viable, could Memphis consider it? They don't have the same Big East tradition that UConn has pulling them back, but they're historically more of a basketball school, and I'm not sure if they'd consider a Big East offer rather than playing Tulane, Tulsa, ECU, the directional Florida schools, etc. It's not a given, as their profile does align with those schools somewhat, but if AAC basketball takes a downturn post-UConn, wonder if they might consider going the same route.
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Hoyaholic
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Post by Hoyaholic on Jun 24, 2019 16:04:06 GMT -5
From a fan's perspective, the return to the round robin format has been the biggest upside of the NBE. I had forgotten how much better that makes the flow of the conference season.
That said, if the conference had a gun to its head to add a 12th team, I am on team Wichita State all the way. My top criteria are (1) Do they have an institutional committment to hoops, and (2) do they have and dedicated, rabid fan base? WSU passes both with flying colors. I could care less about market size. A game in Wichita in front of 20,000 screaming fans is way better from a perception perspective than one in the mortuary that is Chestnut Hill. WSU is cut from the same cloth as Xavier, Butler and Creighton, and would be a great add (but only if we had to).
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 24, 2019 16:16:07 GMT -5
My guiding principles to adding new schools 1) are they a basketball brand that is additive to the BE being the best college basketball conference? Do they make us better / closer at achieving this goal? 2) are they willing, at the institutional level, to subsume football to basketball? Distant 3) do they fit our current geographic footprint? UConn used to be yes no yes. Sounds like they’ve moved to 3 green lights. Can’t think of another school that fits the criteria. You're right, and there aren't any, since if there were any such schools out there we'd likely already have them. I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that there's no reason to rush anything. Sure, 11 is kind of weird for scheduling and seeding at the Garden and whatnot. But a 20 game league schedule is fine. My guess is it's where we'll stay for a while. When/if we do ever add, the idea that Team #12 would be from the mid-west and move the league to East/West divisions sort of fits nicely into an existing paradigm. You'd have UConn, PC, Nova, SHU, SJU and us in the east, and Marquette, Depaul, Butler, XU, Creighton and Team #12 in the west. Everybody plays their division twice round-robin, and you play each team from the other division once, alternating home and away each year. Round-robin is nice in concept, but round-robin with the traditional rivals while playing the "new Big East" teams once each would be just as well IMHO. St. Louis has always made great sense in every category except the most important one--quality of the basketball program. Good sized city/market, school profile aligns with the rest of the league (excl. UConn), solid recruiting area, and fits perfectly geographically. It would make the league one nice contiguous region, from the Atlantic through the heartland (well, assuming you're wiling to roll in the district with Maryland). They'd be a perfect fit to round out the western division. The only problem is, their program isn't good enough and doesn't carry any national value. If they could ever string together a few winning seasons they're worth a look, but until that time they don't add enough value. And they're not going anywhere, so no harm in waiting. More interesting will be seeing what happens to UConn football in the new world. Does being without a conference lead to their slow death, or are they as well off or better as an independent than they were in the AAC? If it's the latter, does moving to a superior basketball conference and going independent in football start to look appetizing to anyone else? Cincy may be the obvious choice, although we don't exactly need them with Xavier in the mix. The real team to watch might be Memphis, which seems poised for major basketball success again with Penny at the helm over the next several years. They're also in a reasonable spot geographically, in a good sized market, have a good sized fanbase and basketball tradition, and with the way Penny is recruiting they'd bring eyeballs to tv sets. If UConn demonstrates that BE sports plus football independence is viable, could Memphis consider it? They don't have the same Big East tradition that UConn has pulling them back, but they're historically more of a basketball school, and I'm not sure if they'd consider a Big East offer rather than playing Tulane, Tulsa, ECU, the directional Florida schools, etc. It's not a given, as their profile does align with those schools somewhat, but if AAC basketball takes a downturn post-UConn, wonder if they might consider going the same route. I think Memphis is a great pickup if you cant Get Gonzaga.
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Post by bearsandbulls on Jun 24, 2019 16:18:20 GMT -5
My guiding principles to adding new schools 1) are they a basketball brand that is additive to the BE being the best college basketball conference? Do they make us better / closer at achieving this goal? 2) are they willing, at the institutional level, to subsume football to basketball? Distant 3) do they fit our current geographic footprint? UConn used to be yes no yes. Sounds like they’ve moved to 3 green lights. Can’t think of another school that fits the criteria. So how does UConn fit with the rest of the Big East with regards to academics. Now, Georgetown is the top of the pyramid academically in the BEAST, but the other schools represent reasonably. As a public school can they modify the academic profile of their recruits in ways that the rest of the Big East does not see fit, or are they a good fit from a student athlete perspective as well? I suffer being a Pac12 fan in sports as well, and let me tell you the academics go from being top drawer to just needing a pulse to get into some of the schools. Would this upset a nice balance that we now have in the league?
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 24, 2019 16:42:41 GMT -5
Geez. I think the attendance horse raced in Santa Anita at some point over the past 6 months. Sure you need a plan, but isn't "what worked" in 2007 and 2013 BET tournament championship teams (and a Final Four, etc didn't hurt). It's pretty simple. Win and attendance will follow. Sure, we're now in a generation/time where no one is really motivated to leave their house/apartment, but honest question: would the fan base (at least geezers on this board) be happy, and would the program make $ venue-wise with average attendance across all games at the 9-10k level (meaning lessening but continued apathy for most cupcake games - say 7k average, and 10-12k at all BE games)? 2017 game not a good comparison. Both team stunk. FWIW, the attendance for the 2017 game that isn't a good comparison because both teams stunk would've ranked 10th out of our 54 Big East home games since conference realignment. Seems pretty reasonable to conclude UCONN holds some interest for the fan base and it'll be a solid net plus for attendance.
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 24, 2019 16:48:17 GMT -5
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Post by ewingitrust on Jun 24, 2019 20:29:53 GMT -5
I won't get too excited until its actually officially official. Its gonna make recruiting very interesting from Maine down to Virginia...
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Jun 25, 2019 10:22:58 GMT -5
It still is a bit too early to really process what UConn is about to do and the ramifications that are to come, but I struggle to see the Huskies moving into the Big East as a negative. While UConn has had no struggles on the recruiting front upon the hiring of Dan Hurley, it still is not what they enjoyed during the best years this century which came during its Big East membership. Whenever one joins a new conference, programs often attempt to recruit states that it had previously had no connections to thanks to league affiliates existing within such a locale; UConn did not. Most of its work had remained in New England while it was in the AAC. Making the leap back in the Big East should make for an easier pitch for its top targets. Many of those grew up dreaming of playing at Madison Square Garden and competing against such others as Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova. The Big East still has the cache and a more marketable path for competing against the best, playing in nationally televised games and in receiving the platform in getting to the NBA. The Big East should be the league that allows UConn to reach its ceiling. basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/twitter-tuesday-indiana-uconn-s-future-virginia-targets
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 25, 2019 10:30:29 GMT -5
Renewal of Syracuse series, the coming series with Notre Dame and UConn back in the fold. Georgetown will soon be playing a schedule that feels as if the previous version of the 21st century Big East never went away. A few months ago it didn’t look as if the Hoyas would be playing any of those three teams again in the near future.
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Post by tribeninerhoya on Jun 25, 2019 16:23:31 GMT -5
My guiding principles to adding new schools 1) are they a basketball brand that is additive to the BE being the best college basketball conference? Do they make us better / closer at achieving this goal? 2) are they willing, at the institutional level, to subsume football to basketball? Distant 3) do they fit our current geographic footprint? UConn used to be yes no yes. Sounds like they’ve moved to 3 green lights. Can’t think of another school that fits the criteria. I’d argue that VCU could meet those criteria. Nation’s second longest sellout streak (sold out every game for more than 8 straight seasons and still going). Won 24+ games in 12 of the last 13 seasons, etc. 16th in best all-time win percentage (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_teams_with_the_highest_winning_percentage_in_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_college_basketball). They started late and had to fight against their conference for a lot of years (with getting bids/respect), but they’ve been pretty remarkable in their accomplishments, IMO. And it looks like they’ll be ranked again this year.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jun 25, 2019 16:54:25 GMT -5
My guiding principles to adding new schools 1) are they a basketball brand that is additive to the BE being the best college basketball conference? Do they make us better / closer at achieving this goal? 2) are they willing, at the institutional level, to subsume football to basketball? Distant 3) do they fit our current geographic footprint? UConn used to be yes no yes. Sounds like they’ve moved to 3 green lights. Can’t think of another school that fits the criteria. I’d argue that VCU could meet those criteria. Nation’s second longest sellout streak (sold out every game for more than 8 straight seasons and still going). Won 24+ games in 12 of the last 13 seasons, etc. 16th in best all-time win percentage (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_teams_with_the_highest_winning_percentage_in_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_college_basketball). They started late and had to fight against their conference for a lot of years (with getting bids/respect), but they’ve been pretty remarkable in their accomplishments, IMO. And it looks like they’ll be ranked again this year. I agree. I don't think the board is as high on VCU as they should be.....strong bball following, in central VA, no football, and the team is good year in and year out....🤷🏾♂️
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Jun 25, 2019 21:58:25 GMT -5
Without all of those particulars, I would vote for VCU joining the Big East!
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 25, 2019 23:06:46 GMT -5
Without all of those particulars, I would vote for VCU joining the Big East! Is this still a topic? There is no 12th school coming and it won't be VCU.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 25, 2019 23:13:08 GMT -5
VCU is not sexy enough. 😉👎🏻
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jun 26, 2019 6:57:00 GMT -5
My guiding principles to adding new schools 1) are they a basketball brand that is additive to the BE being the best college basketball conference? Do they make us better / closer at achieving this goal? 2) are they willing, at the institutional level, to subsume football to basketball? Distant 3) do they fit our current geographic footprint? UConn used to be yes no yes. Sounds like they’ve moved to 3 green lights. Can’t think of another school that fits the criteria. I’d argue that VCU could meet those criteria. Nation’s second longest sellout streak (sold out every game for more than 8 straight seasons and still going). Won 24+ games in 12 of the last 13 seasons, etc. 16th in best all-time win percentage (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_teams_with_the_highest_winning_percentage_in_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_college_basketball). They started late and had to fight against their conference for a lot of years (with getting bids/respect), but they’ve been pretty remarkable in their accomplishments, IMO. And it looks like they’ll be ranked again this year. You make a strong case. I’d add that the program has demonstrated sustained success even after the departure of a “star coach” in Shaka Smart. Impressive. Gonzaga, Wichita State, and VCU would be on the short list, if hypothetically the conference decided to add a 12th and no power conference/football teams were available.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 26, 2019 8:28:43 GMT -5
“Yeah, I think it will influence kids because now if they’re a Northeast kid, not only can your parents see you play at home, now you can see them play on the road. You can see them play at St. John’s, Seton Hall, Providence, Villanova so I can drive and my parents can see me play,” he said. “So I think from a logistical standpoint it brings them into being a major player that they always were. Let’s not forget they’re a decent brand. That could be really good. Then you have an aggressive talented coach like Danny Hurley.
“That’s a game-changer for college basketball. It just makes sense, geographically and rivalry[-wise]. and now all of a sudden, that’s an extra 5,000 people who will give up their Wednesday night to go see a game.”
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 26, 2019 11:31:48 GMT -5
Without all of those particulars, I would vote for VCU joining the Big East! Is this still a topic? There is no 12th school coming and it won't be VCU. Yeah the conference definitely wants to keep the round robin format, so unless there is some huge financial incentive e.g. TV money (which none of the schools being mentioned, maybe but not necessarily with the exception of Gonzaga, could warrant) or the NCAA inexplicably decides to allow teams to play 2 more games each season, we have our Conference going forward.
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Jun 26, 2019 12:12:41 GMT -5
It's official.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jun 26, 2019 12:14:07 GMT -5
I'm not saying we should necessarily look to expand immediately after adding an 11th team in UConn. The Round Robin format is tidy and we have a pretty good thing going now, although excepting Villanova (thank goodness they have been elite), the conference has had precious little NCAA tournament success since the divorce. And last year's tournament results took a marked step backward.
But I think keeping teams like Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Wichita State, VCU, etc. in the active hopper/pipeline is not a bad idea. The conference should always be contemplating ways to improve and reach the goal of becoming the nation's #1 basketball conference.
National success and scale at the conference level may ultimately attract some football schools to park non-football sports in the Big East.
Take Notre Dame, for example. Wouldn't it be compelling some day to pitch them the idea of joining our "midwest" conference division in which non-football sports have primary travel to Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, and Cincinnati, just as an example. Those are basically all bus trips, except Creighton.
Football has the revenue dollars currently. But the sport isn't on as solid footing as it once was. A decade of concussion study/awareness and children being encouraged into other sports should have an impact.
Just some food for thought. I'm hoping we went into this journey with big ideas and goals. I hope we don't limit ideas based solely on a round robin format preference. If we can do better, we should. And I have a suspicion we can over time.
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