prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 6, 2018 13:29:04 GMT -5
I've said this before, but I don't see why it's surprising to anybody that once a student-athlete essentially transforms into a professional athlete (focusing nearly 24/7 on the themselves and the game), that they might lose weight and become more fit. I am sure if you look at even some of the top draft picks, that once they go into workouts and/or join the league, that the same thing happens. Derrickson got into amazing shape right before coming to Georgetown compared to where he was in high school, when he was significantly heavier. I recall his completing a half marathon about that time, too. So clearly the effort was there. Admittedly, I don't know much about our strength and conditioning efforts, and there may be plenty of room for improvement there. I just don't think evidence of new professional athletes getting into better shape is surprising or unique to Georgetown's former student-athletes. First, they are not professional athletes yet in March after their last game of the season. Second, under your point of view, student athletes have almost 24/7 time to get into their best shape possible from mid-May to mid-August every school year. That’s more time than the 6-week Austin Freeman Going Pro Regime. Finally, you admit that you don’t know much about our s&c efforts. We have great resources at GU, yet it’s about the player having the desire and being motivated to be the best he can be year after year, not right after his last game in a Hoya uniform. It’s the saying you can bring the horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Not to worry, the days of GU softness are gone. JT3 got beta players; Ewing is bringing the alpha ones...
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Post by centercourt400s on Jun 6, 2018 13:39:48 GMT -5
I've said this before, but I don't see why it's surprising to anybody that once a student-athlete essentially transforms into a professional athlete (focusing nearly 24/7 on the themselves and the game), that they might lose weight and become more fit. I am sure if you look at even some of the top draft picks, that once they go into workouts and/or join the league, that the same thing happens. Derrickson got into amazing shape right before coming to Georgetown compared to where he was in high school, when he was significantly heavier. I recall his completing a half marathon about that time, too. So clearly the effort was there. Admittedly, I don't know much about our strength and conditioning efforts, and there may be plenty of room for improvement there. I just don't think evidence of new professional athletes getting into better shape is surprising or unique to Georgetown's former student-athletes. First, they are not professional athletes yet in March after their last game of the season. Second, under your point of view, student athletes have almost 24/7 time to get into their best shape possible from mid-May to mid-August every school year. That’s more time than the 6-week Austin Freeman Going Pro Regime. Finally, you admit that you don’t know much about our s&c efforts. We have great resources at GU, yet it’s about the player having the desire and being motivated to be the best he can be year after year, not right after his last game in a Hoya uniform. Not to worry, the days of GU softness are gone. JT3 got beta players; Ewing is bringing the alpha ones... #3 draft pick and max NBA contract owner Otto Porter says hello...
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jun 6, 2018 13:43:47 GMT -5
First, they are not professional athletes yet in March after their last game of the season. Second, under your point of view, student athletes have almost 24/7 time to get into their best shape possible from mid-May to mid-August every school year. That’s more time than the 6-week Austin Freeman Going Pro Regime. Finally, you admit that you don’t know much about our s&c efforts. We have great resources at GU, yet it’s about the player having the desire and being motivated to be the best he can be year after year, not right after his last game in a Hoya uniform. Not to worry, the days of GU softness are gone. JT3 got beta players; Ewing is bringing the alpha ones... #3 draft pick and max NBA contract owner Otto Porter says hello... Thank Coach Kirby!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 6, 2018 15:24:22 GMT -5
First, they are not professional athletes yet in March after their last game of the season. Second, under your point of view, student athletes have almost 24/7 time to get into their best shape possible from mid-May to mid-August every school year. That’s more time than the 6-week Austin Freeman Going Pro Regime. Finally, you admit that you don’t know much about our s&c efforts. We have great resources at GU, yet it’s about the player having the desire and being motivated to be the best he can be year after year, not right after his last game in a Hoya uniform. It’s the saying you can bring the horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Not to worry, the days of GU softness are gone. JT3 got beta players; Ewing is bringing the alpha ones... There's no doubt the motivation of getting to the NBA is the key influence here. Should Derrickson have been motivated to be in top shape previously? Maybe, but it's hard for players to constantly give 100%. Think about a lot of people who diet, have success, and then end up going back in the other direction. To expect guys - many of whom are teenagers - to have the discipline to be in top shape at all times is, I think, unreasonable. It's a lot easier for someone like Derrickson to give it his all and full effort from April-June in an effort to make the NBA, compared to doing that over 3 years. As far as mid-May to August, my understanding is that the basketball players do take summer courses in June, then they have Kenner in the summer, and who knows what else they do volunteering, etc. But you're right. There really is no excuse for a basketball player to be out of shape or not taking efforts to improve themselves from May-August, unless they are working or doing other activities that take their time away from that (and that's not necessarily a bad thing). And you're also right about the mentality of the players. Guys like Josh Smith were going to struggle no matter who the coach was. There's no magic that will give guys effort they don't have.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jun 6, 2018 16:07:44 GMT -5
I happen to know a couple of agents, inc Marcus representation. From what I am told, almost all of these guys get in the best shape of their lives during this time before the combines and the draft. Same in college football. Even the guys leaving Alabama can be transformed in a couple of months...despite being driven by a madman in Nick Saban. Its just how it is and is not in any way an indictment of the college coach.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jun 6, 2018 16:50:34 GMT -5
I think that it is understandable that a kid who is a full time student at a strong academic institution, surrounded by friends, living in the dorms and practicing and playing basketball all year, is not going to have the same time and ability to maximize conditioning as someone who essentially drops out, isolates themselves and makes conditioning a full time job for three months.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 6, 2018 17:36:04 GMT -5
I think that it is understandable that a kid who is a full time student at a strong academic institution, surrounded by friends, living in the dorms and practicing and playing basketball all year, is not going to have the same time and ability to maximize conditioning as someone who essentially drops out, isolates themselves and makes conditioning a full time job for three months. Maybe a kid can't maximize their conditioning in that setting but they can come close right? As you've stated they're practicing & playing basketball all year that alone should give them a nice headstart.. As for the academic part that keeps getting brought up, I don't see how a kid on scholarship with access to a lot of resources can't find the time be in very good shape year round.. If they took 6 hours a day for class & study time, 10 for sleep(8 at night plus a nap during the day) they'd still have 8 hours to play ball, train & eat well & hang with friends.. To me, time is not the issue, discipline & structure are so that's where a dedicated team can come in handy for a program.. PE made sure to hire a PR person when he agreed to be the coach, is it too much to ask that he hire a dedicated performance coach like Hurley has done at Uconn? The statement below speaks volumes imho.. www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-sp-sal-alosi-uconn-men-basketball-20180530-story.html“We will build a 24-hour wellness program, where the time spent off the court and out of the weight room will be emphasized just as much as the time spent training,” he said in the statement. “We will be educating our team about how to eat, how to sleep, how to hydrate, how to recover -- establishing a game plan in all areas that can have a positive impact when it comes to on-court performance. There is a much greater commitment than just running and lifting. Ultimately, the tools we teach our players here will benefit them on and off the court, and long after their time at UConn.”
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jun 6, 2018 18:40:04 GMT -5
Agree completely that a performance/conditioning coach would be a welcomed improvement for the program. It would provide the structure and discipline needed to maximize conditioning. My kids' benefited from that at much less prestigious programs than Georgetown in their sports. Absent that, I do not think it is any shock that MD or the overwhelming majority of these players would be more successful focusing only on conditioning than while at school.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jun 6, 2018 19:09:16 GMT -5
I think that it is understandable that a kid who is a full time student at a strong academic institution, surrounded by friends, living in the dorms and practicing and playing basketball all year, is not going to have the same time and ability to maximize conditioning as someone who essentially drops out, isolates themselves and makes conditioning a full time job for three months. Maybe a kid can't maximize their conditioning in that setting but they can come close right? As you've stated they're practicing & playing basketball all year that alone should give them a nice headstart.. As for the academic part that keeps getting brought up, I don't see how a kid on scholarship with access to a lot of resources can't find the time be in very good shape year round.. If they took 6 hours a day for class & study time, 10 for sleep(8 at night plus a nap during the day) they'd still have 8 hours to play ball, train & eat well & hang with friends.. To me, time is not the issue, discipline & structure are so that's where a dedicated team can come in handy for a program.. PE made sure to hire a PR person when he agreed to be the coach, is it too much to ask that he hire a dedicated performance coach like Hurley has done at Uconn? The statement below speaks volumes imho.. www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-sp-sal-alosi-uconn-men-basketball-20180530-story.html“We will build a 24-hour wellness program, where the time spent off the court and out of the weight room will be emphasized just as much as the time spent training,” he said in the statement. “We will be educating our team about how to eat, how to sleep, how to hydrate, how to recover -- establishing a game plan in all areas that can have a positive impact when it comes to on-court performance. There is a much greater commitment than just running and lifting. Ultimately, the tools we teach our players here will benefit them on and off the court, and long after their time at UConn.”I still don't understand how this baffles so many people that no matter what shape an athlete is in during the season, they're going to get into better shape when the season ends and they're preparing for the draft. I'd say on average D1 football and basketball players spend about 30-40 hours a week on athletic activities. Ignore the NCAAs "20hr/week" bylaw because it just doesn't happen. No one is sleeping 10 hours a day. They might do 1-2 hours of strength and conditioning in the morning, 2-3 hours of practice during the day, but you're probably in the training room an hour early to get treatment or get your ankles taped, or whatever the case maybe, maybe you've got another hour or 2 of film time and meetings. So you're dedicating a full time job's worth of time already, then you've got class and homework that has to get done. When the season ends, you get back 4-5 more hours of time to STRICTLY work on strength and conditioning, agility drills, and individual basketball drills. You're not spending that time going over film, working on your offense, or working on defensive strategy for you next game. Instead of 1-2 hours of individual work, now you've got 5-6 in a day. I don't see it as any different than people prepping for the MCAT or the boards or whatever, sure I'm studying and learning the material as I go along, maybe I review things every night, but I am most definitely going to give it everything I've got for 8 weeks or however long before my test date.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Jun 6, 2018 21:25:58 GMT -5
Strange how players like Smith, Freeman and Derrickson carried around extra weight at GU only to get trim in a matter of months post college. We need to up our conditioning game. Or / and focus on what they are eating.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 6, 2018 22:28:10 GMT -5
Maybe a kid can't maximize their conditioning in that setting but they can come close right? As you've stated they're practicing & playing basketball all year that alone should give them a nice headstart.. As for the academic part that keeps getting brought up, I don't see how a kid on scholarship with access to a lot of resources can't find the time be in very good shape year round.. If they took 6 hours a day for class & study time, 10 for sleep(8 at night plus a nap during the day) they'd still have 8 hours to play ball, train & eat well & hang with friends.. To me, time is not the issue, discipline & structure are so that's where a dedicated team can come in handy for a program.. PE made sure to hire a PR person when he agreed to be the coach, is it too much to ask that he hire a dedicated performance coach like Hurley has done at Uconn? The statement below speaks volumes imho.. www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-sp-sal-alosi-uconn-men-basketball-20180530-story.html“We will build a 24-hour wellness program, where the time spent off the court and out of the weight room will be emphasized just as much as the time spent training,” he said in the statement. “We will be educating our team about how to eat, how to sleep, how to hydrate, how to recover -- establishing a game plan in all areas that can have a positive impact when it comes to on-court performance. There is a much greater commitment than just running and lifting. Ultimately, the tools we teach our players here will benefit them on and off the court, and long after their time at UConn.”I still don't understand how this baffles so many people that no matter what shape an athlete is in during the season, they're going to get into better shape when the season ends and they're preparing for the draft. I'd say on average D1 football and basketball players spend about 30-40 hours a week on athletic activities. Ignore the NCAAs "20hr/week" bylaw because it just doesn't happen. No one is sleeping 10 hours a day. They might do 1-2 hours of strength and conditioning in the morning, 2-3 hours of practice during the day, but you're probably in the training room an hour early to get treatment or get your ankles taped, or whatever the case maybe, maybe you've got another hour or 2 of film time and meetings. So you're dedicating a full time job's worth of time already, then you've got class and homework that has to get done. When the season ends, you get back 4-5 more hours of time to STRICTLY work on strength and conditioning, agility drills, and individual basketball drills. You're not spending that time going over film, working on your offense, or working on defensive strategy for you next game. Instead of 1-2 hours of individual work, now you've got 5-6 in a day. I don't see it as any different than people prepping for the MCAT or the boards or whatever, sure I'm studying and learning the material as I go along, maybe I review things every night, but I am most definitely going to give it everything I've got for 8 weeks or however long before my test date. To me what you're stating is relative, sure kids will get in "better" shape after the season is over but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been in "better" shape coming into the season and during it.. As I posted previously much of the change MD has gone through can probably be chalked up to nutrition more than anything which is something the program should help players with as much as possible..
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 7, 2018 0:07:21 GMT -5
Strange how players like Smith, Freeman and Derrickson carried around extra weight at GU only to get trim in a matter of months post college. We need to up our conditioning game. Or / and focus on what they are eating. Bingo, not only are they working out constantly but they have full time nutritionist monitoring every calorie they put in their body. No late night Pizza run, no cookies or late night snacks. In Derrickson's case they probably minamized his carb intake to really burn the weight off. Only so much a college coaching staff can do.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 7, 2018 0:15:06 GMT -5
I still don't understand how this baffles so many people that no matter what shape an athlete is in during the season, they're going to get into better shape when the season ends and they're preparing for the draft. I'd say on average D1 football and basketball players spend about 30-40 hours a week on athletic activities. Ignore the NCAAs "20hr/week" bylaw because it just doesn't happen. No one is sleeping 10 hours a day. They might do 1-2 hours of strength and conditioning in the morning, 2-3 hours of practice during the day, but you're probably in the training room an hour early to get treatment or get your ankles taped, or whatever the case maybe, maybe you've got another hour or 2 of film time and meetings. So you're dedicating a full time job's worth of time already, then you've got class and homework that has to get done. When the season ends, you get back 4-5 more hours of time to STRICTLY work on strength and conditioning, agility drills, and individual basketball drills. You're not spending that time going over film, working on your offense, or working on defensive strategy for you next game. Instead of 1-2 hours of individual work, now you've got 5-6 in a day. I don't see it as any different than people prepping for the MCAT or the boards or whatever, sure I'm studying and learning the material as I go along, maybe I review things every night, but I am most definitely going to give it everything I've got for 8 weeks or however long before my test date. To me what you're stating is relative, sure kids will get in "better" shape after the season is over but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been in "better" shape coming into the season and during it.. As I posted previously much of the change MD has gone through can probably be chalked up to nutrition more than anything which is something the program should help players with as much as possible.. College kids in dorms will be college kids. Also the student athletes have crazy hours if you include late nights righting papers and prepping for exams. Eating late and lack of sleep are 2 things that kill anybody's diet. Derrickson's meals and rest are being prop managed now that he only has to focus on preparing for his professional career. Only so much coaching staffs can do within their 20-25 hours a week. Coaches are able to manage meals on game days and road trips but outside of that, not much the staff can do.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 7, 2018 2:40:24 GMT -5
You see as far as I'm concerned Derrickson was in great shape, especially last season. What he has done since the season was over was to lose a lot of weight but the weight he lost was muscle, not fat. And if he hadn't had that muscle this past season I don't know if he would have been as effective. Derrickson is never going to be quick or explosive. He also is at disadvantage in the paint when it comes to height. What made him stand out was his combination of feathery touch and long distance range on the perimeter with the ability to score very effectively in the paint. Don't think he would have been such a force in the interior without that strength to hold off or back down taller guys in the post. Is he trying to be a SF in the NBA? Not sure if that will work nor am I convinced that his shedding pounds will lead to quicker feet to guard better on the perimeter. I felt he needed to make the league as a poor man's Draymond : a better shooter, worse and less athletic defender but with strength and moves to be able to score inside at times when needed despite being shorter than his defenders.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 7, 2018 6:11:26 GMT -5
To me what you're stating is relative, sure kids will get in "better" shape after the season is over but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been in "better" shape coming into the season and during it.. As I posted previously much of the change MD has gone through can probably be chalked up to nutrition more than anything which is something the program should help players with as much as possible.. College kids in dorms will be college kids. Also the student athletes have crazy hours if you include late nights righting papers and prepping for exams. Eating late and lack of sleep are 2 things that kill anybody's diet. Derrickson's meals and rest are being prop managed now that he only has to focus on preparing for his professional career. Only so much coaching staffs can do within their 20-25 hours a week. Coaches are able to manage meals on game days and road trips but outside of that, not much the staff can do. How has it worked out so well for players like Spellman or Myles Powell? Times have changed, programs can supply unlimited meals & snacks for players now.. www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/sports/ncaabasketball/more-smoothies-less-soda-as-athletic-departments-focus-on-nutrition.htmlTo understand just how much the influence of nutrition has grown in college basketball recently, consider Marquette, the No. 10 seed in the East region. For years, the team had relied upon a local greasy spoon, The Broken Yolk, to cater meals. But last spring, the mother of guard Katin Reinhardt mentioned to Kellaher that she had read that the Los Angeles Lakers and other N.B.A. teams had started partnering with the grocer Whole Foods. Wojciechowski looked into it. The Golden Eagles now have their own deal with Whole Foods for breakfasts and lunches, not to mention non-G.M.O. gummies and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches on sprouted grain bread for plane rides.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 7, 2018 6:41:25 GMT -5
Or / and focus on what they are eating. Bingo, not only are they working out constantly but they have full time nutritionist monitoring every calorie they put in their body. No late night Pizza run, no cookies or late night snacks. In Derrickson's case they probably minamized his carb intake to really burn the weight off. Only so much a college coaching staff can do. Agree 100%. Something we are not talking about explicitly is sleep. He is probably being told to get 9 hours a night with an afternoon nap so that his body can recover from all the work. Or he is wearing a Whoop strap that tells him exactly how much sleep he needs and is getting. At the highest level of many sports, the ability to recover becomes an aspect of competition, and sleep is the best way to recover.
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Filo
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Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Jun 7, 2018 8:38:41 GMT -5
I think that it is understandable that a kid who is a full time student at a strong academic institution, surrounded by friends, living in the dorms and practicing and playing basketball all year, is not going to have the same time and ability to maximize conditioning as someone who essentially drops out, isolates themselves and makes conditioning a full time job for three months. Maybe a kid can't maximize their conditioning in that setting but they can come close right? As you've stated they're practicing & playing basketball all year that alone should give them a nice headstart.. As for the academic part that keeps getting brought up, I don't see how a kid on scholarship with access to a lot of resources can't find the time be in very good shape year round.. If they took 6 hours a day for class & study time, 10 for sleep(8 at night plus a nap during the day) they'd still have 8 hours to play ball, train & eat well & hang with friends.. To me, time is not the issue, discipline & structure are so that's where a dedicated team can come in handy for a program.. PE made sure to hire a PR person when he agreed to be the coach, is it too much to ask that he hire a dedicated performance coach like Hurley has done at Uconn? The statement below speaks volumes imho.. www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-sp-sal-alosi-uconn-men-basketball-20180530-story.html“We will build a 24-hour wellness program, where the time spent off the court and out of the weight room will be emphasized just as much as the time spent training,” he said in the statement. “We will be educating our team about how to eat, how to sleep, how to hydrate, how to recover -- establishing a game plan in all areas that can have a positive impact when it comes to on-court performance. There is a much greater commitment than just running and lifting. Ultimately, the tools we teach our players here will benefit them on and off the court, and long after their time at UConn.”You are just making me laugh. Don't know about you, and maybe you are the just super-dude with an iron will, but I was 18 and in college once (a looong time ago). I worked while in school, but didn't have what is basically a full-time job while an undergrad. Give it a rest.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 7, 2018 8:47:18 GMT -5
College kids in dorms will be college kids. Also the student athletes have crazy hours if you include late nights righting papers and prepping for exams. Eating late and lack of sleep are 2 things that kill anybody's diet. Derrickson's meals and rest are being prop managed now that he only has to focus on preparing for his professional career. Only so much coaching staffs can do within their 20-25 hours a week. Coaches are able to manage meals on game days and road trips but outside of that, not much the staff can do. How has it worked out so well for players like Spellman or Myles Powell? Times have changed, programs can supply unlimited meals & snacks for players now.. www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/sports/ncaabasketball/more-smoothies-less-soda-as-athletic-departments-focus-on-nutrition.htmlTo understand just how much the influence of nutrition has grown in college basketball recently, consider Marquette, the No. 10 seed in the East region. For years, the team had relied upon a local greasy spoon, The Broken Yolk, to cater meals. But last spring, the mother of guard Katin Reinhardt mentioned to Kellaher that she had read that the Los Angeles Lakers and other N.B.A. teams had started partnering with the grocer Whole Foods. Wojciechowski looked into it. The Golden Eagles now have their own deal with Whole Foods for breakfasts and lunches, not to mention non-G.M.O. gummies and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches on sprouted grain bread for plane rides. The summer offseason isn't official until Etomic starts a conversation regarding the program's conditioning program lol... Spellman and Powell were very fat in high school. Hugely outta shape and have never worked on their bodies or got into any kind of shape. Sorry not trying to fat shame them, just speaking truth! Derrickson did the same body change during his year at Brewster that Spellman and Powell did before their freshman season. I bet you the kind of physical shape Spellman is in right now makes his physical transition during his redshirt year look like a joke. Powell himself could be in much greater shape. Alonzo Mourning was in great shape during his 4 years at Georgetown but I remember being shocked at his transformation the first time I saw him in a Hornets jersey. Yes programs can provide all the healthy meals and snacks they want but they can't force feed the players 24 hours a day what they want them to eat and make sure they are getting proper rest like agents can in preparing their clients for the professional ranks. Based on what I saw in Coach Ewing's first season, the conditioning program is working. All the players looked to be in much better shape and physical conditioning then they did years prior but they will never be in the shape that players who have 24 hours a day to focus on one goal of getting in the best shape of their lives for their career opportunity.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,316
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Post by prhoya on Jun 7, 2018 9:01:49 GMT -5
It’s all about alpha players. Take it from Mac: “People are just different.” I’m looking forward to seeing what Jessie does with his last college summer conditioning-wise.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 7, 2018 9:38:45 GMT -5
Question for those who know these things: What type of resources do guys like Derrickson get when they declare for the draft? For example, do the agents that guys like Derrickson sign with put them on programs, etc. because it's in the agent's interest for their players to maximize their potential? When they do workouts with NBA teams, do they have access to NBA resources?
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