madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 8, 2018 7:48:17 GMT -5
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 8, 2018 7:49:42 GMT -5
Absolutely, positively not. For lack of a better measure, here are our end of season KenPom rankings for the last five years: 2014: 57 2015: 22 2016: 62 2017: 69 2018: 95 (as of 3/7/18) Can you do KenPom defensive rankings last 5 years.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 8, 2018 7:51:16 GMT -5
We didn’t have the guard play to close out tight games. This is Pat’s first year, therefore, mostly not his players. Check back in 3-4 years.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 8, 2018 7:56:23 GMT -5
Stj had a worse team and they won... they worked harder and got everything they wanted at the rim. We continue to be soft and slow on defense. No one helps, no one Talent wise this is a middle of BE team but we underplayed our level of talent with little to no coaching adjustments and no fire from the players... why no zone? EVEN FOR 2 MINUTES... horrible all around. I have zero expectations for next year because I saw zero progress this year. Im not going to argue that much, and Im not sure why people are either. I mean, aren't we all saying we stunk? Yes, we are all saying we stunk. But some of us are limiting the stink to the "talent on the floor", when the stink resonates much deeper.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 8, 2018 8:27:10 GMT -5
Very disappointing loss last night for the Hoyas. It came down to the fact that St John's had 4 of their players step up in a big game (Ponds, Clark, Simon and Owens) and the Hoyas only had two guys play well. Jessie and Marcus were great last night and their efforts should have been enough for them to win, if they had gotten some help from their teammates. I had said before the game that I thought the Hoyas would win if Marcus played (and he played great) and both Pickett and Blair played OK. They did not need them to be really good last night but they did need them to hit open shots and they just could not get it done last night.(Who would have thought the one freshman to make an impact last night would be Walker, who played really well in the 8 -10 minutes he played.) Georgetown needed someone else to compliment the scoring from Marcus and Jessie and they were not able to get that last night. Having that third consistent scorer has been a problem all year, and even though Pickett/Blair had some good games as the season wore on, they picked a bad night to have a clunker. Blair is normally a good shooter when he gets an open look but last night he could not make anything.
Give St John's credit, they dared anyone, but Jessie and Marcus, to beat them last night and no one could answer the call. Tough way to end what I still think was a promising season. They have questions to answer this off season and need improvement from all their players and need to have incoming players contribute right away for next season to be a significant improvement over this year. Time to get to work!!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 8, 2018 8:34:06 GMT -5
We didn’t have the guard play to close out tight games. This is Pat’s first year, therefore, mostly not his players. Check back in 3-4 years. We haven't had this for some years now.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 8, 2018 8:36:12 GMT -5
Very disappointing loss last night for the Hoyas. It came down to the fact that St John's had 4 of their players step up in a big game (Ponds, Clark, Simon and Owens) and the Hoyas only had two guys play well. Jessie and Marcus were great last night and their efforts should have been enough for them to win, if they had gotten some help from their teammates. I had said before the game that I thought the Hoyas would win if Marcus played (and he played great) and both Pickett and Blair played OK. They did not need them to be really good last night but they did need them to hit open shots and they just could not get it done last night.(Who would have thought the one freshman to make an impact last night would be Walker, who played really well in the 8 -10 minutes he played.) Georgetown needed someone else to compliment the scoring from Marcus and Jessie and they were not able to get that last night. Having that third consistent scorer has been a problem all year, and even though Pickett/Blair had some good games as the season wore on, they picked a bad night to have a clunker. Blair is normally a good shooter when he gets an open look but last night he could not make anything. Give St John's credit, they dared anyone, but Jessie and Marcus, to beat them last night and no one could answer the call. Tough way to end what I still think was a promising season. They have questions to answer this off season and need improvement from all their players and need to have incoming players contribute right away for next season to be a significant improvement over this year. Time to get to work!!!! Believe it or not I knew the Hoyas wouldn't win this game for the simple reason it's hard to beat a team 3 times and St. John's after the Hoyas had beat them those two times had gotten better and beat Duke and Nova. Also, when Mullen told his team this is a new season his team took this seriously.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Mar 8, 2018 8:46:38 GMT -5
To beat Duke and Nova this year, you've gotta have some serious talent. STJU was playing at home, and I also expected to lose. Am very curious to see how they do against Xavier.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 8, 2018 8:54:50 GMT -5
For lack of a better measure, here are our end of season KenPom rankings for the last five years: 2014: 57 2015: 22 2016: 62 2017: 69 2018: 95 (as of 3/7/18) Can you do KenPom defensive rankings last 5 years. Defense only: 2014: 91 2015: 33 2016: 81 2017: 58 2018: 124 It's pretty clear we were considerably worse statistically this year than any of the four previous seasons. To go back to DFW's question, I'd say that we were worse overall this year, but I expected to be worse overall this year given what we were losing. We were probably a bit better overall than I was anticipating. We lost our best overall defender, our top scorer, and the only two guys on the team that were capable of creating their own shot. We didn't really replace those guys with any sort of comparable talent. (The two freshmen that got considerable PT do some things well, but neither can consistently create or defend, at least to this point.) There'll be plenty of time (too much time!) to analyze the season overall, but I was heartened by the improved play of Marcus and Jesse. And I liked the fact that we schemed around our talent. We emphasized them when they were in the game; we tried to get our few shooters some shots when they were in the game; etc. Did we lose a ton of close games down the stretch? Yes. But that happens when you're not as good as the team you're playing! I mean, that doesn't take much analysis. If the game is within a couple of possessions with five minutes left, the better team is going to win the vast majority of the time. And our personnel flaws only heightened this because our "go to" guys were post players that were easy to take away in individual possession situations. Our defense needs to improve. I thought schematically it looked pretty good at the beginning of the year, but that may have been fools gold due to the competition. The challenge there is that our two best players are both pretty poor defenders overall, and none of our guards is a truly plus defender either. There's not much you can do to scheme when your guys simply aren't individually skilled. Which brings me to the old "in game adjustments" canard. It may be that the staff struggled in that regard, but I don't think the results this year can really tell you that. What sort of adjustments should they have made? We didn't really have any other offensive options other than trying to isolate Marcus and Jesse. We tried to feature Jamarko when he was shooting well and ran plays for Blair when he was in there (though just as often he didn't make them). On D? The handful of times I saw us play a zone, it didn't look very good...it requires either Marcus or Jesse to play a wing. I guess I would have preferred that we try a more aggressive full or three-quarter trapping zone defense rather than the soft 1-2-1-1 (that was similar to the soft full-court press that JTIII employed). But, again, our personnel simply may not have permitted it. I'll close with the obvious: We need better players. Period.
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 8, 2018 9:24:10 GMT -5
Game was a microcosm of our season, so the outcome wasn't surprising. We came out strong and looked like we had a plan to execute. Marcus and Jessie, as they've done all year long, carried us offensively and kept us ahead despite the constant poor decision making by our guards. And again, it fell apart in the second half as the other team adjusted and we had no clue how to counter. You look at the inside-the-huddle look ins and a stark contrast between instruction. Ewing telling his guys to keep going... about 7-8x. Mullin telling his guys specifically to get up on Marcus and Pickett and force them to put the ball on the floor. Now, I'm not saying Chris Mullin is anything even resembling a good coach, but one set of instructions was obviously more helpful than the other. For the people pining for a switch to zone just to offer a different look... again I ask, what in the flying you know what is Louis Orr doing on the staff? This is where he's supposed to bring value. I still don't understand why he was brought on. I understand the guys gave a decent effort; it's been better than in years past. And there is a lot of room for returning guys to grow and build upon this year. But I am definitely happy to see some new blood, even if unproven, come in at guard. Just way too many wild out of control plays from Mulmore and Dickerson not just tonight, but all year. I'm done watching them pick up their dribble 45 feet from the basket, driving into traffic to throw up prayers, etc. While I'm high on the frosh like Blair, Pickett and Walker (who had a pretty good game lost in tonight's disaster), I'm left wondering if Mosely is ever going to be a meaningful rotation player on a good team. For a guy who was coached by Bob Hurley, the fundamentals have just gone out the window with this kid. If we can cut out half of the "oops, I forgot to dribble" turnovers we committed this year (and Mosely had a bunch of them), we will add about 2-3 wins next year alone. Time for Pat to not only do work on the recruiting trail, but go back to the drawing board and see where he can improve his in-game tactics. Yes, we need better talent, but the staff cannot continue to punt multiple games a year moving forward because they don't know how to come off an initial game plan and make some in-game adjustments to counter the moves of opposing coaches who know what they're doing. Orr is a joke. Complete failure as a college coach. His only qualification is that he’s a friend of Patrick Ewing’s. Much like Ewing’s only qualification is that he’s a friend of JT2. Our program has become an embarrassment. I blame JT2 and, to a lesser extent, DeGioia, who clearly call all the shots based on emotion and comfort rather than reason. Orr was not a joke nor was he complete failure as a college coach. That is kinda exaggerating it. He struggled at Bowling green, but he did okay at Seton Hall (Two NCAA tournament appearances). He has college head coaching experience. He is qualified as a veteran bench coach.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 8, 2018 10:31:38 GMT -5
Speaking of recruiting, I wonder is Ewing would consider bring back Esherick for recruiting. Eshrick did bring in the 2 under the radar cornerstones for the back to back runs to the Sweet 16 and Final 4.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 8, 2018 10:35:33 GMT -5
This will not be an option based upon my understanding of how the NIT selects teams. NIT selection process is heavily weighted toward teams hat are good draws at the gate or media favorites. I think the name Georgetown name, Patrick Ewing’s stature as a player and the feel good story of him coming back to lead his old team creates enough interest to get fans in the stand and give the pundits something to talk about. So the Hoyas fit the bill . The NIT selection process hasn’t worked this way for years. Check out the NIT thread. We have no chance.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 8, 2018 10:37:50 GMT -5
It is incredible to me that not every single poster on this board at this point cannot agree that the OOC schedule this year was a complete and utter disaster on every front. Do you really believe that the OOC schedule gave us the ability to “hang” with the schools that we choked away half a dozen games against? Dude....this was the expected outcome whether we played a soft OOC of not. We play the schedule you want and we are 4-26, we look like Pitt, and we won’t be able to land a single G** D*** recruit worth having. You are missing my point. I have no idea whether the BE season would have gone differently had we played a tougher OOC schedule. But I contest the notion that the OOC in any way helped with what little success we had in the BE season (whether the one good week of SH/Butler or being able to play competitively in many games). In my opinion the OOC schedule had not a single redeeming quality (and as an aside, I was at in person every single one of those games in Nov/DC - every one). I am just surprised not everyone agrees with that and there are still people suggesting the OOC schedule helped in some way or another. And you, like most schedule defenders, completely miss the mark about what I would have rather had. Not a JT III pre-BE slate, but rather just a schedule that was not a huge, embarrassing news story itself for the first two months of the season. Agree to disagree I guess.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 8, 2018 10:43:03 GMT -5
It is incredible to me that not every single poster on this board at this point cannot agree that the OOC schedule this year was a complete and utter disaster on every front. Do you really believe that the OOC schedule gave us the ability to “hang” with the schools that we choked away half a dozen games against? Choked away half a dozen games? Hmmmm. We have no backcourt. Think about that for a second. We have no backcourt. A major college basketball program that lacks a backcourt. And that is no offense to the guys we have. They are all good guys and give it their all. We have 2 guys on our roster that would start for other schools in our conference. Outside of that, the other major contributors are 2 true freshman who our coach, in a pinch, was able to land them in a brief recruiting window due to his late hire. Thankfully, those 2 true freshman were able to contribute at times during the season. That is it. The rest of the guys are role players, who most likely wouldn't see playing time at most major schools. That is what our coach had to work with. So yeah, since the cupboard is bare and the competitive self-esteem of the program is low after two consecutive losing seasons, you make a light schedule to acclimate yourself to the college game and get your players acclimated to your program and how you want to play. The fact that we were even in the "choked" games and had leads given those circumstances is a testament to coach Ewing. I thought PE actually did a tremendous job this year other than the OOC schedule, and I am very excited with him at the helm going forward. My post was in direct response to your comment suggesting that perhaps the horrific OOC was responsible for our 5 wins in the BE. My opinion is that it was not, in any way.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 8, 2018 10:52:31 GMT -5
Game was a microcosm of our season, so the outcome wasn't surprising. We came out strong and looked like we had a plan to execute. Marcus and Jessie, as they've done all year long, carried us offensively and kept us ahead despite the constant poor decision making by our guards. And again, it fell apart in the second half as the other team adjusted and we had no clue how to counter. You look at the inside-the-huddle look ins and a stark contrast between instruction. Ewing telling his guys to keep going... about 7-8x. Mullin telling his guys specifically to get up on Marcus and Pickett and force them to put the ball on the floor. Now, I'm not saying Chris Mullin is anything even resembling a good coach, but one set of instructions was obviously more helpful than the other. For the people pining for a switch to zone just to offer a different look... again I ask, what in the flying you know what is Louis Orr doing on the staff? This is where he's supposed to bring value. I still don't understand why he was brought on. I understand the guys gave a decent effort; it's been better than in years past. And there is a lot of room for returning guys to grow and build upon this year. But I am definitely happy to see some new blood, even if unproven, come in at guard. Just way too many wild out of control plays from Mulmore and Dickerson not just tonight, but all year. I'm done watching them pick up their dribble 45 feet from the basket, driving into traffic to throw up prayers, etc. While I'm high on the frosh like Blair, Pickett and Walker (who had a pretty good game lost in tonight's disaster), I'm left wondering if Mosely is ever going to be a meaningful rotation player on a good team. For a guy who was coached by Bob Hurley, the fundamentals have just gone out the window with this kid. If we can cut out half of the "oops, I forgot to dribble" turnovers we committed this year (and Mosely had a bunch of them), we will add about 2-3 wins next year alone. Time for Pat to not only do work on the recruiting trail, but go back to the drawing board and see where he can improve his in-game tactics. Yes, we need better talent, but the staff cannot continue to punt multiple games a year moving forward because they don't know how to come off an initial game plan and make some in-game adjustments to counter the moves of opposing coaches who know what they're doing. Orr is a joke. Complete failure as a college coach. His only qualification is that he’s a friend of Patrick Ewing’s. Much like Ewing’s only qualification is that he’s a friend of JT2. Our program has become an embarrassment. I blame JT2 and, to a lesser extent, DeGioia, who clearly call all the shots based on emotion and comfort rather than reason. To detect the true embarrassment, one must turn his gaze inward.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 8, 2018 11:28:39 GMT -5
Speaking of recruiting, I wonder is Ewing would consider bring back Esherick for recruiting. Eshrick did bring in the 2 under the radar cornerstones for the back to back runs to the Sweet 16 and Final 4. While Craig wishes Patrick all the best in his college coaching career, this isn't happening. Craig is happy with his teaching at GMU and doing color commentary. He's not about to get on an airplane to do the recruiting grind.
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 8, 2018 13:05:28 GMT -5
For what it's worth, St. John's is playing Xavier close in the first half. They don't seem likely to win but are playing well. I had really wanted to see us get another chance at Xavier.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Mar 8, 2018 13:47:54 GMT -5
Im not going to argue that much, and Im not sure why people are either. I mean, aren't we all saying we stunk? Yes, we are all saying we stunk. But some of us are limiting the stink to the "talent on the floor", when the stink resonates much deeper. Coaching always plays a role in the success or failure of a college b-ball program, and Ewing is no exception. Those who say he shows promise, me included, and were encouraged by what they saw are not immunizing him this year. But surely it is premature to say he stinks after one year and with a roster in shambles. Unless, of course, there is another agenda.
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 8, 2018 14:29:40 GMT -5
Yes, we are all saying we stunk. But some of us are limiting the stink to the "talent on the floor", when the stink resonates much deeper. Coaching always plays a role in the success or failure of a college b-ball program, and Ewing is no exception. Those who say he shows promise, me included, and were encouraged by what they saw are not immunizing him this year. But surely it is premature to say he stinks after one year and with a roster in shambles. Unless, of course, there is another agenda. I think this is a level-headed and accurate take. Everyone likes to talk about adjustments, but Ewing didn't have players to "adjust" this year. He had an assortment of role players who were largely unreliable from game to game. You can't adjust with that. You need different pieces and lineups. For what it's worth, the crowd here in NY has largely been approving of Ewing, though there is also a look of sympathy when they see me Georgetown cap and note just how far we have fallen.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Mar 8, 2018 14:56:34 GMT -5
From the GU vs SJU article thread came this quote from Jesse Govan, “I don’t think it was their bigs. I think we just couldn’t stop the drive,” Govan said. “Their guards were getting into the paint, and I wasn’t altering enough shots. They were just blowing right by us. It’s like nobody was down there. They were getting wide-open layups, pretty much, and and-ones.”
It is really good he is seeing this, understanding, or just saying this. A decent chunk of this falls on him and I am hoping he uses this as motivation to make a big improvement in the off season.
Perhaps watching Bradley Hayes tapes on how to defend the middle would help. When Govan sharing time with Hayes the other team didn't enter the paint much as they knew it would rarely end with points. Hayes on defense was decent and if Govan could get to that level it would help. If Govan could get to Bomba level, look out.
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