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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Jun 7, 2018 10:43:44 GMT -5
College kids in dorms will be college kids. Also the student athletes have crazy hours if you include late nights righting papers and prepping for exams. Eating late and lack of sleep are 2 things that kill anybody's diet. Derrickson's meals and rest are being prop managed now that he only has to focus on preparing for his professional career. Only so much coaching staffs can do within their 20-25 hours a week. Coaches are able to manage meals on game days and road trips but outside of that, not much the staff can do. How has it worked out so well for players like Spellman or Myles Powell? Times have changed, programs can supply unlimited meals & snacks for players now.. www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/sports/ncaabasketball/more-smoothies-less-soda-as-athletic-departments-focus-on-nutrition.htmlTo understand just how much the influence of nutrition has grown in college basketball recently, consider Marquette, the No. 10 seed in the East region. For years, the team had relied upon a local greasy spoon, The Broken Yolk, to cater meals. But last spring, the mother of guard Katin Reinhardt mentioned to Kellaher that she had read that the Los Angeles Lakers and other N.B.A. teams had started partnering with the grocer Whole Foods. Wojciechowski looked into it. The Golden Eagles now have their own deal with Whole Foods for breakfasts and lunches, not to mention non-G.M.O. gummies and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches on sprouted grain bread for plane rides. I had breakfast once at the Broken Yolk (upon high recommendation from an MU student)-- that food was pretty gross.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Jun 7, 2018 10:43:45 GMT -5
New toy syndrome. Why are we putting down past Hoyas to prop up new ones. I like how we assume the newer ones are better competitors, mentally tougher alpha types without seeing them play here. JT3 brought in higher recruiting classes than what Ewing has done so far. A lot of after the fact analysis being done.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Jun 7, 2018 10:54:52 GMT -5
I don't know about you, but I don't want our guys working to cut weight mid-season. MD and others have done quite well in off-season workouts and conditioning and I believe he played last year in the best shape he had ever been in. These training regimes that take off 25 lbs in two months cannot be done mid-season as they leave a player literally and figuratively depleted.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 7, 2018 10:57:56 GMT -5
New toy syndrome. Why are we putting down past Hoyas to prop up new ones. I like how we assume the newer ones are better competitors, mentally tougher alpha types without seeing them play here. JT3 brought in higher recruiting classes than what Ewing has done so far. A lot of after the fact analysis being done. You are right in that, at best, it's too early to even know and make comparisons. It's easy for people to rag on players who have already played for us and who didn't get the team to where it should be. I felt the same way about Nate Lubick, when people were ripping him for doing a New York internship. For all the talk about student-athletes and Georgetown being different, a lot of fans were very unhappy when Lubick decided to actually take a step that might actually help him create a future for himself beyond basketball (especially when it wasn't clear that Lubbick wasn't working out, etc., in his spare time to get better - but people assumed he wasn't). Personally, I think it's great that Lubick did that. Similarly, I never got the anger about Josh Smith's weight. The guy came to Georgetown when he was massively overweight, and did lose a good amount of weight before/during Georgetown, it just wasn't as much as we wanted. And people constantly rip him, even though he was actually a quite effective player for us on offense in years where we didn't have a lot of weapons. His lack of eligibility is a different issue, of course. If anything, a guy like Sweetney shows why it's silly to rip players, because we almost never have the full story.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Jun 7, 2018 11:15:02 GMT -5
Are we really asking why players are in better shape once they leave college and pursue a professional career? Come on...
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 7, 2018 11:37:07 GMT -5
How has it worked out so well for players like Spellman or Myles Powell? Times have changed, programs can supply unlimited meals & snacks for players now.. www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/sports/ncaabasketball/more-smoothies-less-soda-as-athletic-departments-focus-on-nutrition.htmlTo understand just how much the influence of nutrition has grown in college basketball recently, consider Marquette, the No. 10 seed in the East region. For years, the team had relied upon a local greasy spoon, The Broken Yolk, to cater meals. But last spring, the mother of guard Katin Reinhardt mentioned to Kellaher that she had read that the Los Angeles Lakers and other N.B.A. teams had started partnering with the grocer Whole Foods. Wojciechowski looked into it. The Golden Eagles now have their own deal with Whole Foods for breakfasts and lunches, not to mention non-G.M.O. gummies and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches on sprouted grain bread for plane rides. The summer offseason isn't official until Etomic starts a conversation regarding the program's conditioning program lol... Spellman and Powell were very fat in high school. Hugely outta shape and have never worked on their bodies or got into any kind of shape. Sorry not trying to fat shame them, just speaking truth! Derrickson did the same body change during his year at Brewster that Spellman and Powell did before their freshman season. I bet you the kind of physical shape Spellman is in right now makes his physical transition during his redshirt year look like a joke. Powell himself could be in much greater shape. Alonzo Mourning was in great shape during his 4 years at Georgetown but I remember being shocked at his transformation the first time I saw him in a Hornets jersey. Yes programs can provide all the healthy meals and snacks they want but they can't force feed the players 24 hours a day what they want them to eat and make sure they are getting proper rest like agents can in preparing their clients for the professional ranks. Based on what I saw in Coach Ewing's first season, the conditioning program is working. All the players looked to be in much better shape and physical conditioning then they did years prior but they will never be in the shape that players who have 24 hours a day to focus on one goal of getting in the best shape of their lives for their career opportunity. Technically I didn't start the discussion this time, BigsRus did but I was happy to join in.. No better time to talk about it than in the off-season right? Hahaha.. You're right about Spellman & Powell being very overweight in HS however both got in shape in college, if you read their fitness stories both kids credit the strength coaches employed by their programs with helping them out with training & nutrition.. My question has been, who's that person in the Gtown program? The dude @ Nova took Spellman on trips to Whole Foods to teach him about what's best for him to eat.. I get that there's some personal responsibility in this on the players part but I truly don't see why the Gtown can't hold players accountable the same way agents do? As referenced above Seton Hall & Nova did it with players in their programs, that's what the new guy at Uconn is talking about doing there..
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 7, 2018 12:00:41 GMT -5
We need to do more in the conditioning department- I don’t think folks disagree on this. We want players to be their best while here.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 7, 2018 12:05:01 GMT -5
I felt the same way about Nate Lubick, when people were ripping him for doing a New York internship. For all the talk about student-athletes and Georgetown being different, a lot of fans were very unhappy when Lubick decided to actually take a step that might actually help him create a future for himself beyond basketball (especially when it wasn't clear that Lubbick wasn't working out, etc., in his spare time to get better - but people assumed he wasn't). Personally, I think it's great that Lubick did that. He started 111 games, is in the top 25 career list for rebounds, and shot 57 percent from the floor. If he knew he wasn't going to be Jared Dudley or something, that's fine, but he has a Georgetown degree and works as a institutional trader on Wall Street, so it worked out for him, moreso than if he was left wandering through the Phillipines or Uruguay leagues because that's all he has to work with. Weight training is often overrated in college basketball. The Thompson era players weren't all about the weight room but they were well conditioned and never, never tired in games, something Thompson learned from Red Auerbach. How long would Josh Smith have made it in that system?
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 7, 2018 12:10:13 GMT -5
We need to do more of what it takes to win! Whatever that is.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jun 7, 2018 12:20:21 GMT -5
Looks good. He was listed at 6'7, 250. If the weight loss helps his foot speed and lateral movement, it's a good thing. But simply losing the weight (6'7, 230?) isn't enough, if it's not moved to the right places--otherwise he'll get pushed around by NBA players and posted up.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 7, 2018 13:08:50 GMT -5
Weight training is often overrated in college basketball. This is definitely true. I think weight training and conditioning is key for certain aspects of the game, obviously - stamina, defense, etc. But some of the other technical skills - namely shooting - are possibly even more important. The way I view it is that strength and conditioning definitely matters to some extent. For example, if you are overweight or can't stay on the floor, that's a problem. However, once you get into shape, there's only so much more you are going to gain from going the extra mile. Granted, if you want to be in the NBA, you better do everything you can. While there's always room for improvement, I didn't see an out of shape team last year. Marcus Derrickson was most certainly in pretty good shape, and as others said, it's arguable that losing 25 pounds would not have necessarily made him a better player. But ultimately, what made Derrickson so valuable? He could put the ball in the basket, and he could do it with a high level of consistency all over the floor. That's really what was key. I guess put another way, if I could choose between upping everybody's shooting percentage by 5% or gaining a little more muscle, I would take the first option every time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 13:28:11 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 7, 2018 13:42:41 GMT -5
Weight training is often overrated in college basketball. This is definitely true. I think weight training and conditioning is key for certain aspects of the game, obviously - stamina, defense, etc. But some of the other technical skills - namely shooting - are possibly even more important. The way I view it is that strength and conditioning definitely matters to some extent. For example, if you are overweight or can't stay on the floor, that's a problem. However, once you get into shape, there's only so much more you are going to gain from going the extra mile. Granted, if you want to be in the NBA, you better do everything you can. While there's always room for improvement, I didn't see an out of shape team last year. Marcus Derrickson was most certainly in pretty good shape, and as others said, it's arguable that losing 25 pounds would not have necessarily made him a better player. But ultimately, what made Derrickson so valuable? He could put the ball in the basket, and he could do it with a high level of consistency all over the floor. That's really what was key. I guess put another way, if I could choose between upping everybody's shooting percentage by 5% or gaining a little more muscle, I would take the first option every time. MD stated in an interview that the weight loss has helped him a "ton", his word not mine.. Says he's moving laterally & vertically much better now and that his knees feel much better.. Why can't we have both a higher shooting % plus players with more muscle?
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 7, 2018 15:24:50 GMT -5
How about we just recruit kids that are physically fit and can shoot. Solves all problems. Recruiting is the most important piece and Pat seems to be on it.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jun 7, 2018 16:53:53 GMT -5
This is definitely true. I think weight training and conditioning is key for certain aspects of the game, obviously - stamina, defense, etc. But some of the other technical skills - namely shooting - are possibly even more important. The way I view it is that strength and conditioning definitely matters to some extent. For example, if you are overweight or can't stay on the floor, that's a problem. However, once you get into shape, there's only so much more you are going to gain from going the extra mile. Granted, if you want to be in the NBA, you better do everything you can. While there's always room for improvement, I didn't see an out of shape team last year. Marcus Derrickson was most certainly in pretty good shape, and as others said, it's arguable that losing 25 pounds would not have necessarily made him a better player. But ultimately, what made Derrickson so valuable? He could put the ball in the basket, and he could do it with a high level of consistency all over the floor. That's really what was key. I guess put another way, if I could choose between upping everybody's shooting percentage by 5% or gaining a little more muscle, I would take the first option every time. MD stated in an interview that the weight loss has helped him a "ton", his word not mine.. Says he's moving laterally & vertically much better now and that his knees feel much better.. He is essentially interviewing for a job...what do you expect him to say? hm
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 7, 2018 21:52:05 GMT -5
Why can't we have both a higher shooting % plus players with more muscle? I am good with that!
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Jun 8, 2018 1:39:38 GMT -5
At the end of the day, Derrickson improved greatly in his one year under PE. That’s a positive sign. PE has spent over 30 years in the NBA where strength, conditioning and nutrition are key facets that are taken very seriously. As PE continues to build the program my guess is this area will be taken seriously as well, and hopefully we get the “clues” to show it.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jun 8, 2018 6:52:31 GMT -5
I agree we need a good strength and conditioning program that also incorporates nutrition. None of us really know what is implemented already though. I will say, the Hoyas combined all looked in way better condition this year than in years past. They all admitted as such. I would say a good sign for year 1. Ewing gets it, I wouldn't worry.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 8, 2018 9:36:20 GMT -5
We should just land the top kids in every class that don't have the same holes in either their games or their stamina/strength that the rest of the kids in the class have. Sounds easy.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 9, 2018 6:03:07 GMT -5
At the end of the day, Derrickson improved greatly in his one year under PE. That’s a positive sign. PE has spent over 30 years in the NBA where strength, conditioning and nutrition are key facets that are taken very seriously. As PE continues to build the program my guess is this area will be taken seriously as well, and hopefully we get the “clues” to show it. Seems to me he'd want to make strength & conditioning plus nutrition a top priority right away, especially when you consider that he wants to play.. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19749204/strength-conditioning-coaches-all-rage-college-basketball
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