GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 7, 2018 21:43:20 GMT -5
Why should we have expected this team to be dramaticallly worse defensively than it was last year? Well apparently according to some people if the talent level is not good, there is no adjustments a coach could make offensive or defensively I guess you have your pre game plan and it either works or not. Other teams can make adjustments too and when they do, and if their players are better, they will likely win. You sort of had to know that after scoring 48 points in the first half and shooting 60 percent, but only being up 6, things were not going to go all that well in the second half. I mean, you know this because it has happened like 10 times this year.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 7, 2018 21:45:12 GMT -5
Because we had bad players. Look, don't get me wrong, Im not happy with anything, but I think it was pretty obvious we would not be good this year, no? Stj had a worse team and they won... they worked harder and got everything they wanted at the rim. We continue to be soft and slow on defense. No one helps, no one Talent wise this is a middle of BE team but we underplayed our level of talent with little to no coaching adjustments and no fire from the players... why no zone? EVEN FOR 2 MINUTES... horrible all around. I have zero expectations for next year because I saw zero progress this year. Im not going to argue that much, and Im not sure why people are either. I mean, aren't we all saying we stunk?
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 7, 2018 21:46:40 GMT -5
Stj had a worse team and they won... they worked harder and got everything they wanted at the rim. We continue to be soft and slow on defense. No one helps, no one Talent wise this is a middle of BE team but we underplayed our level of talent with little to no coaching adjustments and no fire from the players... why no zone? EVEN FOR 2 MINUTES... horrible all around. I have zero expectations for next year because I saw zero progress this year. Im not going to argue that much, and Im not sure why people are either. I mean, aren't we all saying we stunk? Talent wise we ended up about where we should have in the big east - 5 wins and 8th.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,357
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 7, 2018 21:46:46 GMT -5
I went from cautiously optimistic up to the Cuse game, to then thinking Patrick was over his head after the Nova home loss, back to optimistic and thinking we were ahead of schedule after the mini two game winning streak against Butler and Seton Hall, to now after 5 losses in a row not really sure. We finished 5-13 and a first round exit again. We lost Peak and Pryor and replaced them with Dickerson, Blair, and Pickett. Is the season a success? I don’t know. I guess tonight it feels like we met the very low expectations for the talent level I thought we had. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes pretty much will make or break Patrick. I think he did his best with JTIII’s players and what he was able to cobble together for the this year’s freshman class. It won’t be fair to measure until he’s had 2-3 recruiting cycles so I’ll reserve judgement until then. On the plus side we saw great improvement in MD and JG and Pat gets credit for that. But conversely our defense was abysmal, and this was actually the one thing I expected Pat to improve day 1. I guess bottom line is I’m neither optimistic or pessimistic, just kinda feeling-less, which honestly is tougher to stomach but I guess after PE’s first year, it’s where we are. I’ll add that I think we need to really explore transfer options as the best way to jump start the re-shaping of the roster. We have a compelling story and ample playing time to sell guys looking for a one year home.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,810
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 7, 2018 21:47:17 GMT -5
I went from cautiously optimistic up to the Cuse game, to then thinking Patrick was over his head after the Nova home loss, back to optimistic and thinking we were ahead of schedule after the mini two game winning streak against Butler and Seton Hall, to now after 5 losses in a row not really sure. We finished 5-13 and a first round exit again. We lost Peak and Pryor and replaced them with Dickerson, Blair, and Pickett. Is the season a success? I don’t know. I guess tonight it feels like we met the very low expectations for the talent level I thought we had. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes pretty much will make or break Patrick. I think he did his best with JTIII’s players and what he was able to cobble together for the ‘17 class. It won’t be fair to measure until he’s had 2-3 recruiting cycles so I’ll reserve judgement until then. For discussion: this team might be, all things considered, worse than 2016-17.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 7, 2018 21:47:24 GMT -5
We've been getting by with a lot of heart throughout the season.
Let's be honest, we aren't good.
We had grind it out games with the first 2 games against St. Johns's. St. John's did beat Duke.
We are only good in spurts, but since we can't defend, it exacerbates the problem.
Not only does Ewing have to recruit heavily, he needs a defensive coordinator.
That should be the priority.
Some thoughts:
Walker is limited for us, but he brings something to the table nobody else on this roster has....some physicality inside. Neither Marcus or Govan are bangers inside. That hurts us defensively.
Despite their lack of presence inside defensively, both Govan and Derrickson have great shooting touch from outside for big men. It is truly amazing.
If only we had guards who could shoot like that.
We thought it would be bad this year, and it was better than expected if we are being honest.
Offensively, we just lack depth. No backcourt. No depth. Not much you can coach around with that.
Defensively, yes we can recruit more athleticism, but I think there is something schematically we could do different. It can't be this easy to score on us. That is a major concern going forward.
Go Hoyas!
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 7, 2018 21:50:22 GMT -5
Why should we have expected this team to be dramaticallly worse defensively than it was last year? Well apparently according to some people if the talent level is not good, there is no adjustments a coach could make offensive or defensively I guess you have your pre game plan and it either works or not. Even playing zone you have to be able to stop dribble penetration. We couldn’t do that all night. Much like the press, he probably could have attempted it for a few possessions and see what happened. It wouldn’t have been any worse than our man to man defense but hindsight is 20/20. I definitely saw some offensive adjustments in the second half but there was also some poor execution, costly turnovers, and bad decision making. Jessie missed some shots, Jagan and Jahvon missed some shots, Pickett had a few turnovers. All those things factor in to gumming up the works.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,391
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Post by drquigley on Mar 7, 2018 21:50:42 GMT -5
Why are we doing this to ourselves? We knew when the year started we wouldn't be very good. We play a few good games, we get our hopes up and suddenly Jamorko Pickett and Dejuan Blair are going to be stars, Japan Mosley will turn into Jonathan Wallace next year, Kaleb Johnson is a silent assassin, and (now) McLung will set the world on fire. Look, we have a very long way to go. It will take at least 2 more years and two great (and I mean great) recruiting classes to be competitive in this league. So let's stop the whining, move away from the ledge, and enjoy the upcoming baseball season.
BTW, if you really want to rant, become a SJU fan and ask how SJU can have this much talent, beat Nova and Duke back to back, yet finish 9th in the BE and basically have to run the table to get an NCAA tourney bid.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 7, 2018 21:51:45 GMT -5
I went from cautiously optimistic up to the Cuse game, to then thinking Patrick was over his head after the Nova home loss, back to optimistic and thinking we were ahead of schedule after the mini two game winning streak against Butler and Seton Hall, to now after 5 losses in a row not really sure. We finished 5-13 and a first round exit again. We lost Peak and Pryor and replaced them with Dickerson, Blair, and Pickett. Is the season a success? I don’t know. I guess tonight it feels like we met the very low expectations for the talent level I thought we had. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes pretty much will make or break Patrick. I think he did his best with JTIII’s players and what he was able to cobble together for the ‘17 class. It won’t be fair to measure until he’s had 2-3 recruiting cycles so I’ll reserve judgement until then. For discussion: this team might be, all things considered, worse than 2016-17. It’s not open for discussion because it’s not even close. This team was absolutely worse than 2016-17. Pryor would have gone for 40+ alone against this team.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 7, 2018 21:51:49 GMT -5
Well apparently according to some people if the talent level is not good, there is no adjustments a coach could make offensive or defensively I guess you have your pre game plan and it either works or not. Other teams can make adjustments too and when they do, and if their players are better, they will likely win. You sort of had to know that after scoring 48 points in the first half and shooting 60 percent, but only being up 6, things were not going to go all that well in the second half. I mean, you know this because it has happened like 10 times this year. I am not disputing what you are saying. We disagree on if anything could have been done defensively to slow down St. Johns especially in the 2nd half. St. Johns scoring went from 42 in the 1st half to 46 in the 2nd half
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Post by wisconsinhoya on Mar 7, 2018 21:52:27 GMT -5
I went from cautiously optimistic up to the Cuse game, to then thinking Patrick was over his head after the Nova home loss, back to optimistic and thinking we were ahead of schedule after the mini two game winning streak against Butler and Seton Hall, to now after 5 losses in a row not really sure. We finished 5-13 and a first round exit again. We lost Peak and Pryor and replaced them with Dickerson, Blair, and Pickett. Is the season a success? I don’t know. I guess tonight it feels like we met the very low expectations for the talent level I thought we had. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes pretty much will make or break Patrick. I think he did his best with JTIII’s players and what he was able to cobble together for the ‘17 class. It won’t be fair to measure until he’s had 2-3 recruiting cycles so I’ll reserve judgement until then. For discussion: this team might be, all things considered, worse than 2016-17. With a considerably worse roster.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 7, 2018 21:54:34 GMT -5
Why are we doing this to ourselves? We knew when the year started we wouldn't be very good. We play a few good games, we get our hopes up and suddenly Jamorko Pickett and Dejuan Blair are going to be stars, Japan Mosley will turn into Jonathan Wallace next year, Kaleb Johnson is a silent assassin, and (now) McLung will set the world on fire. Look, we have a very long way to go. It will take at least 2 more years and two great (and I mean great) recruiting classes to be competitive in this league. So let's stop the whining, move away from the ledge, and enjoy the upcoming baseball season. BTW, if you really want to rant, become a SJU fan and ask how SJU can have this much talent, beat Nova and Duke back to back, yet finish 9th in the BE and basically have to run the table to get an NCAA tourney bid. Really, and this is Mullin's 3rd year.
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Post by goyahoya69 on Mar 7, 2018 21:59:47 GMT -5
I went from cautiously optimistic up to the Cuse game, to then thinking Patrick was over his head after the Nova home loss, back to optimistic and thinking we were ahead of schedule after the mini two game winning streak against Butler and Seton Hall, to now after 5 losses in a row not really sure. We finished 5-13 and a first round exit again. We lost Peak and Pryor and replaced them with Dickerson, Blair, and Pickett. Is the season a success? I don’t know. I guess tonight it feels like we met the very low expectations for the talent level I thought we had. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes pretty much will make or break Patrick. I think he did his best with JTIII’s players and what he was able to cobble together for the ‘17 class. It won’t be fair to measure until he’s had 2-3 recruiting cycles so I’ll reserve judgement until then. For discussion: this team might be, all things considered, worse than 2016-17. Absolutely, positively not.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,267
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 7, 2018 21:59:56 GMT -5
Horrible second half. Didn't help that Blair and Pickett combined to shoot 0-12 for the game, 0-9 on threes. But that does not mean they are bad players, it just means they both had terrible games. I still expect better from them next year.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 7, 2018 22:01:32 GMT -5
Other teams can make adjustments too and when they do, and if their players are better, they will likely win. You sort of had to know that after scoring 48 points in the first half and shooting 60 percent, but only being up 6, things were not going to go all that well in the second half. I mean, you know this because it has happened like 10 times this year. I am not disputing what you are saying. We disagree on if anything could have been done defensively to slow down St. Johns especially in the 2nd half. St. Johns scoring went from 42 in the 1st half to 46 in the 2nd half You’re right in that maybe we could have tried something differently defensively. We actually did by adding the full court press but that really didn’t work. We could have tried a zone, it likely would not have been any worse than our man to man defense. But Let’s say we go zone, it doesn’t work, and they still score at will, I’d bet my house that people would be arguing about why we went zone. All these armchair quarterbacks in here.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 7, 2018 22:04:04 GMT -5
Thus ends the easiest season of betting on Georgetown ever 😥
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nbhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 418
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Post by nbhoya on Mar 7, 2018 22:06:20 GMT -5
PE just said we’d play in the NIT if invited. Is there really any chance of that?
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 7, 2018 22:10:38 GMT -5
I went from cautiously optimistic up to the Cuse game, to then thinking Patrick was over his head after the Nova home loss, back to optimistic and thinking we were ahead of schedule after the mini two game winning streak against Butler and Seton Hall, to now after 5 losses in a row not really sure. We finished 5-13 and a first round exit again. We lost Peak and Pryor and replaced them with Dickerson, Blair, and Pickett. Is the season a success? I don’t know. I guess tonight it feels like we met the very low expectations for the talent level I thought we had. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes pretty much will make or break Patrick. I think he did his best with JTIII’s players and what he was able to cobble together for the ‘17 class. It won’t be fair to measure until he’s had 2-3 recruiting cycles so I’ll reserve judgement until then. For discussion: this team might be, all things considered, worse than 2016-17. There should be no surprise given the swap we made between LJ/Pryor with the freshnmen. Who thought we would be better than last year? Remember, last year's team was picked to finish 5th and ended up with the same conference record as this team, picked to finish 9th. At least this team played up to its talent, you cannot say that for last year's squad. Much less disappointing.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 7, 2018 22:11:46 GMT -5
For discussion: this team might be, all things considered, worse than 2016-17. There should be no surprise given the swap we made between LJ/Pryor with the freshnmen. Who thought we would be better than last year? Remember, last year's team was picked to finish 5th and ended up with the same conference record as this team, picked to finish 9th. At least this team played up to its talent, you cannot say that for last year's squad. Much less disappointing. Absolutely right.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 7, 2018 22:13:30 GMT -5
i write this with a heavy heart, and knowing that I will likely not post again for a while. there is absolutely no reason that we should have lost this game. the fault lies on everyone, from ewing to the players. our starting lineup consists of mulmore, the 2nd leading scorer in all of JUCO 2 years ago. kaleb, a top 100, 4-star recruit. pickett, a top 60, 4-star recruit. derrickson, a junior who at one time was a top 10 recruit, faltered, only to come back as all big east 2nd team. and govan, the best gtown big since greg monroe who just played his ass off and clearly wanted this more than anyone on that team. we had this lineup lose to a team who had .. shamorie ponds, a top 50 recruit and clearly a very good player. but then who? justin simon .. a 5 star recruit who had to transfer out of arizona to find minutes. tariq owens, a scrub who i never would have known had gtown not recruited him a bit while he was in high school. and .. that's it. i can't name another st. john's player. they are a team of garbage who were playing at MSG and wanted it so bad that their effort outpowered their own skill. this is a terrible loss. i selfishly don't want an NIT invite (not sure if .500 teams can even be invited) just so that big pat isn't marred with a sub-.500 inaugural coaching season. both gtown and st. john's made great strides this season, but man did we so epically fold in the 2nd half. this should be a no-brainer, but there should literally NEVER have been a single possession in this season where neither govan nor derrickson touched the ball. that is absolutely inexcusable. they are the 2 who give us any realistic chance of winning any single game, whether it is against xavier or depaul. all i wanted was this one win, and then even if we got trashed by xavier tomorrow, i could at least say that we finished 8th in BE this year and exceeded expectations (think we were predicted to finish 9th), AND provided a framework of basketball play that resembled modern NBA play. a win in tonight's game is all it took for me to consider this season an undeniable success, but we were robbed of that. now i am left with a very ambivalent feeling for this season. i am pretty sure that as the next week(s) go by, i will be able to put on some hoya glasses and feel better about this season, but tonight is not that night. i'm sad, ashamed, embarrassed, and angry all at the same time. that's what gtown basketball does to me. and yet, i wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. i know that we'll get "back to the mountaintop" sometime in my lifetime, and that this struggle will only make that success sweeter. just wish i didn't have to take so many gut punches along the way. love you all. This is alarming consider Johnson is looking at coming off the bench next year and neither Johnson or Mulmore have lived up to the hype. Also I would say Govan is the best big man since Henry Sims Govan and Derrickson was 69 & 87 Top 100 ESPN recruits respectively and I thought adding McClung could get the team to the NIT but I do not see him ranked as an Top 100 ESPN recruit
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