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Post by oldbigeast on Jan 16, 2019 16:39:11 GMT -5
This season is frustrating because we have enough talent to win now. But we also rely heavily on a freshman backcourt. I hate losing, but for the first time in a long time I can say that I like the direction we are headed in.
My question is: How do you balance growth of the young guys for the future of the program and giving guys like Govan the best chance to win games?
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 16, 2019 17:08:19 GMT -5
Not sure I understand. Ewing bears no responsibility towards Govan and him winning in his senior year. And we aren't playing young guys at the expense of winning. Pretty sure Ewing is trying to win every game with no thoughts toward any other goal.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 16, 2019 17:22:42 GMT -5
This season is frustrating because we have enough talent to win now. But we also rely heavily on a freshman backcourt. I hate losing, but for the first time in a long time I can say that I like the direction we are headed in. My question is: How do you balance growth of the young guys for the future of the program and giving guys like Govan the best chance to win games? That's a question for Coach Akinjo. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 16, 2019 21:14:16 GMT -5
I don't really get this at all. I've said this before, but if you look at this team, for this team to accomplish anything notable, at least four, and likely all five of Jessie, James, Mac, Josh and Jamorko need to be playing well.
Jessie is our most consistent scorer and our only low post threat. James and Mac are our only two ball handlers and the only two guys who can create off the dribble. Josh and Jamorko are vital to an effective defense because of their length.
It's not that the other players can't play well or be valuable, but game in and game out, you can't not play James or Mac or any of the four I listed. There's either missing skillsets or overall talent issues that cripple the team. We are super thin, and so when some of these guys play poorly for make mistakes, we are screwed. It's why this team isn't that good -- when folks bemoan how we lose with talent, they are expecting a team mostly consisting of freshmen and a sophomore to play a their full potential, which is insane.
And Ewing's in a tough spot. He can't win without Akinjo. Or even someone like Jamorko. Oh, he might be able to win a game without the latter, but he knows for this team to be NCAA worthy or at that level, he needs them to play well.
When they don't play well ... what do you do? Everyone wants a big hook, but going down to one point guard and creator is not a good idea. It's crippling against most teams.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 16, 2019 21:43:00 GMT -5
I don't really get this at all. I've said this before, but if you look at this team, for this team to accomplish anything notable, at least four, and likely all five of Jessie, James, Mac, Josh and Jamorko need to be playing well. Jessie is our most consistent scorer and our only low post threat. James and Mac are our only two ball handlers and the only two guys who can create off the dribble. Josh and Jamorko are vital to an effective defense because of their length. It's not that the other players can't play well or be valuable, but game in and game out, you can't not play James or Mac or any of the four I listed. There's either missing skillsets or overall talent issues that cripple the team. We are super thin, and so when some of these guys play poorly for make mistakes, we are screwed. It's why this team isn't that good -- when folks bemoan how we lose with talent, they are expecting a team mostly consisting of freshmen and a sophomore to play a their full potential, which is insane. And Ewing's in a tough spot. He can't win without Akinjo. Or even someone like Jamorko. Oh, he might be able to win a game without the latter, but he knows for this team to be NCAA worthy or at that level, he needs them to play well. When they don't play well ... what do you do? Everyone wants a big hook, but going down to one point guard and creator is not a good idea. It's crippling against most teams. This. People mistake playing 9-10 guys as "having depth" and that couldn't be further from the truth. This isn't 2010 when you have the luxury of having Jason Clark as your third guard. This isn't 2008 when you can bring a Ewing Jr. off the bench. Our freshman are making mistakes (mostly correctable) but they still give us the best chance of winning every game. We play our bench as presently constructed because guys have to fill minutes. That's it. This isn't 2006 where we can play a 6 man rotation because we're playing at a snail's pace for the entire game. Pat wants to run and by necessity he's going to have to give his starters rest every now and then. That's why they play; they aren't in there because we need their special skill sets on the floor. |
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 16, 2019 22:41:57 GMT -5
This ^^^ 1000X. To me the most impressive thing about Ewing is how he’s worked with all of his players. Everyone has stayed engaged. It’s not necessarily a linear progression, but everyone is handling their role better. And when they play hard, they are in every single game.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Jan 16, 2019 22:54:30 GMT -5
I don't really get this at all. I've said this before, but if you look at this team, for this team to accomplish anything notable, at least four, and likely all five of Jessie, James, Mac, Josh and Jamorko need to be playing well. Jessie is our most consistent scorer and our only low post threat. James and Mac are our only two ball handlers and the only two guys who can create off the dribble. Josh and Jamorko are vital to an effective defense because of their length. It's not that the other players can't play well or be valuable, but game in and game out, you can't not play James or Mac or any of the four I listed. There's either missing skillsets or overall talent issues that cripple the team. We are super thin, and so when some of these guys play poorly for make mistakes, we are screwed. It's why this team isn't that good -- when folks bemoan how we lose with talent, they are expecting a team mostly consisting of freshmen and a sophomore to play a their full potential, which is insane. And Ewing's in a tough spot. He can't win without Akinjo. Or even someone like Jamorko. Oh, he might be able to win a game without the latter, but he knows for this team to be NCAA worthy or at that level, he needs them to play well. When they don't play well ... what do you do? Everyone wants a big hook, but going down to one point guard and creator is not a good idea. It's crippling against most teams. This. People mistake playing 9-10 guys as "having depth" and that couldn't be further from the truth. This isn't 2010 when you have the luxury of having Jason Clark as your third guard. This isn't 2008 when you can bring a Ewing Jr. off the bench. Our freshman are making mistakes (mostly correctable) but they still give us the best chance of winning every game. We play our bench as presently constructed because guys have to fill minutes. That's it. This isn't 2006 where we can play a 6 man rotation because we're playing at a snail's pace for the entire game. Pat wants to run and by necessity he's going to have to give his starters rest every now and then. That's why they play; they aren't in there because we need their special skill sets on the floor. I agree but think it's more than that-- we do have better depth in general, but we are really thin at a lot if specific skills -- ball handling/creating, one on one defense, etc. The situation is evolving in the right direction, but we still need a few more pieces at skill areas. Getting there. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 21, 2019 13:13:41 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 21, 2019 14:22:34 GMT -5
We're trying to Josh.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 22, 2019 10:30:38 GMT -5
We're basically 2/3rd of the way into the season, so I think a comparison like this is now meaningful:
2018: 15-15 (5-13 BE), RPI: 130, SOS: 118, NCSOS: 349
2019: 12-7 (2-4 BE), RPI: 136, SOS: 115, NCSOS: 274
Considering the mistakes that have been repeated over and over again by this team and staff, it's fair to wonder if progress is really being made here. I'm finding it difficult to see that right now.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 22, 2019 10:43:02 GMT -5
We're basically 2/3rd of the way into season, so I think a comparison like this is now meaningful: 2018: 15-15 (5-13 BE), RPI: 130, SOS: 118, NCSOS: 349 2019: 12-7 (2-4 BE), RPI: 136, SOS: 115, NCSOS: 274 Considering the mistakes that have been repeated over and over again by this team and staff, it's fair to wonder if progress is really being made here. I'm finding it difficult to see that right now. Well, we don't have Marcus. That was a big loss that people fail to realize. Mackinjo aren't one and done freshmen. And they have their ups and downs and weaknesses. Pickett's weaknesses have been exposed. Kaleb, Blair, Mourning, and Mosely are what they are....role players. LeBlanc for all the little things he does for this team, he is limited offensively. That leaves Jesse who can score, but is liability defensively. We don't play defense well. Not surprising we don't see much of a step up this year. But given all of that.... Progress is being made...our team is competitive. We are in these games right down to the wire. When was the last time we were blown out? Early in the season, correct? Problem is people want immediate results now. It is only year 2. Not year 4 or 5. St. John's is in year 4 for Mullin. They are just now starting to get off the ground as a program. Leitao is in his 4th season in DePaul look to be making "some" progress. Things could be worse. Providence is 1-4 in conference with a good coach in Cooley. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 22, 2019 10:49:32 GMT -5
We're basically 2/3rd of the way into season, so I think a comparison like this is now meaningful: 2018: 15-15 (5-13 BE), RPI: 130, SOS: 118, NCSOS: 349 2019: 12-7 (2-4 BE), RPI: 136, SOS: 115, NCSOS: 274 Considering the mistakes that have been repeated over and over again by this team and staff, it's fair to wonder if progress is really being made here. I'm finding it difficult to see that right now. Well, we don't have Marcus. That was a big loss that people fail to realize. Mackinjo aren't one and done freshmen. And they have their ups and downs and weaknesses. Pickett's weaknesses have been exposed. Kaleb, Blair, Mourning, and Mosely are what they are....role players. LeBlanc for all the little things he does for this team, he is limited offensively. That leaves Jesse who can score, but is liability defensively. We don't play defense well. Not surprising we don't see much of a step up this year. But given all of that.... Progress is being made...our team is competitive. We are in these games right down to the wire. When was the last time we were blown out? Early in the season, correct? Problem is people want immediate results now. It is only year 2. Not year 4 or 5. St. John's is in year 4 for Mullin. They are just now starting to get off the ground as a program. Leitao is in his 4th season in DePaul look to be making "some" progress. Things could be worse. Providence is 1-4 in conference with a good coach in Cooley. Agree with most of this, but is our team competitive because we've gotten better year over year or because the BE has regressed in general? Would lean towards the latter on this. The other thing is: do you think Ewing has improved in his in-game coaching and decision making in Year 2 vs Year 1? I haven't seen much if any evidence of that, but curious to know if you see it differently. |
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 22, 2019 11:06:47 GMT -5
Well, we don't have Marcus. That was a big loss that people fail to realize. Mackinjo aren't one and done freshmen. And they have their ups and downs and weaknesses. Pickett's weaknesses have been exposed. Kaleb, Blair, Mourning, and Mosely are what they are....role players. LeBlanc for all the little things he does for this team, he is limited offensively. That leaves Jesse who can score, but is liability defensively. We don't play defense well. Not surprising we don't see much of a step up this year. But given all of that.... Progress is being made...our team is competitive. We are in these games right down to the wire. When was the last time we were blown out? Early in the season, correct? Problem is people want immediate results now. It is only year 2. Not year 4 or 5. St. John's is in year 4 for Mullin. They are just now starting to get off the ground as a program. Leitao is in his 4th season in DePaul look to be making "some" progress. Things could be worse. Providence is 1-4 in conference with a good coach in Cooley. Agree with most of this, but is our team competitive because we've gotten better year over year or because the BE has regressed in general? Would lean towards the latter on this. The other thing is: do you think Ewing has improved in his in-game coaching and decision making in Year 2 vs Year 1? I haven't seen much if any evidence of that, but curious to know if you see it differently. I think we more competitive this year as whole, regardless of whether the Big East is down or not. We look like a stronger unit. Last year, we pretty much had Marcus and Jesse to rely on and that was it. This year we have a backcourt that can score and hit clutch shots in crunch at times, we have a capable 3-pt shooter off the bench Malinowski. We have glue-guy, hustle player in LeBlanc. Just would have loved to have seen this group playing with Marcus. I like his recruiting and evaluation of talent. The 3 freshmen are contributors. Malinowski was a great pickup as a graduate transfer. Pickett, although raw, was a good find at the last minute. I like Blair too. Ewing's substitutions and offensive strategy I like. I think he knows what he wants offensively and the team executes it for the most part. My biggest concern with Ewing is defense. Don't really know his defensive philosophy. Remember he coached as an assistant in the NBA. Is college more structured and diverse when it comes defensive sets than the NBA? |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 22, 2019 11:09:41 GMT -5
Losing Derrickson was definitely a blow, but the team really hasn't seen much improvement year over year. Despite losing Derrickson, the offense is similar to last year (last year, ranked 84, this year 73). The defense, which was already really bad last year (119) is now 138th. That's really bad. And overall, we are 101 compared to 94 last year.
This team is looking like it will be the worst team Georgetown has had since the 2004 Esherick team that was ranked 124th on KenPom. It's also the worst defensive team we've had since then too (that team was ranked 235 on defense, which is particularly atrocious).
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 22, 2019 11:10:14 GMT -5
Problem is people want immediate results now. It is only year 2. Not year 4 or 5. St. John's is in year 4 for Mullin. They are just now starting to get off the ground as a program. Leitao is in his 4th season in DePaul look to be making "some" progress. We fired our last coach after 2 bad years. Ewing isn't going to get 5 years to turn this around. The fanbase will turn. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 22, 2019 11:14:22 GMT -5
Problem is people want immediate results now. It is only year 2. Not year 4 or 5. St. John's is in year 4 for Mullin. They are just now starting to get off the ground as a program. Leitao is in his 4th season in DePaul look to be making "some" progress. We fired our last coach after 2 bad years. Ewing isn't going to get 5 years to turn this around. The fanbase will turn. The merits of JT3 being fired notwithstanding, I don't see any way that Ewing doesn't get at least 4 years. It may not be logical, in light of the fact that they fired a many-time NCAA coach after two losing seasons, but life isn't fair. Keep in mind the university is still paying JT3 through this year. They cannot afford to continually have fired coaches making $3 million a year and remaining on the payroll for several years because they get fired. The best bet is for Ewing to figure things out. All this talk is hugely premature. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 22, 2019 11:26:10 GMT -5
Agree with most of this, but is our team competitive because we've gotten better year over year or because the BE has regressed in general? Would lean towards the latter on this. The other thing is: do you think Ewing has improved in his in-game coaching and decision making in Year 2 vs Year 1? I haven't seen much if any evidence of that, but curious to know if you see it differently. I think we more competitive this year as whole, regardless of whether the Big East is down or not. We look like a stronger unit. Last year, we pretty much had Marcus and Jesse to rely on and that was it. This year we have a backcourt that can score and hit clutch shots in crunch at times, we have a capable 3-pt shooter off the bench Malinowski. We have glue-guy, hustle player in LeBlanc. Just would have loved to have seen this group playing with Marcus. I like his recruiting and evaluation of talent. The 3 freshmen are contributors. Malinowski was a great pickup as a graduate transfer. Pickett, although raw, was a good find at the last minute. I like Blair too. Ewing's substitutions and offensive strategy I like. I think he knows what he wants offensively and the team executes it for the most part. My biggest concern with Ewing is defense. Don't really know his defensive philosophy. Remember he coached as an assistant in the NBA. Is college more structured and diverse when it comes defensive sets than the NBA? Agree the freshmen this year and Malinowski have been a positive. Recruiting from last year needs to be built on for this year, though. Absent an impact spring commit, that will take a step back. Had Marcus stayed and taken the bulk of the minutes currently being used up by Pickett and Mourning I think this would have been a completely different team. But the blow would've been softened in Pickett had taken the sophomore leap many of us thought he was capable of. He hasn't. I don't put this entirely on Pat but it's not a checkmark on his side at the moment. Offensively, I do like what he's been able to do in general. We are a much better halfcourt offense than what most people give us credit for, but for all the talk of playing faster, we're still a team that struggles mightily in transition. And against the better coached teams that can throw multiple defensive looks against us, we also struggle to adjust. Substitution-wise, we'll have to disagree. Last night was just the latest in a long line of examples where he fell short. We can agree that defense, in terms of both scheme and effort, remains the biggest and most perplexing concern. I agree with 2003 and TC in that I don't think Ewing should get 5-6 years to turn this around. In order to start landing some of the high impact recruits we've missed out on for awhile now, the improvement shown on the court and on the sidelines has to be tangible. And in a hurry. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 22, 2019 11:32:25 GMT -5
Problem is people want immediate results now. It is only year 2. Not year 4 or 5. St. John's is in year 4 for Mullin. They are just now starting to get off the ground as a program. Leitao is in his 4th season in DePaul look to be making "some" progress. We fired our last coach after 2 bad years. Ewing isn't going to get 5 years to turn this around. The fanbase will turn. He gets four years before any groundswell - and I think we'll be fine by then. |
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 22, 2019 11:33:24 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I trust the process, but I think the only choice on the table is to hope for the process. Not even two years in, I think it's entirely too early to judge Ewing's tenure and decide what his long-term capabilities are as a coach. As I noted in the game thread last night, I'm disheartened by the continued struggles. It's hard to see clear signs of progress; others do, and I wish I had their optimism.
As for Ewing's coaching so far, I think there are positives and negatives. On the positive side, he has changed the offense in ways that are likely to help us as we grow. Although we haven't yet gotten better, these teams are definitely more interesting to watch than the teams over the final two years of the JTIII era. It's an offense that guards are more likely to play in, and it should help our recruiting. If Ewing can ultimately recruit more talented players, it's an offense in which those players could thrive. He has clearly had success developing players. I look at Govan's progress over the last two years and Kaleb's growth this year, and I think you have to attribute that, at least in part, to coaching. As others have also pointed out, we aren't very good, but we are pretty tough. This team rarely breaks down, and the players don't give up. That doesn't make up for poor execution, but it's certainly something. When you're dealing with 18-22 year old kids, that sort of toughness typically bears on the coaching staff. He also seems to have a good eye on the recruiting trail for what this team needs. Ewing recognized that we needed better guard play, and Akinjo and McClung both are improvements over the final years of the JTIII era. More importantly, they are both freshmen and have years to develop in his system. LeBlanc has all kinds of potential, and Pickett, if he puts things together, could still do big things at Georgetown. Not bad for a coach in his first two years.
There are certainly red flags, though. Our defense is terrible, and it's hard not to blame some of that on poor fundamentals. I doubt that this team would ever be elite defensively. We don't have that kind of talent. But it's frustrating that we seem to make basic mistakes, like over-helping, not boxing out, not adjusting defensively, over and over again. Maybe we don't have the personnel to shut down good Big East guards, but I would like to see a more fundamentally sound team on defense. A lot of basketball is about being in the right position. We are rarely in the correct position, and at least some of that goes back to how the players are coached. We also often struggle to respond in-game to opponent adjustments, and we do not adjust effectively at the end of games. In late-game situations, our players struggle to use good judgment, often make bad decisions, and don't seem to have an expectation of winning. Some of that is to be expected, but at some point you have to expect improvement. Additionally, I'm not sure that we have an assistant who is really an elite recruiter, the type of coach who can really fill the gaps and land elite talent year in and year out. During the games, it's also hard to see what the staff around Ewing adds.
At this point, we have to let Ewing implement his plan and see where things stand in a few years. As an Alabama football fan, I've had a front-row seat to how the SEC has responded to Nick Saban. There are a number of programs, Tennessee comes to mind, that have fired their coach every couple years when it doesn't seem like things are building in a positive direction. The end result is that they never have continuity in recruiting or direction. There's always a new coach, with a new philosophy, implementing a new direction and trying to recruit new players. It just doesn't work. The end result is that these teams just fall further behind the more established programs (Alabama in my analogy, but you could just as easily compare Georgetown to Villanova in the Big East). We have to have some patience. It's not fun, I'll admit that, but I don't think there's a better option on the table.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jan 22, 2019 11:42:36 GMT -5
Given my locale, its very easy for me to compare the Hoyas with another school with a second year head coach: SDSU with Brian Dutcher. SDSU is also in a "trust the process" moment right now with a first time head coach (Dutcher was Steve Fisher's long time assistant at Michigan and then at SDSU and was "heir apparent". Dutcher is actually a few years older than Ewing.)
SDSU last year was shaky to bad for the first half of the season, and then managed to right the ship towards the end of the season, eventually winning the Mountain West tournament to get an auto bid. This season SDSU has shown occasional signs of quality--but have mixed in getting blown out at home by Brown (yes, that Brown) and at Air Force and Boise. SDSU is a much more upper classmen laden team, but with a big group of freshmen who are basically a bunch of Moses Ayegbas--ridiculously athletic, but far from being prime time contributors. Next year, loses all of their guards, but gains a big time transfer in Malachi Flynn (15.8 pts, 4.3 ast as soph at Wazzu). SDSU also has trouble defensively, and seems to have little idea what to do with opponents zone defenses.
If I had to choose which "system to trust"--I'm definitely going with Pat.
The Hoyas problem this season has been an inability to close out games and/or play a complete 40 minutes. But we are relying heavily on 3 freshmen and still have managed to be in just about every single game. Conversely, the Aztecs have shown they can play 40 minutes, but have also shown that if they get hit in the mouth, they are more likely to fold then fight back. Next year, the Hoyas have one big loss in Jesse--but hopefully get a somewhat like for like trade with Yurt--and otherwise lose (no necessarily unimportant but) peripheral players in Kaleb, Tre and Greg---while SDSU loses effectively its entire back court and likely as well 6'10" jumping bean (and frustrating good Brandon/bad Brandon-esque sophomore) Jalen McDaniels. Hoyas freshmen are contributing now and one would have to believe they will only get better next year--SDSU has one freshman center who is starting to emerge, but all of them are VERY raw and who knows what they will be like next year...
I understand that its not an either/or proposition here, but I just put this out there for perspective. The Hoyas are frustrating because in many ways they seem SOOOO CLOSE to being a good, fun team--but have not yet been able to consistently put it together. But while the progress has felt slow, its unmistakable. Whereas, SDSU faithful are pulling their hair out because while they have also been told to "trust the process", its unclear that there has been any progress at all.
Before the season, I was convinced that Hoyas would be a fringe tournament team. I suppose we could still get there, but I'll admit now we aren't as good as I had hoped. But I still feel we are seeing the right things and think its only fair to give a little bit more patience to "the process". Next year is an unbearably long way away, but could be very special if all goes right. If it doesn't, I'll reassess.
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